CBS Radio News Closure: Effects on KCBS and San Francisco

[michael hagerty]

This is a challenge most stations won't be facing. KCBS...and KNX...will have to figure something out, and quick. As someone who worked in all-news radio once upon a time, I don't envy that challenge.

As a friend who has insight into Audacy told me a few minutes ago, they're going to want a one-stop solution for national and world news, and while ABC could work in San Francisco, it doesn't in other markets.

Whatever they do, they'd almost certainly prefer something that takes care of not just KCBS, but KNX, WBBM, KYW, WINS and any of the other Audacy stations that carry CBS Radio news.

 

[El Zilcho]

KABC would be an obvious choice, but those calls are already taken by a station in LA, which is, again, owned by Cumulus.

It seems the only reasonable choice would be KFRC, given that Audacy owns those calls outright as far as I know.

c

Also, if KCBS-AM’s calls somehow could get replaced with KGO, it would imply direct association with ABC7 on the TV side even though -AM and -TV haven’t been sisters in many years. It would widen a tangled web of brand associations to further mess with listeners’ minds.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Also, if KCBS-AM’s calls somehow could get replaced with KGO, it would imply direct association with ABC7 on the TV side even though -AM and -TV haven’t been sisters in many years. It would widen a tangled web of brand associations to further mess with listeners’ minds.

True too Paramount and WB has to have a clause that KCBS has to change their call letters it would have to be KFRC given that those call letters is associated with all-news for nearly 20 years on 106.9 FM San Francisco. Also KFRC is entirely owned by Audacy.

 

[KilowattKat]

We can look to Seattle to see how a longtime All News outlet successfully changed their calls and branding.

When Lotus purchased KOMO radio, they were required to change the calls when they separated from Sinclair owned KOMO-TV.

They became KNWN "Northwest News". It had no effect on the ratings.

 

[K.M. Richards]

True too Paramount and WB has to have a clause that KCBS has to change their call letters it would have to be KFRC given that those call letters is associated with all-news for nearly 20 years on 106.9 FM San Francisco. Also KFRC is entirely owned by Audacy.

Ummm, no.

The clause is that Audacy is allowed to keep the KCBS calls as long as 740 is All-News. It does not specify what they would have to change them to if that clause was called into force.

Reference WCBS/880 becoming WHSQ when Audacy consolidated all of its news operations with WINS/1010.

Your argument about 20 years' of news on KFRC-FM is a non-starter. I bet less than 5% of KCBS' audience knows what the calls on 106.9 are.

And WTF does WB have to do with this?

 

[fybush]

KM, please don't make assertions of fact when you're guessing. You're inevitably the first one to criticize others for doing the same.

The sale of CBS Radio to Entercom/Audacy came with different rules for different sets of shared calls. Most of the shared calls - WCCO, WBBM, WWJ, KDKA, KYW - can indeed be used indefinitely by the radio stations.

But the calls with "CBS" in them, WCBS-FM, KCBS and KCBS-FM, did come with a 20-year clause. By 2037, Audacy or its successor in interest will have to change those three calls or renegotiate for an extension.

If there's still radio at all, and if there's still a CBS.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Ummm, no.

The clause is that Audacy is allowed to keep the KCBS calls as long as 740 is All-News. It does not specify what they would have to change them to if that clause was called into force.

Reference WCBS/880 becoming WHSQ when Audacy consolidated all of its news operations with WINS/1010.

Your argument about 20 years' of news on KFRC-FM is a non-starter. I bet less than 5% of KCBS' audience knows what the calls on 106.9 are.

And WTF does WB have to do with this?

True too given all the coverage on the TV side on how that WB/Paramount deal affects TV apps specifically.

Audacy one is about how to respond to losing their affiliation with CBS News Radio and where to go from there. Also where does their soon to be former audience go.

 

[K.M. Richards]

KM, please don't make assertions of fact when you're guessing. You're inevitably the first one to criticize others for doing the same.

The sale of CBS Radio to Entercom/Audacy came with different rules for different sets of shared calls. Most of the shared calls - WCCO, WBBM, WWJ, KDKA, KYW - can indeed be used indefinitely by the radio stations.

But the calls with "CBS" in them, WCBS-FM, KCBS and KCBS-FM, did come with a 20-year clause. By 2037, Audacy or its successor in interest will have to change those three calls or renegotiate for an extension.

Hold on, Scott. I was only talking about the KCBS and WCBS calls. No others, and I was relying on what you previously corrected me on in the thread on the New York City board about 880.

Since when am I "guessing" when I quote information you provided?

Now, please explain to me, under the 20-year clause, why WCBS in New York had to change to WHSQ. I thought the format change was a trigger. Where, pray tell, did I misunderstand your explanation about that at the time?

 

[fybush]

You in your #25:

"The clause is that Audacy is allowed to keep the KCBS calls as long as 740 is All-News."

This has never been true. They are only allowed to keep the calls until 2037 under the terms of the 2017 sale.

The same applies to KCBS-FM and WCBS-FM.

So why did WCBS become WHSQ sooner than that? While I have seen the format change explanation a lot of places, I do not recall it having been specified in the 2017 contract, and it's way too late for me to go look up the contract tonight.

The better question, really, is why Audacy would have wanted to keep the WCBS calls on 880 once it began leasing the station out to Good Karma. It was in Audacy's interest to eliminate all traces of the old WCBS to consolidate its news audience on WINS. And Good Karma obviously doesn't much care what calls it mumbles once an hour on "ESPN 880," so why wait to have to change them eventually anyway.

 

[K.M. Richards]

No need to look it up. However I managed to misunderstand, it was that misunderstanding that caused me to post what I did.

But at least I did remember that it only applied to the calls with "CBS" in them and that there was nothing which would force Audacy to use KFRC instead.

 

[Weiserguy]

As a friend who has insight into Audacy told me a few minutes ago, they're going to want a one-stop solution for national and world news, and while ABC could work in San Francisco, it doesn't in other markets.

Whatever they do, they'd almost certainly prefer something that takes care of not just KCBS, but KNX, WBBM, KYW, WINS and any of the other Audacy stations that carry CBS Radio news.

1010 WINS really doesn't belong on that list with the others. It does not now, nor has it ever, carried the CBS News Radio hourlies. They might be taking the CBS inventory in exchange for affiliation and access to actualities, but they're not a true newscast affiliate. (In the NYC market, the newscasts air on Bloomberg 1130 (WBBR) in evenings, overnight and weekends.)

 

[Weiserguy]

There is a small non-comm Christian FM in Salina, Kansas, that has the perfect set of calls to replace KCBS. That station is KCVS. Since it's only on FM, there are two options: buy them outright from VCY, the station owner, or lease them for an annual payment (to be negotiated). This would work because KCBS already has KFRC on the FM, so only really needs revised calls for the AM. I can think of no set of four letters that are going to sound as similar to KCBS as KCVS, and would bet that 99-out-of-100 listeners wouldn't notice the change if it were done subtly. In fact, why couldn't Audacy continue to brand as KCBS everywhere in their hour except in the TOH legal ID, where "KCVS" could be slipped into the current ID to make it even more subtle? Maybe the sale agreement precludes doing that, but it is an idea, assuming Paramount-Skydance-Warner-Discovery-Ellison-Weiss-Zaslov could use a bit of petty cash themselves in exchange for a quick modification to the contract.

I can't imagine that VCY is so wedded to their calls that it would refuse the cash from a station 1500 miles away, especially when they could continue to keep using them on their Salina property.

 

[Yabadabado1]

These cuts are all a part of Paramount merging with WB. Note for Audacy specifically how they respond to the Shut Down of CBS News radio is yet to be seen such as stations like KCBS, KNX, WINS, KYW and WBBM having to either rename their national News service as Audacy News, or Infinity News if in fact Audacy wants to form their own news service.

I very much doubt Audacy will start their own national news service. They're deep in the hole financially and it would probably take a good chunk of money to start up a news service from scratch.

 

[michael hagerty]

There is a small non-comm Christian FM in Salina, Kansas, that has the perfect set of calls to replace KCBS. That station is KCVS. Since it's only on FM, there are two options: buy them outright from VCY, the station owner, or lease them for an annual payment (to be negotiated). This would work because KCBS already has KFRC on the FM, so only really needs revised calls for the AM. I can think of no set of four letters that are going to sound as similar to KCBS as KCVS, and would bet that 99-out-of-100 listeners wouldn't notice the change if it were done subtly. In fact, why couldn't Audacy continue to brand as KCBS everywhere in their hour except in the TOH legal ID, where "KCVS" could be slipped into the current ID to make it even more subtle? Maybe the sale agreement precludes doing that, but it is an idea, assuming Paramount-Skydance-Warner-Discovery-Ellison-Weiss-Zaslov could use a bit of petty cash themselves in exchange for a quick modification to the contract.

I can't imagine that VCY is so wedded to their calls that it would refuse the cash from a station 1500 miles away, especially when they could continue to keep using them on their Salina property.

KCBS doesn't have to worry about an involuntary call letter change for 11 years yet (see the post from @fybush above).

The reason I brought up a call letter change was twofold:


1-If there's too big an audience disconnect with KCBS having 100% less CBS ( Staff meeting: "I know! Let's just call it "K" ).

2-If Audacy wants to distance its brand from Bari Weiss' devaluation and destruction of CBS News' image and reputation.


In either of those cases, getting a set of soundalike calls leaves you with the same problem. That's why I suggested that since "All News 106-Nine and AM 740" is doing the lion's share of the lifting, the most painless thing would be to apply the KFRC calls to the AM as well. They've been in the legal ID every hour for 18 years.

Yeah, reporter lockouts would be "In San Jose, (reporter), KFRC" instead of "KCBS", but if the product sounds the same otherwise, I don't think that's a big deal.

And the legal ID is simple. Same voice, same music bed:

"When you need to know. KFRC-AM. KFRC-FM and HD-1. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose. An Audacy station."

The only other change is that you don't hear the CBS News intro after the ID---but you're not gonna hear that no matter what after May 22.

And---they don't make a big deal about the call letter change. There's no "KFRC is back!". San Francisco is a PPM market. Retention isn't the issue. This should sound as seamless as possible. Four letters swapped for four other letters they already own and use on the simulcast.

With reasons 1 and 2 near-term and the involuntary change coming in 2037, maybe they do it sooner rather than later. Maybe not.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Coincidentally, the lump sum payout from the pension I earned while at KCBS arrived yesterday. I'm glad to see CBS Corporate is still performing at their usual level of competence. Back in 1989 it took them 6 months to decide to spend the money to replace the directional antenna tower that fell in a windstorm. Today they insisted on sending a six figure paper check via regular USPS First Class Mail, not even Certified Mail with a signature of receipt. Nor did they offer direct deposit or any other electronic funds transfer. It's going into the bank tomorrow first thing Monday.

 

[radiofan2023]

Coincidentally, the lump sum payout from the pension I earned while at KCBS arrived yesterday. It may be emblematic of the organization that they insisted on sending a six figure paper check via USPS First Class Mail, not even Certified Mail with a signature of receipt. Nor did they offer direct deposit or any other electronic funds transfer. It's going into the bank tomorrow.

At least it didn't come with "Postage Due" stamped on it....

 

[K.M. Richards]

KCBS doesn't have to worry about an involuntary call letter change for 11 years yet (see the post from @fybush above).

Yep ... @Weiserguy is overthinking this.

That's why I suggested that since "All News 106-Nine and AM 740" is doing the lion's share of the lifting, the most painless thing would be to apply the KFRC calls to the AM as well. They've been in the legal ID every hour for 18 years.

And if -- big if, you seem to agree -- that's really an issue, Audacy can gradually reduce the use of the KCBS call letters. They have over a decade to do so.

Same thing with reporter lockouts ...

Yeah, reporter lockouts would be "In San Jose, (reporter), KFRC" instead of "KCBS", but if the product sounds the same otherwise, I don't think that's a big deal.

Adopt the frequency branding there as well. In fact, if the idea is to lessen the use of "KCBS" until the calls go away, that might be the logical place to start.

And---they don't make a big deal about the call letter change. There's no "KFRC is back!".

I think maybe the fanboys think that would be the case. The reality is, that no one would care, unless it meant going back to music and/or reacquiring 610 from Family Radio. Everyone else would go "HUH???"

With reasons 1 and 2 near-term and the involuntary change coming in 2037, maybe they do it sooner rather than later. Maybe not.

Or maybe either call letters will no longer be an issue by 2037. Or if they are, they are so lessened in importance that Audacy pays a one-time fee to whoever owns CBS by then to use them in perpetuity. I don't know about you, Mike, but my Magic 8-Ball™ doesn't look a decade into the future.

 

[KilowattKat]

There is a small non-comm Christian FM in Salina, Kansas, that has the perfect set of calls to replace KCBS. That station is KCVS. Since it's only on FM, there are two options: buy them outright from VCY, the station owner, or lease them for an annual payment (to be negotiated). This would work because KCBS already has KFRC on the FM, so only really needs revised calls for the AM. I can think of no set of four letters that are going to sound as similar to KCBS as KCVS, and would bet that 99-out-of-100 listeners wouldn't notice the change if it were done subtly. In fact, why couldn't Audacy continue to brand as KCBS everywhere in their hour except in the TOH legal ID, where "KCVS" could be slipped into the current ID to make it even more subtle? Maybe the sale agreement precludes doing that, but it is an idea, assuming Paramount-Skydance-Warner-Discovery-Ellison-Weiss-Zaslov could use a bit of petty cash themselves in exchange for a quick modification to the contract.

I can't imagine that VCY is so wedded to their calls that it would refuse the cash from a station 1500 miles away, especially when they could continue to keep using them on their Salina property.

What about the KCBS logo? I'm looking at it right now, picturing a V instead of a B. I don't like it, doesn't sit well with me. I can't stop thinking of the drug store chain. Maybe it would work with cross promotion. I imagine a lot of seniors standing in line at the pharmacy, probably listen to KCBS.

 

[K.M. Richards]

What about the KCBS logo?

Maybe it changes over a decade to first highlight the frequencies over the call letters, and then eliminate the "KCBS" completely as it stops being used on the air?

Not much different than how they phased out "1070" on KNX's logo. This is the current version, only a little over four years since the simulcast on what was KGBS-FM, KHTZ, KLSX, etc. was implemented:


We're talking eleven years before something has to happen. That's plenty of time (seven years longer, in fact) to implement changes gradually.

(I mention those three former 97.1 calls as a parallel of how some diehard fanboys would equate this with restoring the KFRC call letters.)

 

[cc333]

I just had a radical and unsettling thought:

What if Audacy simply decides to drop 740 AM and go FM only as KFRC? They wouldn't have to worry about the KCBS calls or operating an unprofitable AM anymore, and they could just make a clean break and ID simply as "All News 106.9, KFRC."

c