CBS FM Countdown; Disgraceful Omission!!!

[Seltzer]

no whining, just discussing...
when CBS FM switched back , I went on record on this board predicting their return to #1 on Day 1 of the switch back
...and was laughed at...
I'm delighted at the success, the sound of the station, etc.
as a fan, I'm allowed to discuss what does and does not please me, it does not take away from my pleasure in listening to the station and reveling in their current #1 status,as I called it early,and love rubbing it in to the proper parties.....
lighten up,big boy,learn some motown history on a 'hot hot hot' summer day

CBS FM sounds great. But let's not get too crazy about winning one month. CBS FM will need to make this a multiple month party before it can walk in LTW's shadow.

OGL knocked off B 101 in Philly for one month last July, and hasn't repeated that feat since.

 

[Silkie]

no whining, just discussing...
when CBS FM switched back , I went on record on this board predicting their return to #1 on Day 1 of the switch back
...and was laughed at...
I'm delighted at the success, the sound of the station, etc.
as a fan, I'm allowed to discuss what does and does not please me, it does not take away from my pleasure in listening to the station and reveling in their current #1 status,as I called it early,and love rubbing it in to the proper parties.....
lighten up,big boy,learn some motown history on a 'hot hot hot' summer day

CBS FM sounds great. But let's not get too crazy about winning one month. CBS FM will need to make this a multiple month party before it can walk in LTW's shadow.

OGL knocked off B 101 in Philly for one month last July, and hasn't repeated that feat since.

Given all the publicity, it would seem they are continuing the run.

 

[davideduardo]

CBS FM sounds great. But let's not get too crazy about winning one month. CBS FM will need to make this a multiple month party before it can walk in LTW's shadow.

OGL knocked off B 101 in Philly for one month last July, and hasn't repeated that feat since.

The real issue is that the CBS FM is in the top 5 in 25-54 for many books. Ad buys are generally not one station deep, so if the higher end of 25-54 is being bought at all, CBS Fm will be considered.

Differences in audience size are compensated for by pricing of spots and value added proposals. As long as a station is near the top in the desired age groups or some major subset of them and prices competitively, it has a good chance of making the buy. It is definitely not necessary to be #1 12+ from the operator's point of view.

In PPM the numbers are so tight that month to month changes in rank are not significant. I was looking at Chicago the other day, and the difference between station #11 and Station #20 is less than half a share point in sales demos.

And, finally, being even close to WBEB in Philly is quite something. WBEB is one of the best run stations in the world, and a formidable competitor. They set a high standard for radio in that market, and the market is better because of their presence.

 

[adma]

Nobody died over a missed song, and everyone has little secret favorites that nobody else seems to like (mine is The Sylkie and You've Got To Hide Your Love Away), so the important thing as you well say is to appreciate what the station does, not whine about what it does not do or how banal and "Franklin Mint" the selections are.

However, because of how the media and cultural picture has changed, it isn't quite the same kind of audience as yesteryear. It's like claiming today's talk-radio marketplace is the same as yesterday's full-service AM marketplace...

 

[lalumia]

by the way, in the past hour of this saturday afternoon, CBS FM played
River Deep Mountain High-Supremes & 4 Tops

 

[Silkie]

by the way, in the past hour of this saturday afternoon, CBS FM played
River Deep Mountain High-Supremes & 4 Tops

The reason I am not in radio as an announcer is because I would have played it and then announced, "There, now shut the heck up about it already!" Then again I might have used similar terminology to Inetta the Moodsetta in Alabama. ;D

 

[lalumia]

lol......good one.....

 

[davideduardo]

However, because of how the media and cultural picture has changed, it isn't quite the same kind of audience as yesteryear. It's like claiming today's talk-radio marketplace is the same as yesterday's full-service AM marketplace...

That example is stictly a generational situation. The decline and death of most full service AMs is directly related to the ageing and death of their listener base. For decades before they began disappearing or changing, these AMs found the average age of their listeners increase to the point where most listeners were outside the sales demographics.

The quintessential full service AM, WGN in Chicago, is now outside the top 20 stations in 25-54 when they are outside baseball season... most like WGN are now gone, so examples do not abound.

AM talk stations are also ageing... but they find salvation by moving to FM, something full service stations never succeeded in doing.

 

[lalumia]

AM radio in NY seems to be doing just fine, especially WCBS AM and WINS

 

[davideduardo]

AM radio in NY seems to be doing just fine, especially WCBS AM and WINS

There are a couple of AMs in NY doing well because New York, unlike most of the top 100 markets, actually has 5 or 6 AMs that fully cover the market day and night. So about 22% of NY listening is to AM; of course, 78% is not. And in the under-55 demos, the percentage of listening to AM is much smaller.

If you look at Washington, DC, where not a single AM covers the whole market, AM shares are less than 8% and in the under-55's more on the order of 4%. Since only a small number of markets (Chicago, LA, San Francisco for example) have more than one or two viable AMs, in most places AM listening is very low overall and even lower in the younger demos.

Returning to the NYC discussion, my statement was that AM full service formats declined because the people who liked thast kind of format aged. The same is happening in NY with nearly all AM programming. WINS has just over half 55+ listeners, and with WCBS it's nearly 50%. Only WFAN makes the top 10 consistently in 25-54, and then only in Baseball season. The news stations can pop up if there is a major long-lasting news event. Otherwise, AM listening in general is decreasing with each passing year.

 

[lalumia]

well,perhaps part of AM's decline has to do with what is being offered on AM;
right wing gab and news;
not exactly a grab for the youth market....lol..

 

[adma]

However, because of how the media and cultural picture has changed, it isn't quite the same kind of audience as yesteryear. It's like claiming today's talk-radio marketplace is the same as yesterday's full-service AM marketplace...

That example is stictly a generational situation. The decline and death of most full service AMs is directly related to the ageing and death of their listener base. For decades before they began disappearing or changing, these AMs found the average age of their listeners increase to the point where most listeners were outside the sales demographics.

Not quite so strictly generational: we're also dealing with a qualitative slide--at least, if you define "quality" according to intellectual and cultural caliber. (Though when it comes to colon-blow/Goldline-style ad-buyer's audience efficiency, maybe you could rather cynically call it a qualitative rise. Sure, it's a sleazy way of looking at it; but no different from payola rackets of yore, I suppose you'd say.)

Put it this way; it's like suggesting that just as 1985's ideal oldies audience identified with 20-year-old Beach Boys records, its 2010 equivalent would similarly identify with 20-year-old Wilson Phillips records. Yeah, sure. Maybe in yokelville, or among Peter Pan weirdos who hang out in amusement arcades...

 

[lalumia]

hip hop's rise to dominance wiped out those 90s 'oldies'audience, wilson phillips ,technotronic,marky mark and the funky bunch,etc co opted by hip hop...
(and I'm not knocking em, I enjoyed some of those tracks,)...
thus the predicament of retro radio ,and the reason why The Beatles and Mary,Diana and Flo will continue to reign Supreme at oldies radio(or whatever they choose to call it)...

 

[davideduardo]

well,perhaps part of AM's decline has to do with what is being offered on AM;
right wing gab and news;
not exactly a grab for the youth market....lol..

FM stole the audience from the AM "youth appeal" formats three to four decades ago, meaning that two generations have grown up using FM. AM, left without audience, adopted the formats that appealed to those who grew up on the band. Unfortunately, those people are all in their fifties and older now.

Lots of AM stations tried to endure beyond the migration of their listeners to FM. Many tried new formats or different approaches. Listeners did not want music on AM, and even some of the talk formats that were offered were rejected. Ethnic audiences, mistakenly thought to be less attracted to FM, turned out to be the biggest converts... in part because those communities have young median ages and don't have AM traditions of any kind.

So FM eliminated the possibility of AM competing for most formats. And even the staple of talk is migrating in much of the country to FM and finding younger listeners in the process. AM's problem is not programming, it is the technology itself.

 

[John FL]

The real issue is that the CBS FM is in the top 5 in 25-54 for many books. Ad buys are generally not one station deep, so if the higher end of 25-54 is being bought at all, CBS Fm will be considered.

Differences in audience size are compensated for by pricing of spots and value added proposals. As long as a station is near the top in the desired age groups or some major subset of them and prices competitively, it has a good chance of making the buy. It is definitely not necessary to be #1 12+ from the operator's point of view.

David, I'd like to circle back to your comment and I would like to thank you for making it. As a radio enthusiast, I will admit to having spoke out of emotion and what I perceived as common sense. If others guiding radio didn't agree with my view - well then they were the ones misguided - not me. For a guy like me who has been fighting a now 7 year battle about the state of radio, it's good to have facts. Don't let this go to your head, but I have learned a lot from you and I'm willing to have an open mind!

Your words have not only summarized the business of radio very well but if at all possible, I think it even makes me a bigger fan of CBS FM. Many of us were in a state of depression when Jack came to 101.1. But for the business of radio, it was probably figured even with less listeners all the "right ones" would remain and with no talent payroll, CBS FM would represent the current way to operate and it would be a nice little profit center.

Part of the subject line says "disgraceful omission" and when a person thinks of all the music that is forgotten almost everywhere else - that is the real disgrace. There is no doubt CBS Radio didn't bring back the format for old times sake or that they were caring and compasionate people. When you talk about ad buys in the high end of 25-54, I bet that was part of the pitch for opportunity especially with PPM that at the time was still coming.

Many who do the classic hits format as in the case where I live don't engage in special programming, personality or perceived effort. They are just a profit center with little life where the listener is really way down the list of priorities. CBS FM proves there is more than one road to success and they have done it with lots of effort and hard work. There is no denying they have made a significant name for themselves.

If we want to engage in reality, I would bet there are far more operators who would have kept Jack around for the sake of that balance sheet only. Now that's disgraceful. When CBS FM can boast some 4 million listeners and be Top 5 25-54 for quite some time in a very tough and diverse market, all I can is bravo.

 

[radioguy39nj]

well,perhaps part of AM's decline has to do with what is being offered on AM;
right wing gab and news;
not exactly a grab for the youth market....lol..

And even the staple of talk is migrating in much of the country to FM and finding younger listeners in the process. AM's problem is not programming, it is the technology itself.

In markets where news/talk and sports migrated to FM, most had AM stations that didn't cover the market day and night. To date, news/talk and sports has stayed off FM in the the top 3 markets, NY, LA and Chicago, all of whom have several 50 kW AM blasters. I expect that will change eventually.

In SF and DC, the #1 station in both those markets is all-news on FM. CBS' SF simulcast of all-news on 50 kW blaster 740 AM and powerful class B 106.9 FM has been both a ratings and demo success. KCBS has signifcantly increased its ratings with the all-important 25-54 demo. In DC, all-news WTOP increased both its ratings and profitability after Bonneville migrated it from 1500 AM to 103.5 FM. WTOP is now the highest billing station outside of NY, LA and Chicago. 1500 AM has a strong signal, but could barely be received at night in DC's western suburbs.

IMHO, WINS' best chance long-term would be to evolve to a news-based talk format focused on NY and migrate to FM. A News Talk WINS-FM would easily beat WABC, WOR and WNYM, all of whom pay no attention to NY area issues.