CBS Must Regret KFWB Format Flip!

[radio-blogger]

A legendary news station should deserve a better death than a two-bit talk/brokered out format.
The drop in ratings will continue!

 

[dustintv]

Truly pathetic isn't it. Obviously I understand that KFWB being all news was expensive and wasn't always doing that great in ratings but I think a re-imagining was in order rather than trying third-tier N/T. I think KFWB's fast-paced style could have worked quite well on FM. Remember it was not that long ago that KNX was in the gutter and now KFWB is there too. Self-sabotage from CBS perhaps.

 

[radio-blogger]

I agree 100%!

I can't imagine brokered income out delivering revenue that could have been generated by upgrading KFWB's image? Maybe a switch to FM. Why just let it die this way, really insane!

 

[dustintv]

I agree 100%!

I can't imagine brokered income out delivering revenue that could have been generated by upgrading KFWB's image? Maybe a switch to FM. Why just let it die this way, really insane!

It's interesting because CBS has successfully been able to simulcast KCBS in San Francisco on FM quite well, together the two have a higher cume than KGO in the 12+ numbers overall. I wonder why they haven't attempted for KFWB or KNX. Would it have worked for KFWB? Perhaps. Unfortunately we'll never know. So far the only News and N/T station that moved from AM to FM that's not doing well in KIRO in Seattle but there's a lot of factors behind that mess.

 

[LKellerIII]

I agree 100%!

I can't imagine brokered income out delivering revenue that could have been generated by upgrading KFWB's image? Maybe a switch to FM. Why just let it die this way, really insane!

It's interesting because CBS has successfully been able to simulcast KCBS in San Francisco on FM quite well, together the two have a higher cume than KGO in the 12+ numbers overall. I wonder why they haven't attempted for KFWB or KNX. Would it have worked for KFWB? Perhaps. Unfortunately we'll never know. So far the only News and N/T station that moved from AM to FM that's not doing well in KIRO in Seattle but there's a lot of factors behind that mess.

The comparison with KCBS (San Francisco) may not be relevant. Unlike KNX and KFWB, KCBS has consistently been a high rated station (12+) - usually number 3 behind KGO and KOIT (FM-light rock), even before the 106.9 FM simulcast. If I'm not mistaken, neither LA station has been in the Top 10 for years.

Over the years, a couple of competitors have tried to take on KCBS for All News- an AM station in the 80s, and a Westinghouse-owned FM in the 90s. Both were abject failures. Clearly, the Bay Area can't support more than one All News station - especially with KQED (NPR) sucking up a lot of the oxygen.

The same may now be true of LA - even if it is a much larger market.

 

[musicfan101]

I don't get it, how come CBS never sold KFWB? Probably would've saved KLSX from the chopping block...

 

[emailfailed]

If memory serves correctly when Roy Laughlin came into the Wilshire complex over an year ago part of his plan for CBS was to turn KFWB into an "revenue stream station," or, operate on the cheap with brokered programming, paid commercials and syndicated programming and let the cash come in. (An turn-key operation.)

I wonder how well that strategy is working out?

Personally, I cannot imagine KFWB is billing high, but I am not too sure what they were expecting in billing expectations and returns.

Also...

I have often wondered, why can New York support two all news stations, WCBS-AM and WINS, both CBS properties, but not in L.A. where we use our cars an little more often than The Big Apple?

Furthermore, given around half the population of New York City does not own cars, and whether by train or car commutes are not that long, where do the listeners for both news stations come from?

 

[westfield60]

I don't consider myself as the brightest guy out there, but I could have predicted a month before KFWB flipped that with the lineup that it has today that they will find themselves in the toilet. Either program directors are the dumbest folks out there or there is something I am sorely missing. The same happened with KABC over the years, program director after program director they kept making stupid moves which everyone saw except them and guess what they found themselves in the crapper.

So now KFWB cannot be seriously scratching their heads going "what went wrong". Everyone saw this coming.

 

[emailfailed]

It wouldn't kill me to proofread once in an while.

"Furthermore, given around half the population of New York City does not own cars, and whether by train or car commutes are not that long, where do the listeners for both news stations come from?"

It should have read... "Furthermore, given around half the population of New York City does not own cars, and where even the commute, be it by train or car is not that long, where do the listeners for both news stations come from?"

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't get it, how come CBS never sold KFWB? Probably would've saved KLSX from the chopping block...

Who'd buy it, what would they pay for it and what could they successfully program on it?

Absent compelling answers to those three questions, CBS does better keeping the station, reducing overhead and trying to make KFWB part of an ad sales combo package with its other upper-demo stations (KNX, KTWV and KRTH).

 

[emailfailed]

I don't get it, how come CBS never sold KFWB? Probably would've saved KLSX from the chopping block...

Who'd buy it, what would they pay for it and what could they successfully program on it?

Perhaps Saul Levine would buy it.

Levine seems to have an issue with the way CBS is operating their Southern California properties, so much so, he is taking it to the FCC.

Also...

Some years back CBS placed KFWB in an Trust, so is it still in an Trust?

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't get it, how come CBS never sold KFWB? Probably would've saved KLSX from the chopping block...

Who'd buy it, what would they pay for it and what could they successfully program on it?

Perhaps Saul Levine would buy it.

Levine seems to have an issue with the way CBS is operating their Southern California properties, so much so, he is taking it to the FCC.

Also...

Some years back CBS placed KFWB in an Trust, so is it still in an Trust?

Not sure about the trust.

As for Saul, could he pay the dollars it would take to make CBS tempted to sell? And what about format? If CBS sold, they'd want to make sure it was to someone who wouldn't find a way to siphon off listeners from the remaining CBS stations. Given what Saul has done with Country, no seller should take him lightly.

 

[emailfailed]

I was being just an little tongue-and-cheek talking about Saul Levine buying KFWB.

I agree, if they were selling it would not be wise for either CBS or Clear Channel to sell any of their L.A. properties to Levine.

If I am correct Levine is no strange to news radio operations. Wasn't it Levine who ran K-News in the mid-1990s?

Surely if the opportunity presented itself I wouldn't put it past Levine to flip KFWB back to news, and maybe do an better job than what CBS did.

Going back to New York for an second, why has CBS left WINS alone. They still have the tele-type sound and old Westinghouse/Group W font/logo and 20-20-20 news format.

At KFWB CBS, along with other management, really tinkered and altered the product since they acquired the former News 98, which some in and around the Wilshire complex claim was the reason for KFWB losing listeners.

 

[TheBigA]

KFWB was an expensive format on a 5K AM that got a 1 share. If you're going to do an expensive format, first put it on a powerful signal (both WINS and WCBS-AM are 50K), and then get great ratings.

The only AM stations that will survive with original programming are those with powerful signals. The rest will do what KFWB did.

 

[goriajk]

LKeller wrote "The comparison with KCBS (San Francisco) may not be relevant. Unlike KNX and KFWB, KCBS has consistently been a high rated station (12+) - usually number 3 behind KGO and KOIT (FM-light rock), even before the 106.9 FM simulcast. If I'm not mistaken, neither LA station has been in the Top 10 for years.

Over the years, a couple of competitors have tried to take on KCBS for All News- an AM station in the 80s, and a Westinghouse-owned FM in the 90s. Both were abject failures. Clearly, the Bay Area can't support more than one All News station - especially with KQED (NPR) sucking up a lot of the oxygen.

The same may now be true of LA - even if it is a much larger market." I believe KNX had the lock on 'ALL-NEWS' for a while - I really enjoy listening to 1070 alongside FM NPR station KPCC 89.3 - Larry Mantle's Airtalk is amazing stuff and I dig listening to Pat Morrison's afternoon talk show. I consider KPCC to be a nice 'competitor' to KNX (Similiar to KCBS and KQED - I'm always listening to 88.5 more than even 740/106.9 when I'm up in NorCal) ;D JG

 

[michael hagerty]

I was being just an little tongue-and-cheek talking about Saul Levine buying KFWB.

Going back to New York for an second, why has CBS left WINS alone. They still have the tele-type sound and old Westinghouse/Group W font/logo and 20-20-20 news format.

In the most recent PPMs, WCBS has a 4.4 and WINS a 4.0...making them #5 and #7, respectively.

If KNX and KFWB had both been top 10 stations and delivering an 8 combined, they wouldn't have tampered with KFWB. But both stations, pre-PPM, were running pretty much in the 1.2-1.7 range.

The thinking was that finding a unique niche for the weaker signal (KFWB) would allow KNX to consolidate the pure news audience and hopefully crack a 3. They're close to that now, moving 2.5-2.6-2.8.

Trouble is, CBS was no doubt hoping that the unique niche for KFWB would do better than a 0.7.

 

[LKellerIII]

The same may now be true of LA - even if it is a much larger market."[/i] I believe KNX had the lock on 'ALL-NEWS' for a while - I really enjoy listening to 1070 alongside FM NPR station KPCC 89.3 - Larry Mantle's Airtalk is amazing stuff and I dig listening to Pat Morrison's afternoon talk show. I consider KPCC to be a nice 'competitor' to KNX (Similiar to KCBS and KQED - I'm always listening to 88.5 more than even 740/106.9 when I'm up in NorCal) ;D JG

Truly. I don't think the influence of NPR can be underestimated. People on these boards like to make comments about how "somnolent" (sleep inducing) NPR is, or joke about their long reports of "flower arranging," but it really is compelling radio. And much more informative than regular newsradio, which is mostly a headline service interrupted constantly by commercials.

I don't consider myself any kind of intellectual, but I got hooked on NPR about a decade ago when I was commuting by car. I take public transit now, but still listen at least a few hours a week. If an occasional story is boring, I'll flip over to KCBS or a music station, but usually only for a few minutes, then I'm back.

I used to park in the morning in a big parking structure in Oakland. One morning, I sat in my car for awhile (to hear the end of an NPR story), and watched as at least a dozen other commuters arrived. The majority were also tuned in to KQED. I realize that's hardly Arbitron data, but I was impressed.

 

[michael hagerty]

I used to park in the morning in a big parking structure in Oakland. One morning, I sat in my car for awhile (to hear the end of an NPR story), and watched as at least a dozen other commuters arrived. The majority were also tuned in to KQED. I realize that's hardly Arbitron data, but I was impressed.

Llew:
You're not alone. KQED is #4 in the October PPMs with a 4.1. KGO with a 6.2, KCBS with a 5.8 and KOIT with a 4.4 are the only stations doing better.

Admittedly, San Francisco is unique...and KQED has been a force both in radio and TV for nearly 40 years....but there are other NPR success stories out there.

WAMU, Washington, D.C. is also #4 in October....with a 6.2, they're only 0.2 out of third place.

WABE, Atlanta is #7...with a 4.3, 0.4 out of sixth place.

And KNOW, Minneapolis is #6 with a 5.4.

And though those are the big stories, these top 20 markets are pretty remarkable for NPR, too:

Philadelphia: WHYY #15 with a 2.9.

Boston: WBUR #13 with a 3.9.

Miami: WLRN #13 with a 3.4...tying the top-rated commercial talker, WIOD.

Seattle: KUOW #12 with a 3.4...only 0.4 out of #10.

Phoenix: KJZZ #15 with a 3.3...only 0.2 out of #11.

San Diego: KPBS #13 with a 3.2...only 0.3 out of #11.

Denver: KCFR #14 with a 3.3...only 0.5 out of #9.

 

[flakunkel]

If memory serves correctly when Roy Laughlin came into the Wilshire complex over an year ago part of his plan for CBS was to turn KFWB into an "revenue stream station," or, operate on the cheap with brokered programming, paid commercials and syndicated programming and let the cash come in. (An turn-key operation.)

I wonder how well that strategy is working out?

There can be no doubt that the tinkering with KFWB over the past few years, since the Roger Nadel regime really, was deliberately setting it up to fail. Someone wanted an excuse to change the format, so they screwed around with it until it was unlistenable. Why that happened I cannot fathom, but there is simply no other explanation for the programming moves. No experienced broadcaster is that stupid.

It wasn't too many years ago that KFWB was beating KNX in ratings and throwing off 60% cash flow margins.
But somebody decided not spending money is more important than making money. So now, to use a phrase from a former employer, they're stepping over dollars to pick up quarters.

 

[Deluge]

Plain and simple CBS sold Dr. Laura for well over a month before the flip with corny and extremely cheesy spots undoubtedly aimed at females. She was the selling point for the N/T flip, she has failed and the OM's and PD's have also failed. They proved themselves out of touch with the general population, they cut vital traffic reporting which probably was the key element to KFWB's programming in the first place, and they have probably alienated a good majority of people who saw KFWB as a good L.A. news source.

Im not sure how KFWB recovers certainly not in the immediate term, and even if they flipped back to news which they probably should, it would take at least a few months for the station to gain back its credibility in the Southern California region.