CBS Radio

[charles123]

Well CBS Radio did it again, they're launching another Top 40 format in New York (WKRK) tommorow at 5 as "92.3 Now FM", when will CBS Radio put a Top 40 format here? We need one to compete with KISS. Any thoughts??

 

[MikeShannon914]

I think you mean WXRK, the former Howard Stern flagship station once known as "K-Rock." Nah, no change anticipated here, since there seems to be a purdy-good handshake deal in this town that CC and CBS will not compete directly with each other. :

 

[Steve Eberhart]

I don't know about CBS, but a challenger to KISS right now might not be such a crazy idea.
Think about it, outside of PM drive, KISS is Vt or syndicated the rest of the day...With as many out of work talented jocks as there are around here, it seems one could easily afford some better than average air talent to go live at least 6a to 12a with a Top 40 CHR format...to offer a competitive advantage from KISS. Music intensive, high street presence, hip and LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL...and KISS has a lot of listeners, Movin' is gone....I like the chances.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

A great idea in theory, but that would require someone to actually spend money.

 

[scrtr84]

Great thoughts, Steve. Unfortunately the CONsultants will rant and rave about there being no point for two stations to go head-to-head against each other with the same format, regardless of what the format is. Welcome to corporate radio.

 

[txchipk]

Great thoughts, Steve. Unfortunately the CONsultants will rant and rave about there being no point for two stations to go head-to-head against each other with the same format, regardless of what the format is. Welcome to corporate radio.

With the exception of KKDA-FM and KRNB, all the stations that compete against each other in the same format are owned by corporate groups in this market. KZPS competes head-to-head with KDBN. KBFB against KKDA-FM. KSOC against KRNB. KTCK against KESN and KRLD-FM. KLIF against KSKY and WBAP and KRLD. KNOR and KBOC against KFZO/KDXX. KSCS against KPLX. KTCY against KMVK and KESS-FM. KLAK against KVIL. You could also toss in some of the competing religious outlets in head-to-head battles as well as KPMZ vs. KAAM in a duel of which station can belt out more Carpenters and Neil Diamond tunes to win the battle over who will dominate the hearts and minds of people living in assisted living centers.

 

[BBontheRadio]

KLAK doesn't reach most of DFW.

 

[scrtr84]

Great thoughts, Steve. Unfortunately the CONsultants will rant and rave about there being no point for two stations to go head-to-head against each other with the same format, regardless of what the format is. Welcome to corporate radio.

With the exception of KKDA-FM and KRNB, all the stations that compete against each other in the same format are owned by corporate groups in this market. KZPS competes head-to-head with KDBN. KBFB against KKDA-FM. KSOC against KRNB. KTCK against KESN and KRLD-FM. KLIF against KSKY and WBAP and KRLD. KNOR and KBOC against KFZO/KDXX. KSCS against KPLX. KTCY against KMVK and KESS-FM. KLAK against KVIL. You could also toss in some of the competing religious outlets in head-to-head battles as well as KPMZ vs. KAAM in a duel of which station can belt out more Carpenters and Neil Diamond tunes to win the battle over who will dominate the hearts and minds of people living in assisted living centers.

I mean as in the same, identical format. Notice for example, we only have 1 CHR station (KHKS), 1 oldies station (KLUV), etc. I'm not ready to put something like KLUV and KPMZ in the same format bin, for instance. Yeah everybody may share some of the content, but formatically there's very little in the way of direct, head-to-head competition.

 

[charles123]

I think you mean WXRK, the former Howard Stern flagship station once known as "K-Rock." Nah, no change anticipated here, since there seems to be a purdy-good handshake deal in this town that CC and CBS will not compete directly with each other. :

Sure they can, NY has WHTZ (owned by CC) & WXRK (owned by CBS Radio). If NY can have 2 Top 40 stations, Dallas can have 2 too.

 

[MikeShannon914]

Sure they can, NY has WHTZ (owned by CC) & WXRK (owned by CBS Radio). If NY can have 2 Top 40 stations, Dallas can have 2 too.

Sure, I get the logic, and indeed, there's no reason why CBS SHOULDN'T do that. I implied with the "purdy" comment that there seems to be some unwritten agreement that the two companies won't compete head-to-head in DFW. Sure, maybe it's imagined, but when you have some key management and sales figures that started at CC-Dallas, moved over to CBS-Dallas, then went back to CC-Dallas, you have to scratch your head and wonder sometimes. Yeah, it hurts both companies to compete these days (dividing the same pie,) and no one grasps the old idea that competition actually makes BOTH stations better. The last head-to-head test was with Sunny 97.1, which did start taking chunks out of KVIL's ratings before some moron flipped it to La Preciosa. Of course, that happened during the interim when the CC folks were still working at CBS.

 

[returnofbongo]

they will launch by the end of the month...AMPNOW105.3 Todays best NEW Sports Talk 40! Knowing the crew here, it will be 10,000 commercials in a row with brief song breaks. They will move the music to KRLD on the weekends when they will be all Cowboys...EXCEPT when they are ALL NASCAR...During play by play, G-Spit (his new on-air name) will run lap by lap coverage in between Cowboys plays. And on VERY special occasions, they will break all the rules and just play everything at the same time. I am sitting by my radio....waiting.

 

[txchipk]

Great thoughts, Steve. Unfortunately the CONsultants will rant and rave about there being no point for two stations to go head-to-head against each other with the same format, regardless of what the format is. Welcome to corporate radio.

With the exception of KKDA-FM and KRNB, all the stations that compete against each other in the same format are owned by corporate groups in this market. KZPS competes head-to-head with KDBN. KBFB against KKDA-FM. KSOC against KRNB. KTCK against KESN and KRLD-FM. KLIF against KSKY and WBAP and KRLD. KNOR and KBOC against KFZO/KDXX. KSCS against KPLX. KTCY against KMVK and KESS-FM. KLAK against KVIL. You could also toss in some of the competing religious outlets in head-to-head battles as well as KPMZ vs. KAAM in a duel of which station can belt out more Carpenters and Neil Diamond tunes to win the battle over who will dominate the hearts and minds of people living in assisted living centers.

I mean as in the same, identical format. Notice for example, we only have 1 CHR station (KHKS), 1 oldies station (KLUV), etc. I'm not ready to put something like KLUV and KPMZ in the same format bin, for instance. Yeah everybody may share some of the content, but formatically there's very little in the way of direct, head-to-head competition.

So, what is the difference between classic rock KZPS and classic rock KDBN that they are not the same format? Or urban AC KSOC and urban AC KRNB? Or urban KBFB and urban KKDA-FM? Or sports KESN and sports KRLD-FM and sports KTCK?

 

[PTBoardOp94]

And on VERY special occasions, they will break all the rules and just play everything at the same time. I am sitting by my radio....waiting.

Sounds like someone should invest in an HD Radio set.

 

[scrtr84]

Great thoughts, Steve. Unfortunately the CONsultants will rant and rave about there being no point for two stations to go head-to-head against each other with the same format, regardless of what the format is. Welcome to corporate radio.

With the exception of KKDA-FM and KRNB, all the stations that compete against each other in the same format are owned by corporate groups in this market. KZPS competes head-to-head with KDBN. KBFB against KKDA-FM. KSOC against KRNB. KTCK against KESN and KRLD-FM. KLIF against KSKY and WBAP and KRLD. KNOR and KBOC against KFZO/KDXX. KSCS against KPLX. KTCY against KMVK and KESS-FM. KLAK against KVIL. You could also toss in some of the competing religious outlets in head-to-head battles as well as KPMZ vs. KAAM in a duel of which station can belt out more Carpenters and Neil Diamond tunes to win the battle over who will dominate the hearts and minds of people living in assisted living centers.

I mean as in the same, identical format. Notice for example, we only have 1 CHR station (KHKS), 1 oldies station (KLUV), etc. I'm not ready to put something like KLUV and KPMZ in the same format bin, for instance. Yeah everybody may share some of the content, but formatically there's very little in the way of direct, head-to-head competition.

So, what is the difference between classic rock KZPS and classic rock KDBN that they are not the same format? Or urban AC KSOC and urban AC KRNB? Or urban KBFB and urban KKDA-FM? Or sports KESN and sports KRLD-FM and sports KTCK?

Let me steer this back to my original point. I was simply expressing the fact that CONsultants will discourage head-to-head competition. Personally, I think competition is a good thing, but CONsultants do not. More power to the stations that actually try it, in my book.

 

[little1]

Let me steer this back to my original point. I was simply expressing the fact that CONsultants will discourage head-to-head competition. Personally, I think competition is a good thing, but CONsultants do not. More power to the stations that actually try it, in my book.

Maybe because the consultants understand some marketing basics.

http://www.quickmba.com/marketing/ries-trout/marketing-warfare/

Go down to the part about the nature of the battlefield. And how the market leader 'owns' the top of the mountain. And how challengers have to try to knock the leader off that mountain.

Good program directors (and yes, some Consultants) know that if a station can make it's own mountain in the listeners mind, they don't have to beat the station who's atop a mountain, they've created their own mountain.

For example, WBAP and KLIF and KSKY are all "talk'. But by 1360 poisitioning themselves as "Progressive Talk" they have already IN THE LISTENERS MIND set themselves apart from the conservative voices that dominate most talk radio.

But the most importantthing to remember is that stations from different formats can compete for the same demographic audience. It doesn't matter that KPLX and KVIL don't compete head-to-head formatically. they ARE competing head-to-head for the W25-44 demographic.

Think about the reaction here when CBS flipped 105.3. People were hacked that their "hot talk" station was going away for 'another sports station'. Hot talk (or guy talk, call it what you will) is still a TALK format. Calling it hot talk is just a way to distinguish it IN THE LISTENERS MIND from stations that carry Rush, Sean, Beck, oreilly, Hewitt, etc...
And KRLD-FM's problem is that KTCK owns the sports mountain, ESPN has their own slightly smaller mountain. There is only so much dirt left to make their own mountain. And if you read Ries and Trout, it's ALWAYS easier for those on the mountain top to defend against the upstart than for the upstart to win the battle and take over the mountain...

(and hey BTW, nice job ducking txChip's point. He provides EIGHT examples of stations competing head-to-head and you manage to ignore all of it... )

 

[txchipk]

Great thoughts, Steve. Unfortunately the CONsultants will rant and rave about there being no point for two stations to go head-to-head against each other with the same format, regardless of what the format is. Welcome to corporate radio.

With the exception of KKDA-FM and KRNB, all the stations that compete against each other in the same format are owned by corporate groups in this market. KZPS competes head-to-head with KDBN. KBFB against KKDA-FM. KSOC against KRNB. KTCK against KESN and KRLD-FM. KLIF against KSKY and WBAP and KRLD. KNOR and KBOC against KFZO/KDXX. KSCS against KPLX. KTCY against KMVK and KESS-FM. KLAK against KVIL. You could also toss in some of the competing religious outlets in head-to-head battles as well as KPMZ vs. KAAM in a duel of which station can belt out more Carpenters and Neil Diamond tunes to win the battle over who will dominate the hearts and minds of people living in assisted living centers.

I mean as in the same, identical format. Notice for example, we only have 1 CHR station (KHKS), 1 oldies station (KLUV), etc. I'm not ready to put something like KLUV and KPMZ in the same format bin, for instance. Yeah everybody may share some of the content, but formatically there's very little in the way of direct, head-to-head competition.

So, what is the difference between classic rock KZPS and classic rock KDBN that they are not the same format? Or urban AC KSOC and urban AC KRNB? Or urban KBFB and urban KKDA-FM? Or sports KESN and sports KRLD-FM and sports KTCK?

Let me steer this back to my original point. I was simply expressing the fact that CONsultants will discourage head-to-head competition. Personally, I think competition is a good thing, but CONsultants do not. More power to the stations that actually try it, in my book.

Over the last year and half, almost all of the CBS "corporate radio" flips around the country (the original post of this thread) have been to "head-to-head competition." KLLI was flipped to the 3rd sports outlet (KRLD-FM) is this market. CBS' talk WCKG was flipped to AC WCFS to take on Clear Channel's AC WLIT Chicago. CBS' smooth jazz KHJZ was flipped to top 40 KKHH to take on Cumulus' KRBE. CBS' talk KLSX was changed to top 40 "Amp" to take on CC's KIIS Los Angeles. CBS' rock WXRK was changed to top 40 "Now" to take on CC's WHTZ New York. CBS' talk WHFS was changed to become sports WJZ-FM, the 4th head-to-head competitor of that format in that market.

 

[returnofbongo]

competition requires commitment (when done correctly). CBS Radio Dallas has shown that they lack the heart to compete and have no taste for the blood that often accompanies the battle. David Lee Roth, Opie and Anthony, Movin... When the goin gets tough, CBS Radio Dallas gets goin. Brian Purdy may have a handshake deal not to compete with CC but he is not going to have a choice. AMP in LA will have success as will NOW in NY. I do believe that CBS will bail out of The FAN, that is their out with NASCAR. They will either bail out on the Cowboy deal or put it on JACK. You will see an AMP or a NOW in Dallas by July. The reason why is because the folks at The Ticket do what they do...better. ESPN has the name and they aren't going anywhere. The fan will be a .5 radio station and THAT is not going to fly. Play 10,000 songs, buy a few boards perhaps some TV in a soft market, you won't beat Kiss, but you could get a 2 share, that is more their style.

 

[scrtr84]

(and hey BTW, nice job ducking txChip's point. He provides EIGHT examples of stations competing head-to-head and you manage to ignore all of it... )

No, I didn't. : However I will say this, the two of you are contradicting each other. Very nice.

 

[little1]

We're not contradicting each other at all.
In fact if you re-read it, you'll notice that I use one of his EIGHT examples in my argument.

The point I was trying to make is that in this day and age many stations don't "appear" to be direct competitors-because they don't share a format- but they ARE direct competitors for the same demographic group.

Dig into the ratings and while it's obvious that KPLX and KSCS are competitors, it's also obvious that KPLX and KVIL are both battling for the 30 (or 40) -something soccer mom demographic.

So to clearly state where I'm coming from, not only do I agree with Chip that there's a load of direct competitors (the 8 he mentioned, plus many others) there's also a ton of competition that isn't directly obvious at first glance-that takes access to more than just the 6+ ratings, and a little knowledge of demographics and statistics, to understand.

Perhaps that's something you're lacking...