Changes at WMXJ?

[davideduardo]

I know music testing has been the rule for major stations for many years now, but it seems like after the "auditorium" tests became popular, radio became more antiseptic! Could there be any connection?

There is certainly an element of truth here. But most of the "lack of the outlandish" in radio comes from vastly more sophisticated ratings methods (not just the PPM but all the incremental improvements in the diary), legal restrictions, liability issues, etc.

In the 50's and 60's, Top 40 was to a great extent based on sales of singles and juke box play. To buy a record or play it with your nickel or dime meant you had passion for a song... so programming was based on passion. When the single died, and the jukebox faded, radio had to find a way of determining what songs were the best. At the same time, radio started developing formats that played relatively contemporary music mixed with gold or all gold where knowing which older songs were still valid was important.

I saw callout in the 70's... and various forms of music tests, so this is not at all new.

What has changed is the variety of formats that came up with the growth of FM and then the addition of lots more stations to the FM band. That meant having better music than competitors and playing shorter lists of new music and more focused gold lists.

Whatever happened to a PD listening with their ears. An experienced PD should have the sound of the station in his/her head!

I'll give an example. When I did my first test, in the late 70's, I was programming an AC in a top 15 market. The station was #1 in 18-49 women and second overall. I decided to score about 100 songs from the test myself, to see how accurate I was. I found that I was more than 30% off on a quarter of the songs. I thought some hits were stiffs, and some songs I thought were great were full of stiffiness. It proved to me that a good PD... and I had ratings to prove I was at least better than the rest... needs tools that show what listeners like and dislike because a PD can't have street feel 100% of the time when he or she sits most of the day in a radio station.

 

[nfladxer]

David, Thank you for what I found to be an excellent response. As the music testing, and other methodology has become more sophisticated, let's hope there's still room for a good PD to have some "gut" input! :

 

[cspotrun]

callout research on Classic Hits has given radio the SAME list of 300-400 songs and 'Brown Eyed Girl' played in heavy rotation. you have to look at the market, the demo, and several other factors, and above all keeping it fresh with a wealth of 60's-70's songs to choose from i don't see why you have to play the SAME "Predictable" songs into the ground. and YES gut feel. i'm IN the demo and i think that gives me an edge.

 

[davideduardo]

callout research on Classic Hits has given radio the SAME list of 300-400 songs and 'Brown Eyed Girl' played in heavy rotation. you have to look at the market, the demo, and several other factors, and above all keeping it fresh with a wealth of 60's-70's songs to choose from i don't see why you have to play the SAME "Predictable" songs into the ground. and YES gut feel. i'm IN the demo and i think that gives me an edge.

First, most classic hits stations have around 800 titles in regular rotation, not counting specialty shows.

Second, as a rule, classic hits stations do not use callout. They use "real" AMTs or online equivalents... perhaps 1000 songs or more. You can't test much more than 30 songs on a callout session.

Miami is a PPM market. A song that is disliked by a significant percentage of listeners is very very damaging. So what stations have to play are the songs everyone either likes or, at least, feel neutral about. That tends to come down to that same 800 title number.

A stiff is a stiff. Gut feel of one person, the PD, has nothing to do with it. While sometimes a morning show can get away with a novelty tune or "Yummy Yummy" regular play of stiffs just does not work.

 

[Groove1670]

can get away with a novelty tune or "Yummy Yummy" regular play of stiffs just does not work.

Ah, come on now.
No

Money, Money Money Money

or

Gimme Gimme Gimme

or

Jeremiah Peabody's Polyunsaturated Quick-Dissolving
Fast-Acting Pleasant-Tasting Green and Purple Pills

I know they test well in Bismarck & Fargo ;D

 

[cspotrun]

callout research on Classic Hits has given radio the SAME list of 300-400 songs and 'Brown Eyed Girl' played in heavy rotation. you have to look at the market, the demo, and several other factors, and above all keeping it fresh with a wealth of 60's-70's songs to choose from i don't see why you have to play the SAME "Predictable" songs into the ground. and YES gut feel. i'm IN the demo and i think that gives me an edge.

First, most classic hits stations have around 800 titles in regular rotation, not counting specialty shows.

Second, as a rule, classic hits stations do not use callout. They use "real" AMTs or online equivalents... perhaps 1000 songs or more. You can't test much more than 30 songs on a callout session.

Miami is a PPM market. A song that is disliked by a significant percentage of listeners is very very damaging. So what stations have to play are the songs everyone either likes or, at least, feel neutral about. That tends to come down to that same 800 title number.

A stiff is a stiff. Gut feel of one person, the PD, has nothing to do with it. While sometimes a morning show can get away with a novelty tune or "Yummy Yummy" regular play of stiffs just does not work.

i said callout reseach, i guess i meant to say ANY research, and we're going to disagree on that, i just know what works for me and my station, i've already driven 2 stations out of the format that used your narrow approach, so why should i change.

 

[nfladxer]

It seems to me, researching music for a gold based station, should be getting accurate "research" tempered with a good programmers "ear" and gut instincts! It's got to be a combination. Radio is a "sound" medium, programming from statistics alone, is a recipe for disaster. If you're operating a "Classic Hits" or "Oldies" radio station, you know what the hits were, that's already been documented. Therefore, I would think any music research conducted for an Oldies station would be to see what today's audience still finds relevent and popular. That's great! So get your base list decided, and here's the great thing about Oldies, afer you've decided the foundation of your music playlist, you've got literally hundreds, if not thousands of titles to "flavor" the sound of your station. I realize music rotation, and song placement, are both quite critical with Oldies, but I think a blend of research and a good programmer's judgement and knowledge makes sense!

 

[davideduardo]

i said callout reseach, i guess i meant to say ANY research, and we're going to disagree on that, i just know what works for me and my station, i've already driven 2 stations out of the format that used your narrow approach, so why should i change.

Are you in a PPM market where it takes enormous programming skill to take all the resources, like AMT's, MScore, sharing analysis, etc., and to create a station that does not blow off listeners and which has flow, even excitement and stationality?

I've done classic hits in markets like LA (beating KRTH in 18-49 and 25-54) and other Top 10 markets. What size market are you in, and is it rated? Is it continuously rated, or a two book market? How big is the viable competitive array.

My name is on the link on this post. We don't know who you are. So when you blindly say someone (who is actually using a 1000 song list) "narrow" we need to know the context of your experience, if any.

 

[cspotrun]

well, nobody knows who anyone is on these boards, and its not important to know who i am, and you can believe me or not, i don't care. i've been a radio broadcaster for 40 years.
and i've never heard of david eduardo, and after 40 years i know ALOT of people, but it doesn't matter really. most of the times i've run into you on these boards it ends up in "Take it Outside", it won't happen this time because i've said it all before, nuff said.

 

[davideduardo]

well, nobody knows who anyone is on these boards, and its not important to know who i am, and you can believe me or not, i don't care. i've been a radio broadcaster for 40 years.
and i've never heard of david eduardo, and after 40 years i know ALOT of people, but it doesn't matter really. most of the times i've run into you on these boards it ends up in "Take it Outside", it won't happen this time because i've said it all before, nuff said.

As I said, click on the link and you can see... right down to WQBA, WCMQ, WHTT, WRTO, WAMR and Radio Martí.

And that still does not answer the question about programming in a PPM market, a rated market or whatever. That does not require revealing identity, but it would identify you vis a vis the competitive environment in Miami as having relevant knowledge.... or not.

 

[johntherogger]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I do not believe in nor do I care for Music testing or PPMs. Useless!

You cannot tell the "likes" or "dislikes" by asking 20 people or relying on some stupid system to tell you what people like or don't like

Hell if that's the case the PPMs should be very low on Commercials!!!!!!!!

Want to tell the correct? All music should be played....everything your format is should be played! Then what you play, whatever gets more requests or calls about "enjoying that song" are the heavier rotated songs....but always play it all, everything that fits into your demo

otherwise listeners (like myself) get fed up and switch to iPods!

 

[davideduardo]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I do not believe in nor do I care for Music testing or PPMs. Useless!

Perish the thought that a station might consult with a sample of its listeners or potential listeners to see what they want to hear.

 

[johntherogger]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I do not believe in nor do I care for Music testing or PPMs. Useless!

Perish the thought that a station might consult with a sample of its listeners or potential listeners to see what they want to hear.

I really hope that someday I am able to own my own station and do just that....I would like to just see if God forbid it works ;D