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You know if affiliates give put enough pressure to air Leno later so NBC stations can air a 10' oclock newscast.This could happen.Dropping thier 11 o'clock newscast for a 10 o'oclock
10 pm local news
10:30 Leno
11.30 Conan
12:30 Late Night
10 pm local news
10:30 Leno
11.30 Conan
12:30 Late Night
Hot off the presses...
Seems NBC is pulling after WHDH indeed.
This is moving fast!
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/04/nbc_boston_will.html
Looks like it could to be NBC 60 soon...
Seems NBC is pulling after WHDH indeed.
This is moving fast!
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/04/nbc_boston_will.html
Looks like it could to be NBC 60 soon...
Garrett said:
Yes, WJAR-10 analog did have a good signal throughout southeastern MA, but it no longer exists. Channel 10 is now occupied by another NBC affiliate... Shop NBC WWDP-DT. WJAR-DT 51 has nowhere near the signal across SE Mass that the analog did, due to their directional antenna pattern, blocking most of the signal going northeast. It's possible that it may improve some when they move the antenna to the top of the tower where the analog 10 antenna currently sits, but it will still be directional, unlike the old analog 10. Unrelated to the topic, but WNAC-DT 12 and WPRI-DT 13 have great signals in this area, due to being non directional.
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4UH8SIMBKAGN
Guest
OTA signal really doesn't matter. Boston has a high penetration for cable and satellite. NBC could even offer a cable only station. I'm sure that if Ansin doesn't back off, they put it on 60 and strike a deal with the cable systems for a low channel assignment. NBC is going to show that it has the power, not the affiliate.jlehmann said:
Look what NBC did in San Francisco. KNTV's signal did not reach the most northern areas of the DMA, and had a poor OTA signal in San Francisco, yet they still moved it from KRON to KNTV. After years now, they've been able to move the transmitter to near the city. NBC will do the same in Boston. No sweat.
OTA still matters.
If it didn't, NBC wouldn't need to worry about it, just have the cable systems clear WJAR, and call it a day. And your post proves it. Even in San Francisco, they still had to move the signal closer, and years later, this is still a big issue there.
If we were talking about San Diego, where people have always had Cable and are used to Cable channel assignment, that might be one thing. But being from Boston, I know people are used to the old fashioned OTA channel. Even after years of being away, I still had a habit of flipping to 4 to watch Friends back in 2000, only to realize I had to flip to 7.
Making people punch in 60 will be hard enough. Having to explain to them that the Cable channel is "3" or "8," that'll completely confuse viewers, especially the older ones who have been watching Leno since 1992.
If it didn't, NBC wouldn't need to worry about it, just have the cable systems clear WJAR, and call it a day. And your post proves it. Even in San Francisco, they still had to move the signal closer, and years later, this is still a big issue there.
If we were talking about San Diego, where people have always had Cable and are used to Cable channel assignment, that might be one thing. But being from Boston, I know people are used to the old fashioned OTA channel. Even after years of being away, I still had a habit of flipping to 4 to watch Friends back in 2000, only to realize I had to flip to 7.
Making people punch in 60 will be hard enough. Having to explain to them that the Cable channel is "3" or "8," that'll completely confuse viewers, especially the older ones who have been watching Leno since 1992.
4UH8SIMBKAGN said:
4
4UH8SIMBKAGN
Guest
OTA does not matter other than "must carry" for cable/satellite. NBC already claims to have 96% penetration for its Telemundo station which isn't even in Massachusetts. Look at the cable networks who have been able to out-rate the networks from time to time, as well.
As for rebranding to another channel, it's already been done by NBC in San Francisco from Channel 4 to Channel 3 on cable (11 OTA). Granite and NBC did a huge billboard and bus campaign and it paid off on day 1.
WJAR isn't a must carry throughout the Boston area so your point is moot.
NBC is going to win one way or another as Ansin can't legally make the choice he is planning on. Ansin will loose his affiliation unless he backs down. Maybe he wants that? http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/04/nbc-leno-will-air-in-boston-one-way-or-another.html
Sorry to tell you but as of June 12, the OTA channel for the VHF's in Boston are history anyway. It's changing no matter if you or anyone else likes it or not.
As for rebranding to another channel, it's already been done by NBC in San Francisco from Channel 4 to Channel 3 on cable (11 OTA). Granite and NBC did a huge billboard and bus campaign and it paid off on day 1.
WJAR isn't a must carry throughout the Boston area so your point is moot.
NBC is going to win one way or another as Ansin can't legally make the choice he is planning on. Ansin will loose his affiliation unless he backs down. Maybe he wants that? http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/04/nbc-leno-will-air-in-boston-one-way-or-another.html
Sorry to tell you but as of June 12, the OTA channel for the VHF's in Boston are history anyway. It's changing no matter if you or anyone else likes it or not.
Garrett said:
kms575 said:
For Canadian viewers (mostly in the east) who receive WHDH, WCVB, and WBZ on cable (and independent WSBK on some), and those 4 plus FOX-owned WFXT on Bell TV, should WHDH lose the NBC affiliation, it would be dropped from Canadian lineups and replaced with another NBC affiliate, even with an O&O. (It happened in late '94 when WJBK in Detroit switched from CBS to FOX - due to FOX getting NFL games away from CBS - and WTOL in nearby Toledo, Ohio was pressed into Canadian service as it was a CBS affiliate.)
Reading FYBUSH just now he brings up a good point.Stations dont have to carry the full network if another station in the market is willing to air the programming they don't want to carry.
If this is true let Ansen run a 10'oclock newscast on channel 7 and move Leno to WLVI 56.
If this is true let Ansen run a 10'oclock newscast on channel 7 and move Leno to WLVI 56.
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4UH8SIMBKAGN
Guest
FYBUSH is 100% incorrect. No network has ever given the right to strip out 5 hours of PRIMETIME programming on a full network affiliate, 52 weeks per year. NBC and those who have previously worked in NBCaffiliate relations have said as much in recent press reports.kenwood101 said:
Leno will be on an NBC station and nothing less. Period.
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4UH8SIMBKAGN
Guest
Ansin appears to have backed off his 10 PM newscast idea http://www.c21media.net/news/detail.asp?area=1&article=48793
4UH8SIMBKAGN said:
This article is jumping to a false conclusion. Just because a small news blurb is missing from a website does not mean WHDH has "backed down." This one is still in play. I think it is more likely that there is a behind the scenes negotiation taking place, so they can't even talk about it for now. But that doesn't mean he's "backing down."
I don't what the track record of that website is, but they really have not reported anything new. Also, why are they using GMT?
As far as I am concerned, I'll wait until I hear it from AP or Reuters.
However, I do agree with Scott Fybush that taking NBC off WHDH is not a desirable outcome for anyone. I just don't know if that undesirability will matter this time. It seems that the Leno thing is a negotiating ploy to squeeze more money out of NBC during a time when they may not want to spend. I also don't see why NBC can't just go on Channel 68. They have good market coverage within the Boston metro. In San Diego, Fox is on Channel 69, but cable position is 5. I just don't see why this would be a problem in Boston.
4UH8SIMBKAGN said:
Hey, if you're going to go throwing my name around in all-caps, at least have the courtesy to quote me accurately.
Here's what kenwood was referring to from today's NorthEast Radio Watch (http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#ma), taken somewhat out of context from a longer discussion about some of the many possibilities for what happens next:
Fact of the matter is, we're in uncharted territory here. The network/affiliate relationships that existed even a few years ago have been dramatically upset by the changes in the overall media environment. NBC understands that, which is why it's been trying to get out of the local TV business as fast as it can - and why Ansin is probably correct if he's thinking that he has some leverage simply because the last thing NBC wants to do is to have to launch its own O&O from scratch.
I'm not privy to the details of NBC's contract with WHDH, and I'm not a lawyer, but I do think Ansin may be on plausible legal ground if he believes NBC can't enforce any clauses that would allow it to pull its affiliation before the end of the contract due to WHDH's preemptions of network programming. Remember Ansin's history with NBC in Miami - he succeeded in holding the network to its contract with WSVN for more than a year, thereby forcing NBC to keep running CBS programming on WTVJ while waiting Ansin out.
In the end, though, I agree that we're unlikely to see Leno on WLVI. Ansin knows his station is still more valuable with NBC than without it, and NBC knows it will pull much better numbers for its programming in Boston on WHDH than on "NBC Boston, cable channel 98" or wherever it might land. I think Ansin threw up a trial balloon to see if he could get other NBC affiliates behind him in a hurry, and when that didn't happen, the end game will find both sides making some concessions (more affiliate inventory in exchange for a promise not to pre-empt?) to keep NBC and WHDH in bed together, however uncomfortably.
I think the 10pm Leno show is NBC's dumbest idea ever. It will crash and burn faster than you can say Tammy Grimes.
For those who ask "Why is NBC doing show in the first place?" I heard the answer: it costs less to do a week of Leno than a single hour of a series.
What we have are networks that are no longer in the broadcasting business now they are in the advertising business.
NBC was once a great network, now it's pitiful. The other networks aren't much better.
For those who ask "Why is NBC doing show in the first place?" I heard the answer: it costs less to do a week of Leno than a single hour of a series.
What we have are networks that are no longer in the broadcasting business now they are in the advertising business.
NBC was once a great network, now it's pitiful. The other networks aren't much better.
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4UH8SIMBKAGN
Guest
You're not going to see Leno on ANY station unless it is THE NBC station. PERIOD. Any other suggestion is unnecessary fantasy and not worth writing about anywhere or at anytime. Some of us work in sunny Hollywood or Downtown Burbank and are a lot closer to what is going to happen than someone promoting their own website with unsupported dribble.Scott Fybush said:4UH8SIMBKAGN said:
Hey, if you're going to go throwing my name around in all-caps, at least have the courtesy to quote me accurately.
Here's what kenwood was referring to from today's NorthEast Radio Watch (http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#ma), taken somewhat out of context from a longer discussion about some of the many possibilities for what happens next:
Fact of the matter is, we're in uncharted territory here. The network/affiliate relationships that existed even a few years ago have been dramatically upset by the changes in the overall media environment. NBC understands that, which is why it's been trying to get out of the local TV business as fast as it can - and why Ansin is probably correct if he's thinking that he has some leverage simply because the last thing NBC wants to do is to have to launch its own O&O from scratch.
I'm not privy to the details of NBC's contract with WHDH, and I'm not a lawyer, but I do think Ansin may be on plausible legal ground if he believes NBC can't enforce any clauses that would allow it to pull its affiliation before the end of the contract due to WHDH's preemptions of network programming. Remember Ansin's history with NBC in Miami - he succeeded in holding the network to its contract with WSVN for more than a year, thereby forcing NBC to keep running CBS programming on WTVJ while waiting Ansin out.
In the end, though, I agree that we're unlikely to see Leno on WLVI. Ansin knows his station is still more valuable with NBC than without it, and NBC knows it will pull much better numbers for its programming in Boston on WHDH than on "NBC Boston, cable channel 98" or wherever it might land. I think Ansin threw up a trial balloon to see if he could get other NBC affiliates behind him in a hurry, and when that didn't happen, the end game will find both sides making some concessions (more affiliate inventory in exchange for a promise not to pre-empt?) to keep NBC and WHDH in bed together, however uncomfortably.
4UH8SIMBKAGN said:
If you bothered to read the "dribble" in its entirety, which you still clearly haven't bothered to do, I think you'd find that I come to the same conclusion you do - though the issue of what "THE NBC station" will be is still at least somewhat up in the air, if not immediately then certainly the next time WHDH's affiliation agreement comes up for renewal.
And, you know, there's really no call for the "more coastal than thou" attitude, especially from behind a pseudonym. I've been churning out my "dribble" (don't you really mean "drivel," at the very least?) for more than 15 years now, and I've had no problem attaching my own name to it from day one.
I happen to think my track record is pretty good, but hey, it's a free country, and you're welcome to snipe away if you think that makes for a cogent argument.
LOL, Scott you are a very patient and polite guy!!
The only thing in your "dribble" that I didn't tend to agree with is the idea of sticking NBC on WMUR. There are potential ownership issues to be concerned with (H-A owning ABC and NBC in the same market), as well as the issue of abandoning their current core audience for murkier waters south of the border. Far more likely to see NBCU's WNEU turned into an NBC O & O than WMUR taking their eye off the ball in the Granite State to try and cover Boston. Any of the same technical arguments about moving WMUR south of the border can be made for WNEU. Except that WNEU already has cable carriage throughout the market.
Anyhow, I think that WMUR taking on NBC for Boston is a very, very unlikely scenario. They have a great niche in Manchester and have to be one of the best small to mid sized stations in the USA at this point.
Besides, it's sounding more and more like Ansin has blinked. The lack of support from other affiliate owners surely hasn't helped his bargaining position. So, short-term we'll probably see Leno on 7. And, I am sure that NBC is relieved for not having to spend boatloads of money on a new affiliate to make a point. However, the next chapter will open when it's time for the affiliation agreement to be renewed........
Thanks again for the awesome NERW column. Makes Monday mornings almost worthwhile.
The only thing in your "dribble" that I didn't tend to agree with is the idea of sticking NBC on WMUR. There are potential ownership issues to be concerned with (H-A owning ABC and NBC in the same market), as well as the issue of abandoning their current core audience for murkier waters south of the border. Far more likely to see NBCU's WNEU turned into an NBC O & O than WMUR taking their eye off the ball in the Granite State to try and cover Boston. Any of the same technical arguments about moving WMUR south of the border can be made for WNEU. Except that WNEU already has cable carriage throughout the market.
Anyhow, I think that WMUR taking on NBC for Boston is a very, very unlikely scenario. They have a great niche in Manchester and have to be one of the best small to mid sized stations in the USA at this point.
Besides, it's sounding more and more like Ansin has blinked. The lack of support from other affiliate owners surely hasn't helped his bargaining position. So, short-term we'll probably see Leno on 7. And, I am sure that NBC is relieved for not having to spend boatloads of money on a new affiliate to make a point. However, the next chapter will open when it's time for the affiliation agreement to be renewed........
Thanks again for the awesome NERW column. Makes Monday mornings almost worthwhile.
BRNout said:LOL, Scott you are a very patient and polite guy!!
The only thing in your "dribble" that I didn't tend to agree with is the idea of sticking NBC on WMUR. There are potential ownership issues to be concerned with (H-A owning ABC and NBC in the same market), as well as the issue of abandoning their current core audience for murkier waters south of the border. Far more likely to see NBCU's WNEU turned into an NBC O & O than WMUR taking their eye off the ball in the Granite State to try and cover Boston. Any of the same technical arguments about moving WMUR south of the border can be made for WNEU. Except that WNEU already has cable carriage throughout the market.
Anyhow, I think that WMUR taking on NBC for Boston is a very, very unlikely scenario. They have a great niche in Manchester and have to be one of the best small to mid sized stations in the USA at this point.
They sure are, and as I indicated in the Monday Morning Dribble...er, NERW...I don't think NBC on WMUR is a terribly likely scenario. But to play the "what if" game for a moment, here's how I think it could play out, and why:
First off, there's no legal issue I can see. WMUR isn't one of the top four stations in the market, and is therefore legal for H/A to own in a duopoly with WCVB. Changing WMUR's affiliation wouldn't change that, and even if WMUR/NBC became a top-four station subsequently, there's no provision in the rules that would force H/A to sell. (However, it would be unable to sell WMUR and WCVB to the same owner down the road if that were to be the case.)
Second, I don't think changing WMUR's affiliation automatically means it takes its eye off the ball north of the border. WMUR's dominance in New Hampshire comes from its local news product, not from its ABC affiliation. In my "what if" scenario, WMUR would still be the New Hampshire station, just with NBC instead of ABC - and with full-market carriage, which it could assert tomorrow, on channel 9 no less, if it so desired.
Do people in Sharon care about news from Sunapee? No, of course not - and maybe H/A works some sort of deal with Comcast to substitute WCVB local news and local spots for the WMUR local newscasts on the feed going south of the border. (That same "WMUR-Boston" feed could blanket the market over-the-air on DTV 5.2, something WNEU can't do.)
If H/A could pull it off - and, again, I agree that it's the longest of long shots - I still think it could be a big win for them. From NH viewers' perspectives, the only dramatic change would be the replacement of ABC network programming with NBC network programming, while their hyper-local newscasts continue. If H/A could work out the ad-substitution issue with cable, it could pick up the ability to sell both ABC and NBC programming in the Boston market, and to pick up more eyeballs for WCVB's newscasts. Even if WMUR's NH news remains on the "Boston" feed, it's still a win, since WMUR NH news on "NBC" is a far less formidable competitor to WCVB's late news numbers than "7 News at 11" on NBC is now. (And "7 News at 11," in turn, would be a less formidable competitor on an independent or CW-affiliated channel 7 than it is now.)
It could even be a win for NBC, since it would be handing the heavy lifting of creating a "new" Boston NBC affiliate over to Hearst/Argyle and escaping the burden of building a new station (out of WNEU or whatever) from scratch. WMUR at least comes to the table with a full programming schedule and partial-market name recognition, after all.
But again...it's the longest of long shots.
You should see what it does to my Sunday nights...
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