20 year sj pioneer wqcd/ny shockingly flipped to rock this afternoon. likely fueled by concerns with the ppm and smooth jazz and the fact rock has done well with it in philly. maybe someone else picks it up in the market, but i sure don't see a likely candidate. any way you slice it, a dark day for the smooth jazz format. wonder how allen kepler's iced tea went down this afternoon?
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cd 101.9 gone, death knell for format?
- Thread starter orange434
- Start date
that's a hit to be sure. but there's still WNUA/Chicago, KKSF/SF-OAK-SJ, The Wave/LA and WSJT/Tampa-St. Pete that are still doing well, not to mention KIFM/SD, it's just that it has to be in major markets.
someone else will pick it up in NYC, the markets are oversaturated with rock as it is. the rockers have all gone to iPods!
someone else will pick it up in NYC, the markets are oversaturated with rock as it is. the rockers have all gone to iPods!
Another one bites the dust and banished to HD. I can remember when SJ was THE new format to be in. Salesguys selling quality of audience over quantity - and it working. Lots of adult promotion. Very clean, classy direct marketing. Station magazines, great websites, cool promotions supported by excellent direct mail with carefully selected lists formulated with PRIZM Clusters (yeah, I'm a marketing guy).
I'm reading the other posts on the NYC board and no one seems to be saddened by a 20-year station biting the dust. In fact quite the opposite - this seems to be an exciting and positive event for most here. But I'm not a New Yorker, maybe that's why I don't get it. Oh no, not that. I get Ratings and Revenue. I get CCU just announces huge cuts and others following suit. I get a hole in the market. I know there are other non-commercial jazz outlets. I get all that.
I don't get giving up a strong (for NY) position and brand, loyal, long-listening audience and top-5 TSL (English Language). But then I don't get their revenue reports either.
I dunno why I'm upset about this, I just am. People are out of work, families uprooted etc. etc.
Emmis. Truth. But in the end, just like the others. Maybe someone could (gently - be nice) set me straight.
I'm reading the other posts on the NYC board and no one seems to be saddened by a 20-year station biting the dust. In fact quite the opposite - this seems to be an exciting and positive event for most here. But I'm not a New Yorker, maybe that's why I don't get it. Oh no, not that. I get Ratings and Revenue. I get CCU just announces huge cuts and others following suit. I get a hole in the market. I know there are other non-commercial jazz outlets. I get all that.
I don't get giving up a strong (for NY) position and brand, loyal, long-listening audience and top-5 TSL (English Language). But then I don't get their revenue reports either.
I dunno why I'm upset about this, I just am. People are out of work, families uprooted etc. etc.
Emmis. Truth. But in the end, just like the others. Maybe someone could (gently - be nice) set me straight.
T
tsjclkt362
Guest
OH BUT HOW WRONG YOU ARE! I AM SADDENED BY THIS AND VERY ANGRY! I NEVER EVEN GOT TO HEAR THIS STATION AT ALL!!! IT NEVER EVEN STREAMED!!! 20 YEARS AND NO STREAMING? WHOEVER PROGRAMS AND MANAGES THESE EMMIS STATIONS IN NYC IS ON SOME KIND OF DRUG OR SOMETHING!! OTHERWISE THEY WOULD HAVE STREAMED!! SO YEAH I AM ONE WHO IS VERY UPSET BY THIS!!!
NamJock said:
Interesting ....... 4 new folks to the SJ page because of the loss of QCD. Welcome and read the other threads and understand the frustration of some folks very passionate about the music. In a sense NYC should be glad they did not have to go through the BA network to try and save the station.
Nock
Nock
W
WTUX
Guest
WQCD had been on shakey ground for years. They tried "Chill" and various music ticks over the years, for reasons I could never understand. I am thankful it lasted as long as it did. Now, maybe owners with a love for the format will pick it up.
Nock said:
The smooth jazz stations beginning to disappear from the landscape isn't unexpected. Remember all the "beautiful music" stations that proliferated on the FM dial back 30 years ago? All but a handful of them remain on the air today, and I believe that's what we're going to eventually see happen to smooth jazz, at least on broadcast radio. Most of the smooth jazz fans are now part of the older demographics that many advertisers don't want. It's sad, but true...
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The evolution of smooth jazz has been discussed on many posts in the last few weeks but this is a change of huge magnitude. I can also see Alan Kempler on a plane to New York as fast as he could get there to pitch the BA network to some poor under performing signal who would love to have what CD101 had. As usual all the details of the pitch will be left out because BA will tell them that they have everything under control and the new operator will not have to worry about a thing (yea right). CD101 was not as strong as the SJ stations in other markets like Chicago, Seattle, San Diego and Los Angeles to name a few but it was a bold move to kill twenty years of programming especially for a company who likes innovation and tried to make a change not long ago. Even though the change did not have the desired results, it was a change and they took a chance so a pat on the back for trying. Wouldn't you have thought that Emmis had bigger problems in Los Angeles with "Movin" than they did in NY? Or was this part of the "46 less on the payroll" news we're also reading about? Emmis, Saga and the rest who dabble in smooth jazz without the commitment needed are just as bad as the CC's of the world. Is there a schedule when the sanity returns?
i'm trying to think who would be the most likely candidate in ny for BA to surface on...long story short i don't see it happening:
92.3 - people make the connection because cbs runs ktwv in los angeles, but cbs recently did the exact same thing that happened in nyc and blew up a heritage sj in dallas. they own 95.7 in houston which is taking a big hit with the PPM. and why would they want to potentially hurt 102.7 fresh? doesn't make sense to me.
95.5 - qcd could have used plj's sales staff because plj must have the best in the world to justify keeping their format with their +12 numbers. citadel just saw their smooth jazz stick in DC take a two point hit and dcrtv seems to hinting changes might be on the horizon there, so i don't see them picking sj up here.
104.3 - lots of rock in the market now so q104 likely takes a hit, but even if it does is it worth dumping it to a format with more aging demos than classic rock? and again you have the fact smooth jazz might hurt cash cow lite fm. not gonna happen.
92.3 - people make the connection because cbs runs ktwv in los angeles, but cbs recently did the exact same thing that happened in nyc and blew up a heritage sj in dallas. they own 95.7 in houston which is taking a big hit with the PPM. and why would they want to potentially hurt 102.7 fresh? doesn't make sense to me.
95.5 - qcd could have used plj's sales staff because plj must have the best in the world to justify keeping their format with their +12 numbers. citadel just saw their smooth jazz stick in DC take a two point hit and dcrtv seems to hinting changes might be on the horizon there, so i don't see them picking sj up here.
104.3 - lots of rock in the market now so q104 likely takes a hit, but even if it does is it worth dumping it to a format with more aging demos than classic rock? and again you have the fact smooth jazz might hurt cash cow lite fm. not gonna happen.
Several of these new posters just cut and pasted the posts they did on the NYC board. My call is that Kepler will have the turnkey format w. no live jocks on some station by the end of the month and be shouting that they are such heros for bringing Smooth Jazz back to NYC.
CD1019s traditional Valentines Day concert w. Al Jarreau is coming up on the 14th, which means there will be a lot of disgruntled SJ fans in one place. I just see BA trying to get a quick affiliate so they can announce it at this gig. hmmm.
CD1019s traditional Valentines Day concert w. Al Jarreau is coming up on the 14th, which means there will be a lot of disgruntled SJ fans in one place. I just see BA trying to get a quick affiliate so they can announce it at this gig. hmmm.
C
cklw800
Guest
Another Cat, I think you hit the knell on the dead. It looks more grim for the format now than it did when the network first started clipping away at local jobs. I'm impressed with the Internet sites people have posted. Whoa! Some great listening! Two years ago I posted that the future of this music over-the-air is specialty programming, which is the way it started out. With the "J"-word slowly being clipped and the future of Washington D.C.'s and Phildelphia's stations being of some concern you won't even hear the words "smooth jazz" on the air anymore. It's already starting. It's more like "Soft Urban AC". That harkens back to the "Quiet Storm" days. With the new fees a threat, we'd better enjoy our online listening while we can. Any chance of jobs in this arena are all but gone. Glad I'm in another format that has absolutely no identity crisis. Shame because the new CDs by the artists in the R&R Smooth Jazz Top 20 are superb! We hear that on the Internet right now. Those other cuts. Nice! As recently as 2004 it was a fun format to listen to, then the bottom fell out. iPod time! I have XM now too. Decided to break down and get it. Wonderful! We have to sit back and watch how BA reacts. I don't think the larger groups have faith in such a mixed-results format and one that is currently so misunderstood. Struggling small operators looking for a lifeline might fall for the pitch. We'll need to watch NY, Philly and D.C between now and the start of the spring book.
terrific quotes on R&R today from people pretty much echoing the great points brought up on this board: http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRWebSite/Format_RoomPage.aspx?FormatID=12
i disagree with the first person in the article who stated that satellite radio smooth jazz is bland also...sirius' jazz cafe i agree doesn't do much for me, but xm watercolors is how a contemporary/smooth jazz station should sound IMHO. it's no coincidence that watercolors is one of xm's most popular channels.
the rest of the article though is terrific. i wish someone, somewhere, could convince the gm's in charge of the majority of stations in the sj realm who fall for BA hook, line & sinker that music testing is killing this format.
i disagree with the first person in the article who stated that satellite radio smooth jazz is bland also...sirius' jazz cafe i agree doesn't do much for me, but xm watercolors is how a contemporary/smooth jazz station should sound IMHO. it's no coincidence that watercolors is one of xm's most popular channels.
the rest of the article though is terrific. i wish someone, somewhere, could convince the gm's in charge of the majority of stations in the sj realm who fall for BA hook, line & sinker that music testing is killing this format.
W
WTUX
Guest
I used to make a habit of going on the R&R site and studying the contributing radio stations' play lists. All too often, songs in regular rotation had been in that status for up to a year. New songs were added at the rate of only 1 or at most 2 per month.
The format used on regular radio has been killing the genre. Artists hae been receiving little promotion for new releases, thus reducing sales, thus killing the entire smooth jazz industry.
I had been listening to SJ on the radio less and less in the past three years. First, WJJZ in Philly had become so boring with the same songs and nothing new in rotation. Then we lost the station entirely. Now we have WJJZ back, but on a stick you can only hear in Philly, not on my ride to and from work.
If we lose SJ on regular radio, its because the ultra conservative music researchers were afraid to add new product and made the format stale. Its up to XM and SIRUS to keep the format alive, and us fans to keep buying the cd's.
The format used on regular radio has been killing the genre. Artists hae been receiving little promotion for new releases, thus reducing sales, thus killing the entire smooth jazz industry.
I had been listening to SJ on the radio less and less in the past three years. First, WJJZ in Philly had become so boring with the same songs and nothing new in rotation. Then we lost the station entirely. Now we have WJJZ back, but on a stick you can only hear in Philly, not on my ride to and from work.
If we lose SJ on regular radio, its because the ultra conservative music researchers were afraid to add new product and made the format stale. Its up to XM and SIRUS to keep the format alive, and us fans to keep buying the cd's.
I still have a copy of an article RnR did in Oct. 1995 when BA took over the format stashed in a file somewhere. The headline was that this was going to be the last piece they did where those who disagreed wtih BA's approach would be given a voice. Some of the programmers whose comments were printed in that article were me (representing the extremely commercial side who still disagreed with what BA was doing), Art Good, a guy named Bill Gray who was programming a rather progressive SJ station, and Jeff Lundt a label rep who currently works indie. Russ Davis might have been in there too. I'll have to find it, I just moved and haven't unpacked stuff.
The things we said are the same as the things that some very articulate people state in the RnR piece linked above. Back then we were accused of being "sour grapes" and "not cognizant of the realities of radio programming" and "self indulgent freeformers." (What BA and their followers call everyone who does not follow them blindly).Now we just seem to be extremely prophetic.
There are some incredibly astute comments on that RnR piece. I sent her an email and she asked for permission to use segments of it but I won't know if she does since I don't get to read RnR since getting budget cut at my station (not SJ) a few months ago.
And speaking of Prophetic here's an op-ed piece from right before the Smooth Jazz launch that certainly turned out to be true called "One Station Fits All" : http://www.smoothviews.com/archives/perspectives/perspectivesDec06.htm
The things we said are the same as the things that some very articulate people state in the RnR piece linked above. Back then we were accused of being "sour grapes" and "not cognizant of the realities of radio programming" and "self indulgent freeformers." (What BA and their followers call everyone who does not follow them blindly).Now we just seem to be extremely prophetic.
There are some incredibly astute comments on that RnR piece. I sent her an email and she asked for permission to use segments of it but I won't know if she does since I don't get to read RnR since getting budget cut at my station (not SJ) a few months ago.
And speaking of Prophetic here's an op-ed piece from right before the Smooth Jazz launch that certainly turned out to be true called "One Station Fits All" : http://www.smoothviews.com/archives/perspectives/perspectivesDec06.htm
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