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CBS/Infinity New York FM Division = BRAIN DEAD

CBS/Infinity management is brain dead with the moves they have made recently here in New York. But this was something that did not just happen. Its been coming for some time now.

Actually the bug began at Westinghouse back in 1995. AT that time CBS only had WCBS 88, WCBS FM 101.1. Infinity had 66 WFAN and 92.3 K Rock. Westinghouse had WNEW 102.7 and 1010 WINS.

The nonsense began at WNEW. WNEW had been a Rock station blending Classic Rock and New ROck since way back when. Their only City competitor was WXRK K Rock playing Classic Rock. As a result WNEW FM (till December 1992..after that they weer WNEW being 1130 WNEW became WBBR). Did well in fact better than K Rock with the exception of Howard Stern.

WNEW though was slow with new rock. In December 1993 WNCN 104.3 became hard rocker WAXQ Q 104 playing alot of New Rock with a hard edge. This did take from WNEW but still they managed to pull 2 shares until the Summer of 1995.

By the Summer of 1995 Q 104 was playing alot of harder alternative music as Z 100 was a Pop ALternative leaning CHR. At that point WNEW made an honest format change to Alternative to give New York City a pure alternative choice in July 1995. Sadly though the format change was poorly executed and confusing. They had elements of triple A and Classic Rock mixed with Alternative. Their ratings immediately went below a 2 share.

In January 1996 CBS and Westinghouse completed the merger. This would put 1010 WINS and 88 WCBS in the same company. Then WNEW had a chance to redeem themselves that January in 1996. WXRK K Rock flipped to an alternative format with a hard lean abandoning Classic Rock. WNEW had the golden opportunity to go Classic Rock and get all the disenfranchised K Rock people. They would have at least gotten their numbers to a 2 share if not higher. But no they decided to flirt with a Modern Rock/Triple A/Classic Rock hybrid format confusing listeners. Then Q 104 was sold to Viacom (prior to merging with CBS in 2001) and Viacom flipped Q 104 to Classic Rock July 96. In 97 Chancellor would buy Q 104.

So WNEW kept this wierd format until the end of 1996 and then they too went Classic Rock. They failed miserably. In 1998 they tried to add new rock and still did lowsy. Rock fans had given up on WNEW long ago. By 1997 Infinity had merged with CBS. Late in 1998 WNEW laid off some of teh airstaff and brought on Opie & Anthony. Opie & Anthony were the only ones getting any ratings. They failed the rest of the day.

Then Fall 99 WNEW opted to go young talk. But they made a mistake. CBS/Infility opted to keep Hoawrd Stern on WXRK K Rock which was Active Rock by then rather than putting him on WNEW. With Stern and Opie & Anthony together on WNEW, they would have pulled a 3 share possibly. But instead WNEW continued to get 1 shares. Opie & Anthony continued to pull ratings.

This went on till 2002 when Opie & Anthony were blown out for misconduct. WNEW still hovered with a format noone was listening to into 2003.

The smart thing they should have done was either go Country, AC after Lite FM (and could have pulled a 2 to 3 share taking from WLTW's ratings pulling them down to a 3 or 4 share), or New York's Best Rock. But tehy stunt CHR for a couple months, then go to some Entertaniment format, then finally they go AC but then go Christmas for the Holidays. Teh AC and Christmas formats were the only smart things they did. Then after Christmas they evolve to a Dance format which they are holing on to today with low ratings.

So WNEW is a troubled station. A Jack format there would have been right...at least an imrpovement over what they are now. But no they have to put Jack on a station with good ratings taht is still billing well. The nonsense at WNEW has now spread to CBS FM. The one bad fruit is spoiling the other ones. K Rock is another issue. Theya re already toying with the idea of blowing them up after Howard Stern leaves. My opinion prior to The Jack stuff at CBS FM would have been to keep K Rock an Active Rock format and seeing how it will fare with Stern gone. But i predict a few fumbles at K Rock will occur.

Now CBS has 2 low rated FM stations and one that is mediocre at this point but that will change as well. One prediction I make is that this time next year CBS will have 3 poorly performing FM stations.

Actually I never though I would say this but CBS seems to have done more damage in the past few years then Clear Channel would even think of doing.

Clear Channel may use too much automation but I can say they make smart decisions with their stations most of the time. Once in a while they make a bad call (like WNNJ AM 1360 back in 2002 with "Deer Country"...though their Easy Listening FOrmat was no longer selling...but Chris Debello did a dynamic show on that format...sadly they could not sell their MOR Easy format...Country failed). But so does any company. But Clear Channel corrected the situation by putting on a very well programmed Oldies format on WNNJ. I have to say that 1360 WNNJ sounds excellent As do all their stations. Clear Channel at least has alot of smarts. They know what works.

Now CBS/Infinity should be hanging their heads in shame. They took 2 perfectly good radio stations and made a mess out of them (though Westinghouse started WNEW's failures...) With WNEW its been 9 out of 10 years of just stupid decisions. With CBS FM it was alot of little things in the last several years...but at least CBS FM was sounding good (though personality was not what it used to be and the music rotation boored me in the past 2 and a half years)...still their decisions though not quite my tastes were well though out. Until June 3, 2005.

I believe when Al Brady discussed his feelings about what happened at WABC he was right for the most part. He even stated no broadcaster wants to fail...they all try to do what is right. Well I beleiev that too with the exception on CBS/Infinity New York.

I will say if A Mom & Pop owner owned CBS FM and WNEW and they were their only 2 stations you can bet they would make money and do well. The livelihood of the owners would rest upon it. But even if these two stations lose money Infinity/CBS have deep pockets. Still if Clear Channel had these 2 stations they would be in better shape than they are now. Clear Channel would not AND DOES NOT tolerate incompetence.
 
> CBS/Infinity management is brain dead with the moves they
> have made recently here in New York. But this was something
> that did not just happen. Its been coming for some time now.
>
>
> Actually the bug began at Westinghouse back in 1995. AT that
> time CBS only had WCBS 88, WCBS FM 101.1. Infinity had 66
> WFAN and 92.3 K Rock. Westinghouse had WNEW 102.7 and 1010
> WINS.
>
> The nonsense began at WNEW. WNEW had been a Rock station
> blending Classic Rock and New ROck since way back when.
> Their only City competitor was WXRK K Rock playing Classic
> Rock. As a result WNEW FM (till December 1992..after that
> they weer WNEW being 1130 WNEW became WBBR). Did well in
> fact better than K Rock with the exception of Howard Stern.
>
> WNEW though was slow with new rock. In December 1993 WNCN
> 104.3 became hard rocker WAXQ Q 104 playing alot of New Rock
> with a hard edge. This did take from WNEW but still they
> managed to pull 2 shares until the Summer of 1995.
>
> By the Summer of 1995 Q 104 was playing alot of harder
> alternative music as Z 100 was a Pop ALternative leaning
> CHR. At that point WNEW made an honest format change to
> Alternative to give New York City a pure alternative choice
> in July 1995. Sadly though the format change was poorly
> executed and confusing. They had elements of triple A and
> Classic Rock mixed with Alternative. Their ratings
> immediately went below a 2 share.
>
> In January 1996 CBS and Westinghouse completed the merger.
> This would put 1010 WINS and 88 WCBS in the same company.
> Then WNEW had a chance to redeem themselves that January in
> 1996. WXRK K Rock flipped to an alternative format with a
> hard lean abandoning Classic Rock. WNEW had the golden
> opportunity to go Classic Rock and get all the
> disenfranchised K Rock people. They would have at least
> gotten their numbers to a 2 share if not higher. But no they
> decided to flirt with a Modern Rock/Triple A/Classic Rock
> hybrid format confusing listeners. Then Q 104 was sold to
> Viacom (prior to merging with CBS in 2001) and Viacom
> flipped Q 104 to Classic Rock July 96. In 97 Chancellor
> would buy Q 104.
>
> So WNEW kept this wierd format until the end of 1996 and
> then they too went Classic Rock. They failed miserably. In
> 1998 they tried to add new rock and still did lowsy. Rock
> fans had given up on WNEW long ago. By 1997 Infinity had
> merged with CBS. Late in 1998 WNEW laid off some of teh
> airstaff and brought on Opie & Anthony. Opie & Anthony were
> the only ones getting any ratings. They failed the rest of
> the day.
>
> Then Fall 99 WNEW opted to go young talk. But they made a
> mistake. CBS/Infility opted to keep Hoawrd Stern on WXRK K
> Rock which was Active Rock by then rather than putting him
> on WNEW. With Stern and Opie & Anthony together on WNEW,
> they would have pulled a 3 share possibly. But instead WNEW
> continued to get 1 shares. Opie & Anthony continued to pull
> ratings.
>
> This went on till 2002 when Opie & Anthony were blown out
> for misconduct. WNEW still hovered with a format noone was
> listening to into 2003.
>
> The smart thing they should have done was either go Country,
> AC after Lite FM (and could have pulled a 2 to 3 share
> taking from WLTW's ratings pulling them down to a 3 or 4
> share), or New York's Best Rock. But tehy stunt CHR for a
> couple months, then go to some Entertaniment format, then
> finally they go AC but then go Christmas for the Holidays.
> Teh AC and Christmas formats were the only smart things they
> did. Then after Christmas they evolve to a Dance format
> which they are holing on to today with low ratings.
>
> So WNEW is a troubled station. A Jack format there would
> have been right...at least an imrpovement over what they are
> now. But no they have to put Jack on a station with good
> ratings taht is still billing well. The nonsense at WNEW has
> now spread to CBS FM. The one bad fruit is spoiling the
> other ones. K Rock is another issue. Theya re already toying
> with the idea of blowing them up after Howard Stern leaves.
> My opinion prior to The Jack stuff at CBS FM would have been
> to keep K Rock an Active Rock format and seeing how it will
> fare with Stern gone. But i predict a few fumbles at K Rock
> will occur.
>
> Now CBS has 2 low rated FM stations and one that is mediocre
> at this point but that will change as well. One prediction I
> make is that this time next year CBS will have 3 poorly
> performing FM stations.
>
> Actually I never though I would say this but CBS seems to
> have done more damage in the past few years then Clear
> Channel would even think of doing.
>
> Clear Channel may use too much automation but I can say they
> make smart decisions with their stations most of the time.
> Once in a while they make a bad call (like WNNJ AM 1360 back
> in 2002 with "Deer Country"...though their Easy Listening
> FOrmat was no longer selling...but Chris Debello did a
> dynamic show on that format...sadly they could not sell
> their MOR Easy format...Country failed). But so does any
> company. But Clear Channel corrected the situation by
> putting on a very well programmed Oldies format on WNNJ. I
> have to say that 1360 WNNJ sounds excellent As do all their
> stations. Clear Channel at least has alot of smarts. They
> know what works.
>
> Now CBS/Infinity should be hanging their heads in shame.
> They took 2 perfectly good radio stations and made a mess
> out of them (though Westinghouse started WNEW's failures...)
> With WNEW its been 9 out of 10 years of just stupid
> decisions. With CBS FM it was alot of little things in the
> last several years...but at least CBS FM was sounding good
> (though personality was not what it used to be and the music
> rotation boored me in the past 2 and a half years)...still
> their decisions though not quite my tastes were well though
> out. Until June 3, 2005.
>
> I believe when Al Brady discussed his feelings about what
> happened at WABC he was right for the most part. He even
> stated no broadcaster wants to fail...they all try to do
> what is right. Well I beleiev that too with the exception on
> CBS/Infinity New York.
>
> I will say if A Mom & Pop owner owned CBS FM and WNEW and
> they were their only 2 stations you can bet they would make
> money and do well. The livelihood of the owners would rest
> upon it. But even if these two stations lose money
> Infinity/CBS have deep pockets. Still if Clear Channel had
> these 2 stations they would be in better shape than they are
> now. Clear Channel would not AND DOES NOT tolerate
> incompetence.
>

Great post. WNEW FM has been a mess since the early to mid 90s, but things got even worst in the early 2000s as you said. It would have been smart if WNEW stayed AC, at least 2 years ago. I agree with you that Jack should have made him self a home at 102.7 and keep CBS FM. The only reason why 101.1 went Jack was because it would get more attention. Again, that statement came from another poster. (Wow, I learn a lot from some people here!)The statement seems accurate. Infinity has made quite a few dumb moves the past couple of years. On the subject of Clear Channel, they do have their lows, but seems that they make smarter decisions sometimes.
<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>
 
> CBS/Infinity management is brain dead with the moves they
> have made recently here in New York. But this was something
> that did not just happen. Its been coming for some time now.
>
>
> Actually the bug began at Westinghouse back in 1995. AT that
> time CBS only had WCBS 88, WCBS FM 101.1. Infinity had 66
> WFAN and 92.3 K Rock. Westinghouse had WNEW 102.7 and 1010
> WINS.
>
> The nonsense began at WNEW. WNEW had been a Rock station
> blending Classic Rock and New ROck since way back when.
> Their only City competitor was WXRK K Rock playing Classic
> Rock. As a result WNEW FM (till December 1992..after that
> they weer WNEW being 1130 WNEW became WBBR). Did well in
> fact better than K Rock with the exception of Howard Stern.
>
> WNEW though was slow with new rock. In December 1993 WNCN
> 104.3 became hard rocker WAXQ Q 104 playing alot of New Rock
> with a hard edge. This did take from WNEW but still they
> managed to pull 2 shares until the Summer of 1995.
>
> By the Summer of 1995 Q 104 was playing alot of harder
> alternative music as Z 100 was a Pop ALternative leaning
> CHR. At that point WNEW made an honest format change to
> Alternative to give New York City a pure alternative choice
> in July 1995. Sadly though the format change was poorly
> executed and confusing. They had elements of triple A and
> Classic Rock mixed with Alternative. Their ratings
> immediately went below a 2 share.
>
> In January 1996 CBS and Westinghouse completed the merger.
> This would put 1010 WINS and 88 WCBS in the same company.
> Then WNEW had a chance to redeem themselves that January in
> 1996. WXRK K Rock flipped to an alternative format with a
> hard lean abandoning Classic Rock. WNEW had the golden
> opportunity to go Classic Rock and get all the
> disenfranchised K Rock people. They would have at least
> gotten their numbers to a 2 share if not higher. But no they
> decided to flirt with a Modern Rock/Triple A/Classic Rock
> hybrid format confusing listeners. Then Q 104 was sold to
> Viacom (prior to merging with CBS in 2001) and Viacom
> flipped Q 104 to Classic Rock July 96. In 97 Chancellor
> would buy Q 104.
>
> So WNEW kept this wierd format until the end of 1996 and
> then they too went Classic Rock. They failed miserably. In
> 1998 they tried to add new rock and still did lowsy. Rock
> fans had given up on WNEW long ago. By 1997 Infinity had
> merged with CBS. Late in 1998 WNEW laid off some of teh
> airstaff and brought on Opie & Anthony. Opie & Anthony were
> the only ones getting any ratings. They failed the rest of
> the day.
>
> Then Fall 99 WNEW opted to go young talk. But they made a
> mistake. CBS/Infility opted to keep Hoawrd Stern on WXRK K
> Rock which was Active Rock by then rather than putting him
> on WNEW. With Stern and Opie & Anthony together on WNEW,
> they would have pulled a 3 share possibly. But instead WNEW
> continued to get 1 shares. Opie & Anthony continued to pull
> ratings.
>
> This went on till 2002 when Opie & Anthony were blown out
> for misconduct. WNEW still hovered with a format noone was
> listening to into 2003.
>
> The smart thing they should have done was either go Country,
> AC after Lite FM (and could have pulled a 2 to 3 share
> taking from WLTW's ratings pulling them down to a 3 or 4
> share), or New York's Best Rock. But tehy stunt CHR for a
> couple months, then go to some Entertaniment format, then
> finally they go AC but then go Christmas for the Holidays.
> Teh AC and Christmas formats were the only smart things they
> did. Then after Christmas they evolve to a Dance format
> which they are holing on to today with low ratings.
>
> So WNEW is a troubled station. A Jack format there would
> have been right...at least an imrpovement over what they are
> now. But no they have to put Jack on a station with good
> ratings taht is still billing well. The nonsense at WNEW has
> now spread to CBS FM. The one bad fruit is spoiling the
> other ones. K Rock is another issue. Theya re already toying
> with the idea of blowing them up after Howard Stern leaves.
> My opinion prior to The Jack stuff at CBS FM would have been
> to keep K Rock an Active Rock format and seeing how it will
> fare with Stern gone. But i predict a few fumbles at K Rock
> will occur.
>
> Now CBS has 2 low rated FM stations and one that is mediocre
> at this point but that will change as well. One prediction I
> make is that this time next year CBS will have 3 poorly
> performing FM stations.
>
> Actually I never though I would say this but CBS seems to
> have done more damage in the past few years then Clear
> Channel would even think of doing.
>
> Clear Channel may use too much automation but I can say they
> make smart decisions with their stations most of the time.
> Once in a while they make a bad call (like WNNJ AM 1360 back
> in 2002 with "Deer Country"...though their Easy Listening
> FOrmat was no longer selling...but Chris Debello did a
> dynamic show on that format...sadly they could not sell
> their MOR Easy format...Country failed). But so does any
> company. But Clear Channel corrected the situation by
> putting on a very well programmed Oldies format on WNNJ. I
> have to say that 1360 WNNJ sounds excellent As do all their
> stations. Clear Channel at least has alot of smarts. They
> know what works.
>
> Now CBS/Infinity should be hanging their heads in shame.
> They took 2 perfectly good radio stations and made a mess
> out of them (though Westinghouse started WNEW's failures...)
> With WNEW its been 9 out of 10 years of just stupid
> decisions. With CBS FM it was alot of little things in the
> last several years...but at least CBS FM was sounding good
> (though personality was not what it used to be and the music
> rotation boored me in the past 2 and a half years)...still
> their decisions though not quite my tastes were well though
> out. Until June 3, 2005.
>
> I believe when Al Brady discussed his feelings about what
> happened at WABC he was right for the most part. He even
> stated no broadcaster wants to fail...they all try to do
> what is right. Well I beleiev that too with the exception on
> CBS/Infinity New York.
>
> I will say if A Mom & Pop owner owned CBS FM and WNEW and
> they were their only 2 stations you can bet they would make
> money and do well. The livelihood of the owners would rest
> upon it. But even if these two stations lose money
> Infinity/CBS have deep pockets. Still if Clear Channel had
> these 2 stations they would be in better shape than they are
> now. Clear Channel would not AND DOES NOT tolerate
> incompetence.
>
you nailed it with the last paragraph! NYC radio is really a mess! Are there any locally owned stations that could possibly flip to Oldies in NYC?
 
> CBS/Infinity management is brain dead with the moves they
> have made recently here in New York. But this was something
> that did not just happen. Its been coming for some time now.

With the pattern that we are seeing with all these "Jack" flips at Infinity FM stations, it is obvious that the decision to flip WCBS-FM came from corporate...probably some 22-year-old, know-it-all d***head, fresh out of college, who thinks that all oldies listeners, like standards fans, don't buy advertised products, live on Social Security, and eat cat food for dinner. For it seems to be "open season" for blowing out oldies stations in the Infinity group. Among the oldies stations that have given way to "Jack" are WQSR in Baltimore, WJMK in Chicago, KCBS-FM in Los Angeles, and the station in Indianapolis. According to an industry newsletter, Infinity has even appointed a vice president in charge of programming the "Jack" stations! Talk about the ultimate in cookie cutter radio!

WCBS-FM began to decline a couple of years ago as a result of this same muddleheaded thinking. At that time, CBS-FM dropped all pre-British Invasion music, it killed Don K. Reed's "Doo Wop Shop", and loaded up the airwaves with all that 70s and 80s dreck that we can hear on just about any non-urban or non-Hispanic FM station in the market. When WCBS-FM dumped the "Doo Wop Shop", WOGL in Philly likewise dropped its Sunday night doo wop program, "Street Corner Sunday". An outcry in Philly brought "Street Corner Sunday" back to the air, although pre-Beatles oldies are otherwise not heard on WOGL.

"Jack" will probably prove to be just another fad. And it probably won't work in New York. Listeners in New York and New Jersey are "weather happy". They want their weather forecasts, regardless of the station's format. The old WCBS-FM gave us news and weather. "Jack" does neither.

The one thing that "Jack" would allow Infinity to do in its major markets is break the talent union. You don't need to pay union wages to an Audiovault or Scott Studios box that comes loaded with the 200-250 raunchy songs that "Jack" features!

PSST! Mr. VP-in-Charge-of-Jack! If you are trying to reach iPod listeners with this format, I don't know of any iPods that will make their listeners sit through seven-minute stopsets!
 
> CBS/Infinity management is brain dead with the moves they
> have made recently here in New York. But this was something
> that did not just happen. Its been coming for some time now.
>
>
> Actually the bug began at Westinghouse back in 1995. AT that
> time CBS only had WCBS 88, WCBS FM 101.1. Infinity had 66
> WFAN and 92.3 K Rock. Westinghouse had WNEW 102.7 and 1010
> WINS.
>
> The nonsense began at WNEW. WNEW had been a Rock station
> blending Classic Rock and New ROck since way back when.
> Their only City competitor was WXRK K Rock playing Classic
> Rock. As a result WNEW FM (till December 1992..after that
> they weer WNEW being 1130 WNEW became WBBR). Did well in
> fact better than K Rock with the exception of Howard Stern.
>
> WNEW though was slow with new rock. In December 1993 WNCN
> 104.3 became hard rocker WAXQ Q 104 playing alot of New Rock
> with a hard edge. This did take from WNEW but still they
> managed to pull 2 shares until the Summer of 1995.
>
> By the Summer of 1995 Q 104 was playing alot of harder
> alternative music as Z 100 was a Pop ALternative leaning
> CHR. At that point WNEW made an honest format change to
> Alternative to give New York City a pure alternative choice
> in July 1995. Sadly though the format change was poorly
> executed and confusing. They had elements of triple A and
> Classic Rock mixed with Alternative. Their ratings
> immediately went below a 2 share.
>
> In January 1996 CBS and Westinghouse completed the merger.
> This would put 1010 WINS and 88 WCBS in the same company.
> Then WNEW had a chance to redeem themselves that January in
> 1996. WXRK K Rock flipped to an alternative format with a
> hard lean abandoning Classic Rock. WNEW had the golden
> opportunity to go Classic Rock and get all the
> disenfranchised K Rock people. They would have at least
> gotten their numbers to a 2 share if not higher. But no they
> decided to flirt with a Modern Rock/Triple A/Classic Rock
> hybrid format confusing listeners. Then Q 104 was sold to
> Viacom (prior to merging with CBS in 2001) and Viacom
> flipped Q 104 to Classic Rock July 96. In 97 Chancellor
> would buy Q 104.
>
> So WNEW kept this wierd format until the end of 1996 and
> then they too went Classic Rock. They failed miserably. In
> 1998 they tried to add new rock and still did lowsy. Rock
> fans had given up on WNEW long ago. By 1997 Infinity had
> merged with CBS. Late in 1998 WNEW laid off some of teh
> airstaff and brought on Opie & Anthony. Opie & Anthony were
> the only ones getting any ratings. They failed the rest of
> the day.
>
> Then Fall 99 WNEW opted to go young talk. But they made a
> mistake. CBS/Infility opted to keep Hoawrd Stern on WXRK K
> Rock which was Active Rock by then rather than putting him
> on WNEW. With Stern and Opie & Anthony together on WNEW,
> they would have pulled a 3 share possibly. But instead WNEW
> continued to get 1 shares. Opie & Anthony continued to pull
> ratings.
>
> This went on till 2002 when Opie & Anthony were blown out
> for misconduct. WNEW still hovered with a format noone was
> listening to into 2003.
>
> The smart thing they should have done was either go Country,
> AC after Lite FM (and could have pulled a 2 to 3 share
> taking from WLTW's ratings pulling them down to a 3 or 4
> share), or New York's Best Rock. But tehy stunt CHR for a
> couple months, then go to some Entertaniment format, then
> finally they go AC but then go Christmas for the Holidays.
> Teh AC and Christmas formats were the only smart things they
> did. Then after Christmas they evolve to a Dance format
> which they are holing on to today with low ratings.
>
> So WNEW is a troubled station. A Jack format there would
> have been right...at least an imrpovement over what they are
> now. But no they have to put Jack on a station with good
> ratings taht is still billing well. The nonsense at WNEW has
> now spread to CBS FM. The one bad fruit is spoiling the
> other ones. K Rock is another issue. Theya re already toying
> with the idea of blowing them up after Howard Stern leaves.
> My opinion prior to The Jack stuff at CBS FM would have been
> to keep K Rock an Active Rock format and seeing how it will
> fare with Stern gone. But i predict a few fumbles at K Rock
> will occur.
>
> Now CBS has 2 low rated FM stations and one that is mediocre
> at this point but that will change as well. One prediction I
> make is that this time next year CBS will have 3 poorly
> performing FM stations.
>
> Actually I never though I would say this but CBS seems to
> have done more damage in the past few years then Clear
> Channel would even think of doing.
>
> Clear Channel may use too much automation but I can say they
> make smart decisions with their stations most of the time.
> Once in a while they make a bad call (like WNNJ AM 1360 back
> in 2002 with "Deer Country"...though their Easy Listening
> FOrmat was no longer selling...but Chris Debello did a
> dynamic show on that format...sadly they could not sell
> their MOR Easy format...Country failed). But so does any
> company. But Clear Channel corrected the situation by
> putting on a very well programmed Oldies format on WNNJ. I
> have to say that 1360 WNNJ sounds excellent As do all their
> stations. Clear Channel at least has alot of smarts. They
> know what works.
>
> Now CBS/Infinity should be hanging their heads in shame.
> They took 2 perfectly good radio stations and made a mess
> out of them (though Westinghouse started WNEW's failures...)
> With WNEW its been 9 out of 10 years of just stupid
> decisions. With CBS FM it was alot of little things in the
> last several years...but at least CBS FM was sounding good
> (though personality was not what it used to be and the music
> rotation boored me in the past 2 and a half years)...still
> their decisions though not quite my tastes were well though
> out. Until June 3, 2005.
>
> I believe when Al Brady discussed his feelings about what
> happened at WABC he was right for the most part. He even
> stated no broadcaster wants to fail...they all try to do
> what is right. Well I beleiev that too with the exception on
> CBS/Infinity New York.
>
> I will say if A Mom & Pop owner owned CBS FM and WNEW and
> they were their only 2 stations you can bet they would make
> money and do well. The livelihood of the owners would rest
> upon it. But even if these two stations lose money
> Infinity/CBS have deep pockets. Still if Clear Channel had
> these 2 stations they would be in better shape than they are
> now. Clear Channel would not AND DOES NOT tolerate
> incompetence.
>


You make some decent points and some that are flat out, out of left field. Blaming the failure of wnew as a talk station on the factors upon which you've blamed it, well you're off base there. First of all they did not have enough talent to do it full time 24/7. Dona dn Mike and Leykis are just not ratings powerhouses and subsequently were not going to do anything more than what they did, help drag the station down. Howard and O and A on the same station was problematic, it would have been difficult to sell both shows from the content perspective not ot mention the two egos of those two primodonna shows (and make no mistake their BOTh prima donnas) would not have allowed that to happen.. Also I know that Chiusano was not going to allow them to move Howard to another infinity property, alas his billing/the billing of Krock would have evaporate. So although there have beeen manyh missteps by Infinity to be certain let's not blame them for more than what they;re due.
 
> First of all they did not have enough
> talent to do it full time 24/7.

They would have come close if they put Howard Stern on mornings.

> Dona dn Mike and Leykis are
> just not ratings powerhouses and subsequently were not going
> to do anything more than what they did, help drag the
> station down.

They were okay where they were but needed a better show leading up to them and Stern would have helped them with ratings.

> Howard and O and A on the same station was
> problematic, it would have been difficult to sell both shows
> from the content perspective not ot mention the two egos of
> those two primodonna shows (and make no mistake their BOTh
> prima donnas) would not have allowed that to happen..

ACtually Stern was on the same station as Opie & Anthony in several other markets. Philadelphia for one. So why not have them? They were 4 hours apart. They would not have to deal with each other. Allowed that to happen? who was the boss there? A jock or talk show host does not get to decide who else works there.

> Also I know that Chiusano was not going to allow them to move
> Howard to another infinity property, alas his billing/the
> billing of Krock would have evaporate. So although there
> have beeen manyh missteps by Infinity to be certain let's
> not blame them for more than what they;re due.

They should have just put him over both stations and insisted on putting them BOTH on WNEW or BOTH ON K ROCK and move WNEW to a totally different format.

The fact that Hoawrd Stern seemed to call the shots demonstrates how poor management was there for allowing this relationship to evolve like this over the years.
 
> > First of all they did not have enough
> > talent to do it full time 24/7.
>
> They would have come close if they put Howard Stern on
> mornings.
>
> > Dona dn Mike and Leykis are
> > just not ratings powerhouses and subsequently were not
> going
> > to do anything more than what they did, help drag the
> > station down.
>
> They were okay where they were but needed a better show
> leading up to them and Stern would have helped them with
> ratings.
>
> > Howard and O and A on the same station was
> > problematic, it would have been difficult to sell both
> shows
> > from the content perspective not ot mention the two egos
> of
> > those two primodonna shows (and make no mistake their BOTh
>
> > prima donnas) would not have allowed that to happen..
>
> ACtually Stern was on the same station as Opie & Anthony in
> several other markets. Philadelphia for one. So why not have
> them? They were 4 hours apart. They would not have to deal
> with each other. Allowed that to happen? who was the boss
> there? A jock or talk show host does not get to decide who
> else works there.

You are correct sir but they had real problems with Stern and O and A on one station in many markets they had a tough time billing. There are huge no dictate clauses in many advertisers contracts, meaning in the simplest terms that Howard is a certain type of show and although he has millions of fans many advertisers want nothing to do with him because of who and what he is. So many huge advertisers mostly corporate america BMW, McDonalds, Burger king, etc deep pocket advertisers will not advertise on Stern. As it was explained to me by a GM of a Stern station, and a high ranking infinity guy, more people will NOT advertise on Stern than will. O and A had a worse problem becuase of the content of their show many advertisers did not want to be associated with them becuase of the content, So it was tough to make money with both shows on, in the most important dayparts. People will argue, Psycho Tim O and A loyalist will post differently but this is reality. Also since when does a talk show host determine who is on the station? are you saying that you think Howard is just a talk show host and has no influence on the rest of the station where he is anchored?.....Oh, I hope you're kidding, if not you really should not be posting on this board, you are ill equipped to participate in any discussion.
 
Opie said

> They should have just put him over both stations and
> insisted on putting them BOTH on WNEW or BOTH ON K ROCK and
> move WNEW to a totally different format.

Opie claimed that they had been giving the option of joining either XRK or NEW, but Stern blocked them from his station. Anyone know any more about that?

> They were okay where they were but needed a better show
> leading up to them and Stern would have helped them with
> ratings.

And let's not forget that was a revolving slot. Leslie Gold, Ron n Fez, Don n Mike, etc. I forget the list in order, but Leslie Gold shouldn't have been let go the first time.
 
Re: Opie said

> > They should have just put him over both stations and
> > insisted on putting them BOTH on WNEW or BOTH ON K ROCK
> and
> > move WNEW to a totally different format.
>
> Opie claimed that they had been giving the option of joining
> either XRK or NEW, but Stern blocked them from his station.
> Anyone know any more about that?
>
> > They were okay where they were but needed a better show
> > leading up to them and Stern would have helped them with
> > ratings.
>
> And let's not forget that was a revolving slot. Leslie
> Gold, Ron n Fez, Don n Mike, etc. I forget the list in
> order, but Leslie Gold shouldn't have been let go the first
> time.
>
yeah well I dont know how much I believe Opie there is a lot of revisionist history involved. The story is O and A would have gone to nights at xrk, not afternoons and their egos would never have let them do that.
 
What about the station at 1480AM that was Z-Rock in the mid-nineties? Do you think they are part of the equation?


> CBS/Infinity management is brain dead with the moves they
> have made recently here in New York. But this was something
> that did not just happen. Its been coming for some time now.
>
>
> Actually the bug began at Westinghouse back in 1995. AT that
> time CBS only had WCBS 88, WCBS FM 101.1. Infinity had 66
> WFAN and 92.3 K Rock. Westinghouse had WNEW 102.7 and 1010
> WINS.
>
> The nonsense began at WNEW. WNEW had been a Rock station
> blending Classic Rock and New ROck since way back when.
> Their only City competitor was WXRK K Rock playing Classic
> Rock. As a result WNEW FM (till December 1992..after that
> they weer WNEW being 1130 WNEW became WBBR). Did well in
> fact better than K Rock with the exception of Howard Stern.
>
> WNEW though was slow with new rock. In December 1993 WNCN
> 104.3 became hard rocker WAXQ Q 104 playing alot of New Rock
> with a hard edge. This did take from WNEW but still they
> managed to pull 2 shares until the Summer of 1995.
>
> By the Summer of 1995 Q 104 was playing alot of harder
> alternative music as Z 100 was a Pop ALternative leaning
> CHR. At that point WNEW made an honest format change to
> Alternative to give New York City a pure alternative choice
> in July 1995. Sadly though the format change was poorly
> executed and confusing. They had elements of triple A and
> Classic Rock mixed with Alternative. Their ratings
> immediately went below a 2 share.
>
> In January 1996 CBS and Westinghouse completed the merger.
> This would put 1010 WINS and 88 WCBS in the same company.
> Then WNEW had a chance to redeem themselves that January in
> 1996. WXRK K Rock flipped to an alternative format with a
> hard lean abandoning Classic Rock. WNEW had the golden
> opportunity to go Classic Rock and get all the
> disenfranchised K Rock people. They would have at least
> gotten their numbers to a 2 share if not higher. But no they
> decided to flirt with a Modern Rock/Triple A/Classic Rock
> hybrid format confusing listeners. Then Q 104 was sold to
> Viacom (prior to merging with CBS in 2001) and Viacom
> flipped Q 104 to Classic Rock July 96. In 97 Chancellor
> would buy Q 104.
>
> So WNEW kept this wierd format until the end of 1996 and
> then they too went Classic Rock. They failed miserably. In
> 1998 they tried to add new rock and still did lowsy. Rock
> fans had given up on WNEW long ago. By 1997 Infinity had
> merged with CBS. Late in 1998 WNEW laid off some of teh
> airstaff and brought on Opie & Anthony. Opie & Anthony were
> the only ones getting any ratings. They failed the rest of
> the day.
>
> Then Fall 99 WNEW opted to go young talk. But they made a
> mistake. CBS/Infility opted to keep Hoawrd Stern on WXRK K
> Rock which was Active Rock by then rather than putting him
> on WNEW. With Stern and Opie & Anthony together on WNEW,
> they would have pulled a 3 share possibly. But instead WNEW
> continued to get 1 shares. Opie & Anthony continued to pull
> ratings.
>
> This went on till 2002 when Opie & Anthony were blown out
> for misconduct. WNEW still hovered with a format noone was
> listening to into 2003.
>
> The smart thing they should have done was either go Country,
> AC after Lite FM (and could have pulled a 2 to 3 share
> taking from WLTW's ratings pulling them down to a 3 or 4
> share), or New York's Best Rock. But tehy stunt CHR for a
> couple months, then go to some Entertaniment format, then
> finally they go AC but then go Christmas for the Holidays.
> Teh AC and Christmas formats were the only smart things they
> did. Then after Christmas they evolve to a Dance format
> which they are holing on to today with low ratings.
>
> So WNEW is a troubled station. A Jack format there would
> have been right...at least an imrpovement over what they are
> now. But no they have to put Jack on a station with good
> ratings taht is still billing well. The nonsense at WNEW has
> now spread to CBS FM. The one bad fruit is spoiling the
> other ones. K Rock is another issue. Theya re already toying
> with the idea of blowing them up after Howard Stern leaves.
> My opinion prior to The Jack stuff at CBS FM would have been
> to keep K Rock an Active Rock format and seeing how it will
> fare with Stern gone. But i predict a few fumbles at K Rock
> will occur.
>
> Now CBS has 2 low rated FM stations and one that is mediocre
> at this point but that will change as well. One prediction I
> make is that this time next year CBS will have 3 poorly
> performing FM stations.
>
> Actually I never though I would say this but CBS seems to
> have done more damage in the past few years then Clear
> Channel would even think of doing.
>
> Clear Channel may use too much automation but I can say they
> make smart decisions with their stations most of the time.
> Once in a while they make a bad call (like WNNJ AM 1360 back
> in 2002 with "Deer Country"...though their Easy Listening
> FOrmat was no longer selling...but Chris Debello did a
> dynamic show on that format...sadly they could not sell
> their MOR Easy format...Country failed). But so does any
> company. But Clear Channel corrected the situation by
> putting on a very well programmed Oldies format on WNNJ. I
> have to say that 1360 WNNJ sounds excellent As do all their
> stations. Clear Channel at least has alot of smarts. They
> know what works.
>
> Now CBS/Infinity should be hanging their heads in shame.
> They took 2 perfectly good radio stations and made a mess
> out of them (though Westinghouse started WNEW's failures...)
> With WNEW its been 9 out of 10 years of just stupid
> decisions. With CBS FM it was alot of little things in the
> last several years...but at least CBS FM was sounding good
> (though personality was not what it used to be and the music
> rotation boored me in the past 2 and a half years)...still
> their decisions though not quite my tastes were well though
> out. Until June 3, 2005.
>
> I believe when Al Brady discussed his feelings about what
> happened at WABC he was right for the most part. He even
> stated no broadcaster wants to fail...they all try to do
> what is right. Well I beleiev that too with the exception on
> CBS/Infinity New York.
>
> I will say if A Mom & Pop owner owned CBS FM and WNEW and
> they were their only 2 stations you can bet they would make
> money and do well. The livelihood of the owners would rest
> upon it. But even if these two stations lose money
> Infinity/CBS have deep pockets. Still if Clear Channel had
> these 2 stations they would be in better shape than they are
> now. Clear Channel would not AND DOES NOT tolerate
> incompetence.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
> > > First of all they did not have enough
> > > talent to do it full time 24/7.
> >
> > They would have come close if they put Howard Stern on
> > mornings.
> >
> > > Dona dn Mike and Leykis are
> > > just not ratings powerhouses and subsequently were not
> > going
> > > to do anything more than what they did, help drag the
> > > station down.
> >
> > They were okay where they were but needed a better show
> > leading up to them and Stern would have helped them with
> > ratings.
> >
> > > Howard and O and A on the same station was
> > > problematic, it would have been difficult to sell both
> > shows
> > > from the content perspective not ot mention the two egos
>
> > of
> > > those two primodonna shows (and make no mistake their
> BOTh
> >
> > > prima donnas) would not have allowed that to happen..
> >
> > ACtually Stern was on the same station as Opie & Anthony
> in
> > several other markets. Philadelphia for one. So why not
> have
> > them? They were 4 hours apart. They would not have to deal
>
> > with each other. Allowed that to happen? who was the boss
> > there? A jock or talk show host does not get to decide who
>
> > else works there.
>
> You are correct sir but they had real problems with Stern
> and O and A on one station in many markets they had a tough
> time billing. There are huge no dictate clauses in many
> advertisers contracts, meaning in the simplest terms that
> Howard is a certain type of show and although he has
> millions of fans many advertisers want nothing to do with
> him because of who and what he is. So many huge advertisers
> mostly corporate america BMW, McDonalds, Burger king, etc
> deep pocket advertisers will not advertise on Stern. As it
> was explained to me by a GM of a Stern station, and a high
> ranking infinity guy, more people will NOT advertise on
> Stern than will. O and A had a worse problem becuase of the
> content of their show many advertisers did not want to be
> associated with them becuase of the content, So it was tough
> to make money with both shows on, in the most important
> dayparts. People will argue, Psycho Tim O and A loyalist
> will post differently but this is reality. Also since when
> does a talk show host determine who is on the station? are
> you saying that you think Howard is just a talk show host
> and has no influence on the rest of the station where he is
> anchored?.....Oh, I hope you're kidding, if not you really
> should not be posting on this board, you are ill equipped to
> participate in any discussion.
>
Very true. More advertisers will not go near the Stern show than will and O and A was even worse. DId you ever listen to the spot breaks when theey would break in syndication? Horny Goat weed, sweet release, no big time clients ever. That show was not a huge money maker for stations that carried it and stern no matter what some will say.
 
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