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CBS Sports Radio Shows To Be Divvied Up By WFAN-AM AND WFAN-FM?

I think they should put the new CBS Sports radio on 101.9-fm and leave WFAN on 660. Its too powerful of a signal and too weak of a signal or switch the 2. Too many people listen to 660 and have for YEARS. 660 Goes south from NYC down into Virginia and I'm not even sure how south or west it goes. I know up into Conneticut. Just put the national guys on 101.9. 660 will still hold the numbers in NYC and beyond. The currant hosts will lose a HUGE audience going to FM.
 
iloveradio93173 said:
I think they should put the new CBS Sports radio on 101.9-fm and leave WFAN on 660. Its too powerful of a signal and too weak of a signal or switch the 2. Too many people listen to 660 and have for YEARS. 660 Goes south from NYC down into Virginia and I'm not even sure how south or west it goes. I know up into Conneticut. Just put the national guys on 101.9. 660 will still hold the numbers in NYC and beyond. The currant hosts will lose a HUGE audience going to FM.

Agreed. It just goes to show how stupid the people at CBS are. These decisions are coming from suits who do not live in New York, and who do not know New York radio. All they see is an AM & FM station. Further reason why terrestrial radio sucks nowadays and it's going to get worse :mad:
 
FrankF said:
These decisions are coming from suits who do not live in New York, and who do not know New York radio. All they see is an AM & FM station. Further reason why terrestrial radio sucks nowadays and it's going to get worse :mad:

CBS suits don't live in NY? Huh?

The Mushnick article ignores the fact that the most important issue is clearing the commercials, not the shows, in NYC.
 
FrankF said:
Agreed. It just goes to show how stupid the people at CBS are. These decisions are coming from suits who do not live in New York, and who do not know New York radio. All they see is an AM & FM station. Further reason why terrestrial radio sucks nowadays and it's going to get worse :mad:

Yeah! It's so stupid of them to use an FM signal that covers the entire metro to reach younger listeners with their programming!! What a dumb move!

/sarcasm

If you can't hear 101.9, you're outside the sales area. If you're outside the sales area, what's the point in catering to you?
 
iloveradio93173 said:
I think they should put the new CBS Sports radio on 101.9-fm and leave WFAN on 660. Its too powerful of a signal and too weak of a signal or switch the 2. Too many people listen to 660 and have for YEARS. 660 Goes south from NYC down into Virginia and I'm not even sure how south or west it goes. I know up into Conneticut. Just put the national guys on 101.9. 660 will still hold the numbers in NYC and beyond. The currant hosts will lose a HUGE audience going to FM.

It doesn't matter what numbers WFAN gets outside of the NYC market. It doesn't add to the bottom line. If 3 people in Virginia are listening, good for them, but it makes no difference to CBS.
 
There's always some theory-grumbling in Philadelphia about CBS fiddling with their 50,000 watt omni WPHT vis-a-vis Phillies games, so part of it all is likely based somewhere.

CBS no doubt is watching, with a microscope, ESPN 98.7's numbers. They will know which dayparts are contestible ; if those numbers are discernably younger ; how valuable 98.7 actually is to ESPN, and go from there.
Numbers are being crunched as we speak for the performances on 101.9 to determine those same conditions.

What likely makes the most sense is an AM-FM simulcast of the money dayparts, and the CBS Network on FM for the rest of the day.
With life as usual on 660.
660 reaches more counties in the overall NY metro market than any FM does, especially at night, when most of the games will be played. The baseball games will continue on 880 and 660. Those big signals are just as desirable and prestigious for the Mets & Yankees as they are for CBS sales.
Any slacker shows on 660 .... maybe a weekend slump -- vulnerable ratings-wise or performing amid undesirable demos ..... could see some CBS Network simulcast. After all, ESPN largely moved their AM voices to FM. Why can't 101.9 contiue to simulcast at least one of the big AM money shows as well ?

Also : This proposed shuffling of a fixed deck and dealing high cards to different dayparts and different dials apparently, right now, is publicly Mushnick's speculation, not that of a CBS source (at least not publicly).
 
Steve Green NEPA said:
What likely makes the most sense is an AM-FM simulcast of the money dayparts, and the CBS Network on FM for the rest of the day.
With life as usual on 660.

The problem is that the minute they break up the simulcast, they lose the advantage of the additive ratings. Advertisers will see that the individual numbers, rather than the combined figure. WFAN is the #1 sports station now. That would change if the stations split, even for one show.

What makes the most sense is focus on programming the best local sports station in NYC, and don't worry about the network.

Steve Green NEPA said:
Also : This proposed shuffling of a fixed deck and dealing high cards to different dayparts and different dials apparently, right now, is publicly Mushnick's speculation, not that of a CBS source (at least not publicly).

Exactly, and Mushnick's article ignores the fact that CBS is getting paid by Cumulus for this network. So all their expenses are covered. It doesn't matter how much they spent on Jim Rome. They make money on the network even without an NYC clear for programming.
 
Although, through force of habit, we all think 660 has a better signal in the NY market, with the possible exception of Eastern Suffolk County on Long Island, the 101.9 signal is cleaner and clearer day and night in the NY Radio Market Counties that matter for the day-to-day ratings and ad sales. Drive around and A-B the two signals for yourselves. Depending on location, 660 can have electrical interference problems that 101.9 doesn't have.

Remember, Westchester, Rockland, and Putnam counties are the only Hudson Valley counties that matter. In Jersey, Sussex, Warren, Ocean, Mercer and Hunterdon, are all outside the market that counts. And in Connecticut only a small part of Fairfield County matters in the ratings. So, 101.9 has the better signal in the market, for ratings driven day-to-day sales, and it probably offers better demos too.

On the other hand, 660 has a massive long distance signal, especially at night, and therefore would work much better for a national network trying to attract a national audience, even if that out-of-market audience doesn't count in the ratings, the coverage will help build the national brand.

And when it comes to game coverage, even though the Yankees are on a similar massive AM signal, from the same tower, they still have affiliate stations in adjacent markets to serve those fans who still live close enough to go to the stadium for games. And the Jets and Giants have similar adjacent market arrangements.

The most likely scenario is that 660 goes mostly national, 101.9 talks local, and both stations are available for major sports team games like the Yankees, Mets, and Giants. Basketball and Hockey can, probably, more than adequately cover their fan base on FM, and can arrange for adjacent market affiliates if they think it necessary.

But when it comes to ratings and sales for day-to-day sports talk within the defined Arbitron market, the FM signal is the more important one, and if it isn't today, it, undoubtedly, will be very soon.
 
If it was that easy...it would have already been done!
 
iloveradio93173 said:
If it was that easy...it would have already been done!

Not necessarily. While I think TimeIsTight is right on the money in his analysis of the 660 vs. 101.9 signals within the Arbitron metro, there are other factors at play in a move like the one WFAN is making. Remember, CBS has access to an important chunk of data that the rest of us don't get to see: they are presumably paying for detailed research telling them how much of the 660 audience has migrated to 101.9 over the months since the simulcast began.

The simulcast needed to happen at first, and needed to stay in place for a while, to allow the combined 660+101.9 numbers to remain comfortably higher than WEPN. CBS couldn't risk even a single ratings period in which a non-simulcast 101.9 (or 660) showed lower than 98.7. (From being on the other end of a sports battle in Boston, CBS knows all too well the psychological value of a ratings win by the upstart.)

And, as has been explored ad nauseam here and on other boards, there are a bunch of competing factors at play that make this more complicated than just a "what's best for WFAN by itself" equation. Left to its own devices, local WFAN management would surely love to retain the simulcast indefinitely, but CBS corporate didn't pay $75 million just for a simulcast. The network obviously wants the New York clearance for both its spot load and its actual programming, sooner rather than later. And the Yankees/Mets rights issues no doubt play a big role, too. If there's any player in this drama that really does have an economic interest in the wide reach of a 50 kilowatt clear-channel AM, it's the Yankees...and maybe the Mets, too. (But both teams would probably like to be on a full-city FM, too, which complicates matters: since the Mets will presumably be on 101.9 this year, how does CBS keep the Yanks happy, knowing that at the end of the current one-year deal, ESPN has an FM outlet they can wave at the Steinbrenners too?)

But in the end, I think the most important number in this decision-making process is the one we don't get to see: as soon as CBS' internal numbers show that 101.9 by itself can pull better numbers than 98.7, and as soon as the baseball teams can be satisfied, that's when the simulcast will end.
 
Could CBS decide to consolidate all-news on WCBS-880 and flip WINS-1010 to CBS Sports Radio (since they can't buy any other New York-area radio station unless they sold=-off an existing outlet)??

Some years back, CBS consolidated all-news in Los Angeles (they once had two all-news stations in L.A., KFWB-980 and KNX-1070) onto KNX.
 
Joseph_Gallant said:
Some years back, CBS consolidated all-news in Los Angeles (they once had two all-news stations in L.A., KFWB-980 and KNX-1070) onto KNX.

The current problem is that WINS is getting much better ratings than WCBS. So it might be the other way around. The complication in LA was that CBS was over the ownership limits, and had to spin off one AM. KFWB became that station.

But neither is very likely for the short term. And I really don't expect any effort to be made by the folks at WFAN to accomodate CBS Sports Network. As long as they're increasing their billings, they'll have the independence from corporate to do what they want. If that changes, then all bets are off.
 
Joseph_Gallant said:
Could CBS decide to consolidate all-news on WCBS-880 and flip WINS-1010 to CBS Sports Radio (since they can't buy any other New York-area radio station unless they sold=-off an existing outlet)??

What company spends $75 million to create an AM-FM simulcast, then "consolidates" two of the top-billing stations in the market (to make room for a low-billing network outlet) and leaves the far less profitable simulcast alone?

I enjoy a good speculative thread as much as the next guy, but it's nice to at least stay somewhere in the neighborhood of reality...
 
I really don't expect any effort to be made by the folks at WFAN to accomodate CBS Sports Network. As long as they're increasing their billings, they'll have the independence from corporate to do what they want.

Follow the money! There is no way that whatever increase in billings WFAN can produce, thanks to the simulcast, that the bigger corporate goal of having a complete national sports talk network can be delayed indefinitely. CBS spent $75-million for 101.9 to develop a second revenue stream, and to allow its national sports talk network to be on a respectable signal in the top market.

There is no doubt that there is potentially more money to be made from that big national network than from any local station, even in the top market. And that network isn't really in the national game without being on in NYC.

In the end, its all about "corporate" earning per share, and not the, relatively, small contribution of any one individual radio station in reaching that goal. The local stations just may have to give up some audience and revenue in order to make the corporation more profitable. The only thing that matters is increasing shareholder value, and reporting good earnings news each quarter.

It's not a matter of "if" the national network will be carried on 660, it's a matter of when, and sooner, rather than later.

Again, two revenue streams are better than one, and the mortgage payments on that $75-million FM purchase are due every month, and with a simulcast there is no separate revenue stream to pay that big bill.
 
TimeIsTight said:
There is no doubt that there is potentially more money to be made from that big national network than from any local station, even in the top market. And that network isn't really in the national game without being on in NYC.

CBS Radio isn't in the network business. They are content providers for others who are. CBS News provides content for Dial Global. CBS Sports provides content for Cumulus. Cumulus pays CBS Sports a fee plus a revenue share. The fee covers the costs plus a profit, and the revenue share is supposed to make up for lost income on their stations. But right now, that's hard to do on WFAN. The main thing that makes WFAN a top biller is their ability to make money on content other than spots. The CBS Sports Network is only a spot based network. So they are more likely to make more money from their local programming than by carrying a national network. The CBS Radio division has it's own President. So does CBS Sports. Sure there is some co-operation, but CBS Radio is not going to lose money or lower the quality of its few NYC properties just so the CBS Sports President can get a bigger bonus. It HAS to make more money than local programming.
 
CBS Sports provides content for Cumulus. Cumulus pays CBS Sports a fee plus a revenue share.

For what it's worth, CBS describes its arrangement with Cumulus regarding the CBS Sports Network as "a partnership" with Cumulus as the exclusive distribution and sales "partner." In other words, Cumulus handles affiliate relations and spot sales. And at startup last year, CBS Sports Network content was carried on 67 Cumulus stations.

But what does matter is:
Cumulus pays CBS Sports a fee plus a revenue share.
if that is true, then CBS will want its share of that separate network revenue in NYC. It didn't buy a $75-million FM, without plans to increase its overall revenue more than just what simulcasting an AM can provide.

The CBS Sports Network is only a spot based network. So they are more likely to make more money from their local programming than by carrying a national network.

The CBS Sports Network carries national spots that have to be cleared in NYC, probably has some that are supposed to run adjacent to specific network content. It is the "corporation" that makes more money from the network and not, necessarily, the local station which sends whatever it earns to the corporation anyway.

The CBS Radio division has it's own President. So does CBS Sports. Sure there is some co-operation, but CBS Radio is not going to lose money or lower the quality of its few NYC properties just so the CBS Sports President can get a bigger bonus.

You have to remember, increasing shareholder value and earnings per share is the ultimate goal, and that is why the "rival" (in this situation) presidents of CBS Radio and CBS Sports both report to Corporate President and CEO Les Moonves, and he reports to Sumner Redstone.

Increasing shareholder value, and creating respectable earnings per share is Moonves' responsibility, and its, ultimately, his call.

You can be sure he had a strategy in mind for WFAN when the purchase of 101.9 was approved, and when the organization decided to go into the national Sports Talk business. Follow the big corporate money, and not the accounting results of individual stations. to see where all this is going. The local stations are just small parts of the much bigger corporate picture.
 
I'm curious why some observers think CBS would move The Fan to FM and use 660 for CBS Sports Network. Why would the powers behind the network want to put it on the AM signal? I can think of several reasons not to.

For one, the FM signal is simply much better in most of the NYMetro market, and the AM's daytime signal doesn't extend all that much farther. To the extent that it does reach people 50+ miles from the city -- well, wouldn't the national network want to sign up local affiliates out there?

Then at night, when the AM's signal carries (although with varying quality) to dozens of states -- the station would be carrying live NY games, not network programming, anyhow.

Meanwhile, WFAN is an established brand at 660 -- and 101.9 might as well be a brand-new frequency, since it has no existing listener base. Moving WFAN to FM and putting the network on AM would amount to launching two new stations, trying to break old listener habits and create new ones, all at once.

Wouldn't it make the most sense to create a new station at 101.9 and leave WFAN where it is? Perhaps with some cross-over content, like a simulcast morning show and maybe simulcast network shows in late-night and other off-hours. I'm curious to hear why anyone thinks CBS might do the opposite.
 
For one, the FM signal is simply much better in most of the NYMetro market, and the AM's daytime signal doesn't extend all that much farther. To the extent that it does reach people 50+ miles from the city -- well, wouldn't the national network want to sign up local affiliates out there?

Really? I can drive 660 from Philadelphia to Hartford during the day. It shows up in both markets. I can also drive 660 up to Albany. 101.9 can't do that.
 
TimeIsTight said:
For what it's worth, CBS describes its arrangement with Cumulus regarding the CBS Sports Network as "a partnership" with Cumulus as the exclusive distribution and sales "partner."

As I said, CBS is not in the network business. This is not their network to distribute or sell. Therefore, getting a New York affiliate is not their problem. It's a Cumulus problem. CBS will clear some spots as a favor, but there is no commitment to carry the entire network.

TimeIsTight said:
The CBS Sports Network carries national spots that have to be cleared in NYC, probably has some that are supposed to run adjacent to specific network content.

I don't know of any network that requires spots to run adjacent to programming. Even spots in CBS TOH newscasts can run out of show.

TimeIsTight said:
It is the "corporation" that makes more money from the network and not, necessarily, the local station which sends whatever it earns to the corporation anyway.

The "corporation" will make that money regardless of the NYC clear. It gets paid a fee for the network. And WFAN will clear some spots. That's the end of their obligation. Distribution is a Cumulus problem. Cumulus just spent $40 million on a NYC radio station. They could have put sports there, but didn't. So now Cumulus is in default.

TimeIsTight said:
Increasing shareholder value, and creating respectable earnings per share is Moonves' responsibility, and its, ultimately, his call.

As I said, CBS gets paid regardless. Does CBS want to corrupt one of it's highest billers to help Cumulus do it's job? How does that help Moonves? They get 100% of the money if they run local programming. If they run the network, they share the money with a competitor. How does that help Moonves?
 
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