Haven't heard CBS-FM in a couple of years, but heard the legendary Scott Shannon had retired and wanted to hear who replaced him and I was shocked. Young sounding guy who was good, but doesn't fit the format. He would sound outstanding on Z100. The music on CBS-FM is way off yet again. They didn't learn their lesson the first time (Jack debacle). The last time it was this unfocused they called Dan Mason back in to fix it. Time to call Dan again, cause CBS-FM is way out in the woods. Didn't hear 60's. Huge mistake as that knocks out The Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys and others that inspired some of todays musical talents. No one wakes up on a new years morning saying "I suddenly don't want to hear songs from 1966 anymore". There are tried and true 60's and 70's titles that younger demos relate too and would strengthen the demos the ad ad agencies are after. A lot of what CBS-FM is playing from the 80's, we couldn't get to test very well as currents. New York was also a market we watched and tltles that left in a hurry in the 80's and 90's on Z100 are now getting substantial airplay. CBS-FM is still doing well, but have been a little wobbly and this change would help strengthen their brand. CALLING DAN MASON!!!!!
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CBS-FM
- Thread starter gavinlex
- Start date
This road has been traveled many times before in this forum and every other forum with an oldies station that's made the transition to classic hits. The young people who like the Beach Boys are extreme outliers, and even the ones who like the Beatles and Stones are in the minority in the age group WCBS-FM is selling to its advertisers. The station is playing exactly what it should be playing: music from the mid/late '80s, the '90s, and the '00s. However the songs did on Z100 30 or 40 years ago is irrelevant; the station is testing them with today's 25-54s and they're doing fine, otherwise they wouldn't be played.
As for Shannon, he lost his fastball years ago and sounded like someone's declining grandfather on air. He obviously didn't identify with, or like, most of the music he was playing.
As for Shannon, he lost his fastball years ago and sounded like someone's declining grandfather on air. He obviously didn't identify with, or like, most of the music he was playing.
Wobbly how? It's been performing extremely well, especially with the demos they want, and sounds great to boot.
If Dan Mason were to come back, he wouldn't touch WCBS, because you don't fix what isn't broken; I get this isn't what you want the station to sound, but it doesn't mean it is "way out in the woods". This is the "New York's Oldies Station" of this era.
Scott's departure and replacement was a big tell as to whether or not he was the boon to their success (spoiler alert: by 2023 he wasn't. Ratings indicated that he wasn't doing bad but he wasn't doing great either), and the station has been as successful if not more successful in that daypart and others.
For the 123rd time: Jack on WCBS-FM got higher 25-54 sales demos than the aged-out 60's based oldies format did at the time. But Jack was dropped anyway, based on the findings about the more current-based CBS gold station in the earlier 2000's. Those findings came from the first PPM tests in Philly where CBS management saw the greater potential for what would be called "classic hits". To avoid someone else taking the perceived-as-greater-potential gold format, they dropped Jack despite the very decent numbers.
And in the "open fields beyond the woods" they have the highest sales demo rating ever. EVER.
No, there are not, and ample and extensive professional music testing proves that.
"Back then" was decades ago. Testing the songs today against today's listeners is what determines playability. We don't care how a song did in 1986... history is for museums.
CBS-FM is not wobbly... it is very stable within a narrow range. But the Nielsen PPM is wobbly, and that is due to all kinds of research-related factors. While that may disturb you, advertisers work on rolling averages in ratings, not individual monthly books. It all smooths out when an agency uses a 4, 6 or even 8 to 10 month average.
The main issue in ratings wobbles is sample size. We have today' sample size because that is as much as stations will pay for. So... we all understand the variables in ratings and expect them. We don't get distressed over movements up and down by as much as a whole point with high rated stations.
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Sadly I heard that Scott had deteriorated but I think CT, you could be a little kinder and compassionate about that. And how in the world do you know what Dan would or wouldn't do? Have you spoke with him about this lately? I had access to Arb ratings at the time of Jack's demise and they had lost a lot of TSL, as you know a lot of people wanted to listen and kept checking back but didn't like what they heard. The numbers had flat lined so I'm not sure where your info is coming from...memory or if you're looking at actual numbers. If so, post them to prove I'm wrong as I very well could be. Also, if a song in the 80's didn't test well and z100 didn't play them, then they would be unfamiliar so it would be extremely safe not to play those titles. I've worked with some of the top consultants in the business and safe is always the way to go. The titles and bands that are classics from the 60's and 70's can continue to deliver great ratings and demos if exposed. If they are removed they will be forgotten. Music found and defined itself in the mid - late 60's through the mid - late 70's. Nothing since has really stood out as Billboard constantly ranks the biggest songs of all time from this era.
The Monday-Sunday 25-54 share under the Jack format grew to be higher than the prior oldies format.
There are many songs that have increased in appeal over time. Some got a boost from being a TV or movie them, and others just increased in "like" scores over the years
No station is going to play 60's and 70's songs if their core listener group scores them horribly in music tests.
Among 25-54 listeners, they never existed.
No. One kind of music, the pop stuff that Top 40 stations played, had a huge popularity cycle starting in the later 50's and ending as the 70's developed with far more FM niche formats that the days of limited AM signals would not permit.
There is plenty of music from any recent contemporary decade that you are excluding, such as AC, R&B, Country, Regional Mexican, Spanish language AC/pop and so on that have little or no relationship to what you seem to think is the only popular music form in America
If you have such deference to him, you would understand that he wouldn't, nor any other executive, see WCBS as "out in the woods", or requiring strengthening. In fact, he would probably be impressed that the station has successfully evolved over time since its return in 2007; while it may not sound the same musically, it's still the same basic premise/execution, and it has quantifiable, exemplary success in the market and is an incredibly strong brand.
I agree with David's response to this, but I will also remind you that those Arbitron ratings are at best 18 to 16 years old. A lot has changed since 2005-2007 and Jack FM was a much different product than what WCBS is today. That is also not what I was referencing earlier when discussing ratings, in case you were thinking that. What matters is that, today's WCBS is performing extremely well, and has done so with some of the more recent changes made in the last year. What you suggest would not strengthen that brand, in fact, it would dilute it.
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"Destroy" is a better word than "dilute".
You obviously haven't listened in a VERY long time.
The music changes have been ongoing. The format isn't a museum, it's a moving target. As people age, the format adjusts.
They're targeting 35-54, and hitting that mark pretty consistently.
Dan Mason retired for the last time in 2015. He's very content to be out of radio and supporting Syracuse University.
If you miss Beatles & Stones, they still play some on WAXQ
Correct. The listeners of today, in their 30, 40s and early 50s never wanted to hear The Beatles, anymore than the listeners of the 1980s wanted to hear Tex Ritter and his Texas Playboys (i.e. music that would have been 60 years old at that time)
All responses on here (including mine) are theories and opinion as there is no solid evidence posted here of numbers or research, just strong opinions and claims of numbers. I find it odd that some responses tear a theory or opinion apart one sentence at a time instead of dialogue. I would also be interested to know everyones background on here. Have you been in the trenches in a highly competitive fight in a medium or major market for ratings and won? If the answer is yes, then I'll be a little more open to these opinions. Thank you.
It's not difficult to find CBS-FM's ratings, which is the only research that matters.
Since you didn't respond to my question of your credentials, I'll assume you have never programmed in a highly competitive major or medium market with a winning record. If you don't have the goods, your opinions should not be so matter of fact.
I agree with PT and I have owned, managed or programmed stations in markets ranging from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires and nearly all have been ratings leaders in their markets. I was also on several Arbitron industry committees, including the initial one that monitored and advised them on the development of the PPM back in 2001/2002.
I also ran an in-house research division for a top ten group owner, and can tell you that your ideas in playing 60 year old songs for the 35-54 target of any classic hits station is absurdly wrong.
Listeners may give high test scores on some songs that were hits before they started to listen to the radio, but that is because the stations the did listen to when”they came of age” played them as gold. But a song from the 60s is only going to appeal today to folks well over age 55 and will violently drive away the under 55 core.
Some of us have full access to ratings data, past and present but are under contractual restrictions as to how much we can reveal.
If the individual facts don’t stand up, the total argument fails.
Start here: www.davidgleason.com And look at the resume many of the other posters are equally well informed to have valid opinions based on facts.
If the individual facts don't stand up according to the moderator and the "walk a fame"members, the total argument fails. Another person's opinion that has had much more experience in extremely competitive major and medium markets in American cities can be right as well. Your opinion or others on here should not have the final say as to who is correct based only on your and the parade of "star participants" LOL!!! "opinion". What works in Puerto Rico might not work here. I can see why this site doesn't get much action from looking at the dates of postings. But in your defense, it's your site you can do with it what you want. I thought it might be fun to get on here, but this was truly a complete waste of time. You guys have fun amongst yourselves.
New York, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Las Vegas, LA, San Diego, San Francisco and a couple more are not competitive major markets?
One thing I have found in over 60 years of U.S. and international radio is that the "big facts" are the same in Lima as in Los Angeles.
And, since as manager, VP and consultant I had the #1 or #2 station in Puerto Rico, a top 20 US market, for every year from 1970 to 2015... a market with 130 stations.... I think that highly competitive market is perfect for reference.
You do know that Puerto Rico is a U.S. market, right?
You've been told by a number of successful radio veterans that playing 60's songs on a station targeting any known sales demo is suicidal yet you disagree with no evidence. In fact, most of us here can name dozens of "oldies" stations that absolutely died from not eliminating the 60's and most of the 70's songs long ago.
So, your opinions are challenged so you are going to pick up your marbles and go home?
Bye.
You posted in a subsection of the forum that is dedicated to the entire state of New York. I would suggest you look at the main major market sections, which are quite active.