CBS-FM Audio Tweaks?

[Tom Wells]

Seeing such strong opinions made me see what the online stream is like.
Sure hope the air product sounds different from the stream.

Music:
This is smashed within an inch of its life.

Someone's attempt to be loud has brought WAY too much audible "gasping".

I'm having a hard time with the "brightness". which is really making some sogs sizzle.

This is actually kinda painfully excessive with the treble, and the compression has removed every last iota of dynamics.

I'd sure love to hear a broadcast air aircheck.

The reverb being on the DJ and spots only is weird and it reminds me me much of the old WABC style.
( A litttle longer timing, and a little more in your face than I like, but that's the east coast way)

It would sound bigger maybe if the music library were looked at critically. I notice a much "bigger" effect in sound on spots.
I'd be happy with the sound of live elements, but the music so far has been a difficult listen.

 

[erwin33]

With this in mind that the off the air signal sounds totally different in comparision with the internet stream. I thought that the internet stream is processed with by an Optimod 1100PC card.

 

[erwin33]

With this in mind that the off the air signal sounds totally different in comparision with the internet stream. I thought that the internet stream is processed by an Optimod 1100PC card.

 

[erwin33]

Sounds like all treble is filtered out on FM.

 

[Tom Wells]

Sounds like all treble is filtered out on FM.

And I might really like the way it sounds on the FM, if that's true.
There's a lot of treble to lose before it could ever be a problem.

 

[radiorob2.0]

The beauty of the DSP box is IF you drive it into the wall there is a "reverse" by simply going back to a factory pre-set.[/b] However I did come across an early DSP box where someone blew out the factory presets (WTF?) That took more effort.

Knowing the quality of CBS I'm sure there are multi-layer issues involved as they are not ones to sit around wringing hands...

In that case, just find the preset(s) from Mike Erickson on the 8500 and walk away. Of course, from what I remember Mike had a few boxes in front of the Optimod - hopefully they are still in line.

CBS Radio does have great engineers - the sound of K-Earth 101 & KOOL 94.5 is proof of that. But the longer this goes on, the more it seems the "multi layered" issues are people related rather than equipment.

The CBS-FM processing topic was brought up on a Facebook user group. Mike Erickson mentioned after he left the CBS engineering hierarchy erased his setting and decided to start from scratch.

 

[erwin33]

The beauty of the DSP box is IF you drive it into the wall there is a "reverse" by simply going back to a factory pre-set.[/b] However I did come across an early DSP box where someone blew out the factory presets (WTF?) That took more effort.

Knowing the quality of CBS I'm sure there are multi-layer issues involved as they are not ones to sit around wringing hands...

In that case, just find the preset(s) from Mike Erickson on the 8500 and walk away. Of course, from what I remember Mike had a few boxes in front of the Optimod - hopefully they are still in line.

CBS Radio does have great engineers - the sound of K-Earth 101 & KOOL 94.5 is proof of that. But the longer this goes on, the more it seems the "multi layered" issues are people related rather than equipment.

The CBS-FM processing topic was brought up on a Facebook user group. Mike Erickson mentioned after he left the CBS engineering hierarchy erased his setting and decided to start from scratch.

Which group is that on Facebook?

B.t.w. from scratch and they still can't find the right way...how foolish to do that.

 

[LenoxAve]

There's a lot of treble to lose before it could ever be a problem.

Oh, trust us, they've lost all the treble, and it is indeed a problem. I wasn't being sarcastic when I mentioned that the music on the AM oldies station from Morristown sounded crisper and fuller than the music on CBS-FM.

No other NYC FM station comes close to sounding this bad. Most stations in the suburbs sound better as well.

 

[RadioMan203]

My only question is, does it really take a multi-thousand dollar processor to make things sound THAT bad?

I've heard non-comm stations sound better using a Behringer musician's compressor to feed their transmitter.

 

[radiorob2.0]

The beauty of the DSP box is IF you drive it into the wall there is a "reverse" by simply going back to a factory pre-set.[/b] However I did come across an early DSP box where someone blew out the factory presets (WTF?) That took more effort.

Knowing the quality of CBS I'm sure there are multi-layer issues involved as they are not ones to sit around wringing hands...

In that case, just find the preset(s) from Mike Erickson on the 8500 and walk away. Of course, from what I remember Mike had a few boxes in front of the Optimod - hopefully they are still in line.

CBS Radio does have great engineers - the sound of K-Earth 101 & KOOL 94.5 is proof of that. But the longer this goes on, the more it seems the "multi layered" issues are people related rather than equipment.

The CBS-FM processing topic was brought up on a Facebook user group. Mike Erickson mentioned after he left the CBS engineering hierarchy erased his setting and decided to start from scratch.

Which group is that on Facebook?

B.t.w. from scratch and they still can't find the right way...how foolish to do that.

It was the "I Take Pictures of Transmitter Sites" page.

Screwing up a good thing isn't new. I worked at a station that inherited an Unity 2001 from a station we owned but was on the market to sell. The PD at that station was an audiophile and understood competitive audio had that box sounding wonderful in a much larger market. When it arrived the former PD told me what preset he used and for a moment the station sounded amazing. That was until the chief engineer and his staff decided they could do better. By the time they were finished the audio was flat and lacked low end. They also erased the setting of the PD that had that box sounding great. Even though other noticed the audio being worse that it was with the old boxes it didn't matter because the engineering department's spectrum analyzer said it was good audio.

 

[erwin33]

The beauty of the DSP box is IF you drive it into the wall there is a "reverse" by simply going back to a factory pre-set.[/b] However I did come across an early DSP box where someone blew out the factory presets (WTF?) That took more effort.

Knowing the quality of CBS I'm sure there are multi-layer issues involved as they are not ones to sit around wringing hands...

In that case, just find the preset(s) from Mike Erickson on the 8500 and walk away. Of course, from what I remember Mike had a few boxes in front of the Optimod - hopefully they are still in line.

CBS Radio does have great engineers - the sound of K-Earth 101 & KOOL 94.5 is proof of that. But the longer this goes on, the more it seems the "multi layered" issues are people related rather than equipment.

The CBS-FM processing topic was brought up on a Facebook user group. Mike Erickson mentioned after he left the CBS engineering hierarchy erased his setting and decided to start from scratch.

Which group is that on Facebook?

B.t.w. from scratch and they still can't find the right way...how foolish to do that.

It was the "I Take Pictures of Transmitter Sites" page.

Ok thanks. Still searching for that specific topic in that group but can't find it.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

My only question is, does it really take a multi-thousand dollar processor to make things sound THAT bad?

I've heard non-comm stations sound better using a Behringer musician's compressor to feed their transmitter.

Funny you mention that. HERE is an archived post describing how a $75 Behringer compressor was the secret ingredient in WCBS-FM's airchain, back when it sounded good.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Yeah, Mike could tell you more, but it was a two band Behringer that was tweaked up by him. Gave it that "snap" that was in the sound of CBS-FM. It was between the Ariane and the Optimod.

There are a LOT of things you can tune on an 8500. Plenty of ways to get in to trouble if you don't know what you're doing.

I don't want him to give away too much of the special sauce, but Mike, was the AGC defeated on the 8500 going straight to the multiband?

The rest of the settings he should sell back to them at a premium. It's so... lifeless. No pop, sizzle or excitement. A very mild amount of artistic pumping can actually help that format because that mimics how the songs sounded when they were first played, but without the drawbacks of the severe pumping that would have been found "back in the day". Same with the reverb. A little bit of "darker" reverb goes a long way. This time around it was way too bright and the sibilant sounds would trigger it. Those should be eq'ed out in the sidechain so they don't trigger the reverb.

 

[WNTIRadio]

An email from the guy who made it sound so good:

The Behringer MDX-4000 was before the Ariane, like a 2 band Compellor and the Ariane was set more to do dynamic EQ than AGC. The key was defeating the AGC in the 8500. This opened up the sound a great deal. You had to allow lots of headroom on the 8500 input with its AGC off, but it was very manageable. You just ran it a little colder than usual.

The 5 band in the Optimod did very little G/R vs what most factory presets called for. The 5 band got more aggressive as you went up in frequency. Highs were very fast to overcome the pre-emphasis placement pre-limiter in Optimods. Most times Band 5 wasn't even into gain reduction. Bass was kept slow and smooth and midrange just fast enough to recover talkups and transitions quickly but not so fast as to smash everything to hell. That's where careful tweaking took place. Also, bands 4 & 5 were uncoupled while band 1 was coupled 100%. Stereo enhancement was 222 mode and only slight and the Ariane was operated in left/right mode and not sum/diff. Unless it ended up in the dumpster the Behringer should still be in the building. Everything stayed behind after I left