-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Chance to restore WOWO's 50KW night service
- Thread starter spt87
- Start date
I was one of the instigators of the "WOWO Listeners Guild," along with my buddy Peter George up in Massachusetts.
The effort was essentially for naught - the FCC's stance was that if WOWO wanted to downgrade of its own accord, the Commission wasn't going to stop it from doing so.
The effort was essentially for naught - the FCC's stance was that if WOWO wanted to downgrade of its own accord, the Commission wasn't going to stop it from doing so.
Even if WOWO could go back to full power at night, the question that has to be asked is how would this benefit FedMed? The answer is simple:
It wouldn't.
A radio station is designed to serve a city, town, community, county, what have you. It's not designed to serve an entire region of the country. Granted, it is cool when you can pick up distant radio signals (and Lord knows I would love to be able to hear WOWO over the air in Mississippi) but that really only appeals to us radio nerds. The average radio listener doesn't care and I would say they even find it annoying.
Advertisers also aren't going to pay extra to advertise on a station that just happens to be able to be heard all over the country. If a business like Coney Island or Powers buys ad time on a radio station, they only care about the impact that will be felt locally. If someone in Alabama picks up WOWO and hears an ad for Coney Island, that's cool and all but the chances of them ever darkening the doorstep are likely slim to none.
There's no return on investment.
While WOWO being able to go to 50KW at night would be great, it isn't going to benefit FedMed one bit so it likely won't happen, even if it were possible (with the others stations on 1190 upgrading, it's not likely to be possible).
It wouldn't.
A radio station is designed to serve a city, town, community, county, what have you. It's not designed to serve an entire region of the country. Granted, it is cool when you can pick up distant radio signals (and Lord knows I would love to be able to hear WOWO over the air in Mississippi) but that really only appeals to us radio nerds. The average radio listener doesn't care and I would say they even find it annoying.
Advertisers also aren't going to pay extra to advertise on a station that just happens to be able to be heard all over the country. If a business like Coney Island or Powers buys ad time on a radio station, they only care about the impact that will be felt locally. If someone in Alabama picks up WOWO and hears an ad for Coney Island, that's cool and all but the chances of them ever darkening the doorstep are likely slim to none.
There's no return on investment.
While WOWO being able to go to 50KW at night would be great, it isn't going to benefit FedMed one bit so it likely won't happen, even if it were possible (with the others stations on 1190 upgrading, it's not likely to be possible).
So, were you to find yourself owning both WLIB and WOWO--even with WLIB finances currently in the toilet--do you shut down WLIB in the nation’s #1 market, to ‘strengthen’ a signal in the less than half-million #165 market? or do you shut down the #165 market to strengthen the signal in the 15 million #1 market?
Tough as it is for us to watch the money dry up and AM to actually begin dying (and it is going to get much worse), it is far more likely WOWO will succumb long before WLIB.
One thing I really miss in the current state of radio, is the chance to hear stations half-way across the country and get an education about that city from the on-air talent. Growing up in small town Midwest, hearing stations in Chicago, Detroit/Windsor, Ft. Wayne, Cleveland, Columbus OH, Pittsburgh, Philly, New York, Boston, DC (occasionally), Cincinatti, Louisville, Little Rock, Nashville, New Orleans, St. Louis, Des Moines--it is just hard to believe that experience is gone in the switch to FM, with no thought at all of duplicating it with different RF transmission methods. Even if Internet streams become receivable in cars, the money is not there for the kind of programming services powerful 50kw’s could provide in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. Meanwhile, programming on skywaves is no longer local, and the syndicators do not educate anyone on their homes of origination, what with their funky belief that every listener thinks they originate from each and every station that carries them.
I now live 100 miles due south of Ft. Wayne, and cannot get WOWO at night anymore at all, and daytime is very weak and noisy. 6db must make a real difference, because that was the main station my parents listened to when I was growing up--especially NBC Monitor on the weekends.
Tough as it is for us to watch the money dry up and AM to actually begin dying (and it is going to get much worse), it is far more likely WOWO will succumb long before WLIB.
One thing I really miss in the current state of radio, is the chance to hear stations half-way across the country and get an education about that city from the on-air talent. Growing up in small town Midwest, hearing stations in Chicago, Detroit/Windsor, Ft. Wayne, Cleveland, Columbus OH, Pittsburgh, Philly, New York, Boston, DC (occasionally), Cincinatti, Louisville, Little Rock, Nashville, New Orleans, St. Louis, Des Moines--it is just hard to believe that experience is gone in the switch to FM, with no thought at all of duplicating it with different RF transmission methods. Even if Internet streams become receivable in cars, the money is not there for the kind of programming services powerful 50kw’s could provide in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. Meanwhile, programming on skywaves is no longer local, and the syndicators do not educate anyone on their homes of origination, what with their funky belief that every listener thinks they originate from each and every station that carries them.
I now live 100 miles due south of Ft. Wayne, and cannot get WOWO at night anymore at all, and daytime is very weak and noisy. 6db must make a real difference, because that was the main station my parents listened to when I was growing up--especially NBC Monitor on the weekends.
We know the outcome now, but could you highlight the responses from the FCC to your letters? Did they take into consideration your view on the matter?
[/quote]
I still have a copy of the letter I sent the FCC and a response I received. Basically it was "in the public interest" to grant the CP. As I recall, 135 people sent letters against the granting the change which, considering this deal was essentially only publicized on USENET (which was pre internet boom so a very niche audience back then) I thought that was a pretty good response rate.
I visited the WOWO studios in, I think 1995. At the time they were running the adult contemporary format and were still in the Central Building. Inner City owned it but had LMA'ed to Federated pending the signal change and final sale to Federated. My arrival was late in the day - Ron Gregory was on the air and as I approached Fort Wayne was listening to the station with an SRF-42 AM stereo walkman plugged into the car audio system. When I got there for an impromptu tour, the receptionist said most of the staff (sales, promotions, management, I think the newsroom - except a few on air staff) had moved to a new building. The only person available to give my wife and I a tour was Bob Chase. I explained to him we were big fans from Western NY and listened everynight using an AM Stereo receiver. I mentioned my displeasure at the pending night time power reduction and Bob said that it would take many years if it happened at all (unfortunately his accuracy in predicting the FCC actions wasn't quite as good as his sports insights). We had a very brief look around. I remember seeing Ron Gregory and the gentleman Mr. Chase said was the program director outside the studio look at some equipment racks while a song was playing. Bob found a couple souveniers that were left behind in the abandoned cubicles for us (a WOWO ice scraper, calendar with a cartoon picture of the on air staff and a bumper sticker). As we left the receptionist was crying - she had worked there for 30 years and was being let go once the location move was done since Federated already had a receptionist in the new site. I remember seeing mail on her desk with Inner City letterhead on it and thinking the whole situation was disgusting and being rather sad but glad I was able to see and get a few pictures of their long time home.
Another part of this deal was that Price Communications was the owner who sold it to Inner City. Price is the legendary company that left a wake of ruined stations behind including WKBW-AM Buffalo. I believe the only reason Inner City and Price were able to do a deal is because of some FCC and IRS incentives for selling stations to minority owners. Rules that were intended to encourage minority ownership and operation of stations - not pilaging and destruction.
I can only hope that expense of buying WOWO and reconfiguring the signal contributed to the current bankruptcy and take pleasure that Inner City got what they had coming in the end.
[/quote]
I still have a copy of the letter I sent the FCC and a response I received. Basically it was "in the public interest" to grant the CP. As I recall, 135 people sent letters against the granting the change which, considering this deal was essentially only publicized on USENET (which was pre internet boom so a very niche audience back then) I thought that was a pretty good response rate.
I visited the WOWO studios in, I think 1995. At the time they were running the adult contemporary format and were still in the Central Building. Inner City owned it but had LMA'ed to Federated pending the signal change and final sale to Federated. My arrival was late in the day - Ron Gregory was on the air and as I approached Fort Wayne was listening to the station with an SRF-42 AM stereo walkman plugged into the car audio system. When I got there for an impromptu tour, the receptionist said most of the staff (sales, promotions, management, I think the newsroom - except a few on air staff) had moved to a new building. The only person available to give my wife and I a tour was Bob Chase. I explained to him we were big fans from Western NY and listened everynight using an AM Stereo receiver. I mentioned my displeasure at the pending night time power reduction and Bob said that it would take many years if it happened at all (unfortunately his accuracy in predicting the FCC actions wasn't quite as good as his sports insights). We had a very brief look around. I remember seeing Ron Gregory and the gentleman Mr. Chase said was the program director outside the studio look at some equipment racks while a song was playing. Bob found a couple souveniers that were left behind in the abandoned cubicles for us (a WOWO ice scraper, calendar with a cartoon picture of the on air staff and a bumper sticker). As we left the receptionist was crying - she had worked there for 30 years and was being let go once the location move was done since Federated already had a receptionist in the new site. I remember seeing mail on her desk with Inner City letterhead on it and thinking the whole situation was disgusting and being rather sad but glad I was able to see and get a few pictures of their long time home.
Another part of this deal was that Price Communications was the owner who sold it to Inner City. Price is the legendary company that left a wake of ruined stations behind including WKBW-AM Buffalo. I believe the only reason Inner City and Price were able to do a deal is because of some FCC and IRS incentives for selling stations to minority owners. Rules that were intended to encourage minority ownership and operation of stations - not pilaging and destruction.
I can only hope that expense of buying WOWO and reconfiguring the signal contributed to the current bankruptcy and take pleasure that Inner City got what they had coming in the end.
J
jimbo700
Guest
Scott Fybush said:
I began my original message by saying the WOWO travesty would have never been allowed to happen 40 years ago or earlier, but in fact this stuff did go on.
From the earliest days of radio, frequencies were shared, owners bought out other owners to go full-time or get a power increase (even WLS was a part-time station, sharing with WENR until Prairie Farmer Magazine, owner of WLS bought them out in 1954), and stations were on the move, applying for and in many cases getting power increases that resulted in additional interference to other class B's.) NARBA was supposed to end the mayhem in 1941 when half (or more) of the AM stations changed frequencies. But it opened fewer possibilities than anticipated and further cluttered the AM band. The FCC could care less about AM radio even these days. When they announced the AM extended band in the late 80's, applicants were given priority if they caused interference, especially 1st adjacent interference to a Class A or to a lesser extent Class B. The applicants were also given a preference in their application if they would broadcast in C-Quam AM stereo. Most of all, they were told that they had 5 years to get settled, then they had to shut down their old transmitters and the old/original license turned in. Today I hear no EB station broadcasting in AM Stereo (which is much superior to AM-HD) and I have yet to hear of a single AM surrender their license to the old facilities to the FCC.
And FM power increases and city of license moves are happening every day.
WOWO has a sentimental place in my heart due to the memories I have but today, I could care less about their programming.
I can hear Sean Hannity and Coast-To-Coast AM anywhere.
I am glad I had the opportunity to listen to WOWO in the 70's and 80's when they were "live" with personalities and still played music... and had a good news department. I still listen to them some today....
P.S. I don't know if what they have now is a "news department" but recently I heard a female newscaster say "Cops chased the guy". I think this would have sounded more professional...."police chased the suspect". Of course the newscaster was probably in her early 20's and never learned the ropes before going on the air.
It is sad that radio stations are to serve the public interest yet owners have gutted their news departments. One day we will wake up and radio will be gone...tick...tick...tick.
P.S. I don't know if what they have now is a "news department" but recently I heard a female newscaster say "Cops chased the guy". I think this would have sounded more professional...."police chased the suspect". Of course the newscaster was probably in her early 20's and never learned the ropes before going on the air.
It is sad that radio stations are to serve the public interest yet owners have gutted their news departments. One day we will wake up and radio will be gone...tick...tick...tick.
From 1989 until 1995, when WOWO had an oldies format, I listened fairly regularly and thought they were one of the best clear channel stations at the time. Even when they dropped oldies during the evening hours in 1995, listening to Michael Reagan was kinda cool although I would've preferred they kept the music during that time. As we all know by then, the handwriting was on the wall and Inner City was about to sabotage the station.kb9wsl said:
Again, I must ask: Why the hell Inner City didn't try to unload WLIB and buy something something like one of the frequencies I mentioned earlier puzzles me. They could've had one of those stations, sold 1190, had most of their target audience within the given station's primary service area and done so for a lot less money than they would've had they not made the expensive upgrades to WLIB and sabotaged WOWO! Thy might've not needed to file for bankruptcy either!
No one (well almost no one) believes Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh originate in Fort Wayne or Des Moines; they are known as national personalities. As for WOWO's news department, I've heard it leaves a lot to be desired these days.
Now there was a guy when I worked at a small Indiana TV station who believed Wheel of Fortune originated there.....
Now there was a guy when I worked at a small Indiana TV station who believed Wheel of Fortune originated there.....
klutch00 said:
I disagree with this assessment. With the exception of the 1050 facility, which was way outside ICBC's price range and which was not for sale in 1995 anyway, none of the other facilities you mentioned come close to the day/night coverage of the core of the NYC market. 620 doesn't get the Bronx or Harlem in any kind of usable way and 930/1330/1380/1430/1480 are all mediocre at best in Brooklyn and Queens after dark.
The WLIB upgrades weren't hugely expensive - two new towers added to their existing three, a new transmitter and a new phasor. If they didn't make that expense back within the first few years of 24/7 operation, I'd be very surprised.
Pete I think said that "cops chased the guy": is less professional. Radio execs have dumbed down the language to meet the listeners. This is not just a trend but reality. "Peoples like to hear peoples that talk like them." When I started in news it was different. NPR hasn't changed delivery though in my lifetime.
I can still watch the scrolls on the screen bottom of the networks and see typos. This isn't a station in Crumbucket Idaho, this is New Yawk.
WOWO was unique. Was. Now it's like everything else. The problem is that when a new owner buys he just does what he has always done, in another city. This stinks. It hasn't changed.
If we were to provide a new and unique service what is that? None of the brain trust here has answered that question in over 6 years of asking. I am looking for the next new innovative service in radio. Not a format mind you but something altogether different.
I envisioned "Prairie Home Companion meets Hoosierland" but this is something that would take a lot of talent and time to build with not a promising outcome yet.
I can still watch the scrolls on the screen bottom of the networks and see typos. This isn't a station in Crumbucket Idaho, this is New Yawk.
WOWO was unique. Was. Now it's like everything else. The problem is that when a new owner buys he just does what he has always done, in another city. This stinks. It hasn't changed.
If we were to provide a new and unique service what is that? None of the brain trust here has answered that question in over 6 years of asking. I am looking for the next new innovative service in radio. Not a format mind you but something altogether different.
I envisioned "Prairie Home Companion meets Hoosierland" but this is something that would take a lot of talent and time to build with not a promising outcome yet.
An equally big factor is that the new owner often has a huge nut to crack that the previous owner did not. Applies in radio, banks and department stores equally. When you see a merger coming, prepare for reduced service to the public.ChiefEngineer said:
For the record, I like listening to people who talk on the radio like they do in my living room. A guy who says he was walkin' across the street comes across as more real than a guy who was walking across the street.
Problem is, how many other people care if the guy walked across the street, or had for breakfast in 2011? Facebook has those statuses all over.
I've seen one fairly innovative concept for radio in the last several years. The rest is some version of "let's do radio in the 1970s".
I've seen one fairly innovative concept for radio in the last several years. The rest is some version of "let's do radio in the 1970s".
And what is that innovative concept? I disagree that radio is "let's do radio in the 1970's. I don't really think it's as good as the 1970's.
I'm saying that so many on these boards seem to think innovation is going back to the past, having that DJ telling lame jokes over intros and talking about what they had for breakfast (which no one cares about anymore).
It's been years since I read the proposal but in very short form the suggestion was making the entire radio station a social network (while using all the social networks). I'm sorry I don't have the piece available to link and I'm not doing it justice in one line.
It's been years since I read the proposal but in very short form the suggestion was making the entire radio station a social network (while using all the social networks). I'm sorry I don't have the piece available to link and I'm not doing it justice in one line.
I am always ready to look at new ways to reach listeners. Stan Solomon used to ask people to tell a thousand of their closest friends to listen.
- Status