Channel 945 Changing...

[mustardz]

Have you guys noticed Channel 945 has become more mainstream? It has really improved, once an Anti-945 I am actually hooked on the Channel now!

 

[jaddy5400]

Alot more Mainstream for sure. Looks like they are capitalizing on the open format why they can. For how long, nobody knows!

 

[kentuckymedia]

My prediction:

Channel leans mainstream til the for sale sign has a "sold" slapped across the front. If its a big player, it could stay Top 40 Mainstream, if its an independent dealer, look for the wheel o' formats to be on tour in Dayton. Top 40 is expensive to run and all it does is collects Cume which is hard to sell.

 

[DaytonWxGuy]

I really do enjoy the expanded format now... I remember seeing another post on the Z-93 thread that said it would be a good idea for Channel to ask people to "give us a shot to be your new station"... And I heard that the other day. If/when DKF sells, I just can not see it changing due to the fact there would be no true mainstream station in Dayton.

...Then again, back in the day, I never thought WING-FM would change either.

 

[kentuckymedia]

It could very easily remain Top 40 if a big named player comes to town. However, economically it wouldnt make sense for someone like K-Love or another small town group to come in and try to keep it Top 40, it just wont fare well for their balance sheets.

Radio is all about money anymore, and yes its sad, but its the big corporate companies that sucked the very life out of the business we all love.

 

[uppendowndadial]

Radio is all about money anymore, and yes its sad, but its the big corporate companies that sucked the very life out of the business we all love.

yep. And for the best take on the subject that I've ever read, take a look at John Gorman's blog
http://gormanmediablog.blogspot.com/

 

[titoisradio]

My prediction:

Channel leans mainstream til the for sale sign has a "sold" slapped across the front. If its a big player, it could stay Top 40 Mainstream, if its an independent dealer, look for the wheel o' formats to be on tour in Dayton. Top 40 is expensive to run and all it does is collects Cume which is hard to sell.

How is Top 40 any more expensive to run than any other music format? High TSL is very possible with a properly programmed CHR.

 

[KFodor]

My prediction:

Channel leans mainstream til the for sale sign has a "sold" slapped across the front. If its a big player, it could stay Top 40 Mainstream, if its an independent dealer, look for the wheel o' formats to be on tour in Dayton. Top 40 is expensive to run and all it does is collects Cume which is hard to sell.

How is Top 40 any more expensive to run than any other music format? High TSL is very possible with a properly programmed CHR.

Hope this information will be helpful to you:

First of all, what do you consider "High TSL"? You're not going to get a TSL in the 7:15-8:30 range that more "adult" formats get. Most CHR's are more like 5:30 (or less). Why? Because of the constant repetition of the CHR format. Most CHR's will rotate their "hot currents" 90-100 times a week. And when you're repeating some songs as quickly as every 45 to 70 minutes, you have little chance of keeping listeners for a long time. So, CHR's have always been cume magnets and not strictly TSL driven. High shares are possible at lower TSL with high cumes. So, CHR's slam the hits down people's throats to keep a constant stream of listeners coming back with more "occasions of listening".

The more adult formats (A/C, Country, etc) will spin "hot currents" more like every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. Less repetition means higher TSL. These stations will not have the cume of a CHR...but can often beat them with greater TSL. Adults are more sensitive to hearing the same songs over and over, hence the slower rotations. Not necessarily so with teens and young adults.

CHR is a more expensive format because of the promotional expenses that are also most often involved, particularly if you're in a market with more than one CHR or CHR-derivitive station. Those "fly aways" and "big money" contests cost big bucks to do them right. You don't have to spend that money if you're the only game in town.

Look at the old WNCI/WXGT battle in Columbus in the 80's. Every weekend, 92X would come up with a contest (say, tickets to a hot concert, with a chance to win a fly away to see the artist in Las Vegas). WNCI might counter by giving away the exact same prize, plus $1000 in spending money. It's the kind of thing they often did back then. And that's what kept 'NCI on top. But that's what you have to do in a highly competitive market, if you're going to do it right. And, you have to have the budget to be "bigger than life".

Unfortunately, where Dayton is concerned, few of the stations have done anything like this for years. Or else what they do is "smoke and mirrors". Which is why you (until just recently) had 2 CHR's with only a combined 4.5 share or so. The former Z-93 could have stayed more competitive and had better numbers had they been given more promotional budget for giveaways and been the "promo monster" of the market, like a good CHR is supposed to be. Yes, there were other considerations that would have also helped. But, the last few years, Z had been doing some pretty crappy promotions.

Doing this would also have helped keep the station from losing some of its' younger adult women to Mix 107-7, which had the "promo monster" image simply because of better contesting. When Z had a 12 share of the market, they were doing all of those things and more.

 

[titoisradio]

My prediction:

Channel leans mainstream til the for sale sign has a "sold" slapped across the front. If its a big player, it could stay Top 40 Mainstream, if its an independent dealer, look for the wheel o' formats to be on tour in Dayton. Top 40 is expensive to run and all it does is collects Cume which is hard to sell.

How is Top 40 any more expensive to run than any other music format? High TSL is very possible with a properly programmed CHR.

Hope this information will be helpful to you:

First of all, what do you consider "High TSL"? You're not going to get a TSL in the 7:15-8:30 range that more "adult" formats get. Most CHR's are more like 5:30 (or less). Why? Because of the constant repetition of the CHR format. Most CHR's will rotate their "hot currents" 90-100 times a week. And when you're repeating some songs as quickly as every 45 to 70 minutes, you have little chance of keeping listeners for a long time. So, CHR's have always been cume magnets and not strictly TSL driven. High shares are possible at lower TSL with high cumes. So, CHR's slam the hits down people's throats to keep a constant stream of listeners coming back with more "occasions of listening".

I will give you that repetition can hurt TSL, though I would also argue that if your playing the correct powers the 60-90 minute repetition won't hurt you. Spot load will kill you more than anything else with TSL. Also if you have good air talent, CHR can beat adult formats in TSL. If you want to be a music jukebox with commercials, then TSL is not an option.

The more adult formats (A/C, Country, etc) will spin "hot currents" more like every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. Less repetition means higher TSL. These stations will not have the cume of a CHR...but can often beat them with greater TSL. Adults are more sensitive to hearing the same songs over and over, hence the slower rotations. Not necessarily so with teens and young adults.



CHR is a more expensive format because of the promotional expenses that are also most often involved, particularly if you're in a market with more than one CHR or CHR-derivitive station. Those "fly aways" and "big money" contests cost big bucks to do them right. You don't have to spend that money if you're the only game in town.

Look at the old WNCI/WXGT battle in Columbus in the 80's. Every weekend, 92X would come up with a contest (say, tickets to a hot concert, with a chance to win a fly away to see the artist in Las Vegas). WNCI might counter by giving away the exact same prize, plus $1000 in spending money. It's the kind of thing they often did back then. And that's what kept 'NCI on top. But that's what you have to do in a highly competitive market, if you're going to do it right. And, you have to have the budget to be "bigger than life".

I completely disagree with this argument on multiple fronts. First promotions have little impact on ratings no matter what you are giving away. Secondly, while things are slightly different now after the recent payola investigations, the only thing a flyaway cost a station was playing Guster 7 spins a week in overnights. Above board you can use trade to create bigger than life promotions such as giving away a car. It is still very unnecessary to spend tons of money to win a CHR battle or win in the ratings programming a CHR. Today Viral marketing is much easier and less expensive with YouTube, Myspace, station websites, etc. Not to mention all the NTR that can be generated if used properly that could always be fed back into contest budgets.

Unfortunately, where Dayton is concerned, few of the stations have done anything like this for years. Or else what they do is "smoke and mirrors". Which is why you (until just recently) had 2 CHR's with only a combined 4.5 share or so. The former Z-93 could have stayed more competitive and had better numbers had they been given more promotional budget for giveaways and been the "promo monster" of the market, like a good CHR is supposed to be. Yes, there were other considerations that would have also helped. But, the last few years, Z had been doing some pretty crappy promotions.

Doing this would also have helped keep the station from losing some of its' younger adult women to Mix 107-7, which had the "promo monster" image simply because of better contesting. When Z had a 12 share of the market, they were doing all of those things and more.

You put way to much credit to contesting when it comes to increasing market share. Its more about the total on air package from music, imaging, and air talent. Trying to bribe listeners simply doesn't work. Radio is about being informative, entertaining, interactive and intriguing not giving away movie tickets and plane rides.

 

[KFodor]

My prediction:

Channel leans mainstream til the for sale sign has a "sold" slapped across the front. If its a big player, it could stay Top 40 Mainstream, if its an independent dealer, look for the wheel o' formats to be on tour in Dayton. Top 40 is expensive to run and all it does is collects Cume which is hard to sell.

How is Top 40 any more expensive to run than any other music format? High TSL is very possible with a properly programmed CHR.

Hope this information will be helpful to you:

First of all, what do you consider "High TSL"? You're not going to get a TSL in the 7:15-8:30 range that more "adult" formats get. Most CHR's are more like 5:30 (or less). Why? Because of the constant repetition of the CHR format. Most CHR's will rotate their "hot currents" 90-100 times a week. And when you're repeating some songs as quickly as every 45 to 70 minutes, you have little chance of keeping listeners for a long time. So, CHR's have always been cume magnets and not strictly TSL driven. High shares are possible at lower TSL with high cumes. So, CHR's slam the hits down people's throats to keep a constant stream of listeners coming back with more "occasions of listening".

I will give you that repetition can hurt TSL, though I would also argue that if your playing the correct powers the 60-90 minute repetition won't hurt you. Spot load will kill you more than anything else with TSL. Also if you have good air talent, CHR can beat adult formats in TSL. If you want to be a music jukebox with commercials, then TSL is not an option.

The more adult formats (A/C, Country, etc) will spin "hot currents" more like every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. Less repetition means higher TSL. These stations will not have the cume of a CHR...but can often beat them with greater TSL. Adults are more sensitive to hearing the same songs over and over, hence the slower rotations. Not necessarily so with teens and young adults.



CHR is a more expensive format because of the promotional expenses that are also most often involved, particularly if you're in a market with more than one CHR or CHR-derivitive station. Those "fly aways" and "big money" contests cost big bucks to do them right. You don't have to spend that money if you're the only game in town.

Look at the old WNCI/WXGT battle in Columbus in the 80's. Every weekend, 92X would come up with a contest (say, tickets to a hot concert, with a chance to win a fly away to see the artist in Las Vegas). WNCI might counter by giving away the exact same prize, plus $1000 in spending money. It's the kind of thing they often did back then. And that's what kept 'NCI on top. But that's what you have to do in a highly competitive market, if you're going to do it right. And, you have to have the budget to be "bigger than life".

I completely disagree with this argument on multiple fronts. First promotions have little impact on ratings no matter what you are giving away. Secondly, while things are slightly different now after the recent payola investigations, the only thing a flyaway cost a station was playing Guster 7 spins a week in overnights. Above board you can use trade to create bigger than life promotions such as giving away a car. It is still very unnecessary to spend tons of money to win a CHR battle or win in the ratings programming a CHR. Today Viral marketing is much easier and less expensive with YouTube, Myspace, station websites, etc. Not to mention all the NTR that can be generated if used properly that could always be fed back into contest budgets.

Unfortunately, where Dayton is concerned, few of the stations have done anything like this for years. Or else what they do is "smoke and mirrors". Which is why you (until just recently) had 2 CHR's with only a combined 4.5 share or so. The former Z-93 could have stayed more competitive and had better numbers had they been given more promotional budget for giveaways and been the "promo monster" of the market, like a good CHR is supposed to be. Yes, there were other considerations that would have also helped. But, the last few years, Z had been doing some pretty crappy promotions.

Doing this would also have helped keep the station from losing some of its' younger adult women to Mix 107-7, which had the "promo monster" image simply because of better contesting. When Z had a 12 share of the market, they were doing all of those things and more.

You put way to much credit to contesting when it comes to increasing market share. Its more about the total on air package from music, imaging, and air talent. Trying to bribe listeners simply doesn't work. Radio is about being informative, entertaining, interactive and intriguing not giving away movie tickets and plane rides.

Tito:

Radio stations have been "buying" listeners for decades. If it wasn't affecting the numbers, why would a station like WNCI give away a $200,000 home every summer for a number of years? Yes, they also got sponsorships with it. But, it had to be a win/win promotion or it wouldn't happen. Why does a Mix 107-7 or a K-99.1 (or whoever?) give away prizes a thousand, two thousand or five-thousand dollars at a time? It moves the ratings needle. If it didn't, the stations would not waste the money doing it. You are correct, however, that you must have the right music, good imaging and a talented, imaginative air staff. But, if you have all of that, and no promotion budget, you'll have a great deal harder time getting the numbers, especially if you have stiff competition. Radio companies research the type of prizes that listeners tell them would get them to listen more often, then endeavor to give them away. When WCOL-FM in Columbus flipped to country in 1995, they went from #6 to #1 adults 25-54 in about 6-9 months. Sure, the format was right, the personalities clicked, the station was tight and together. It didn't also hurt that we had 350 points/week of over the air TV advertising for the first 6 weeks, and in the first full book gave away about $80,000 in cash.

Flyaways cost you money...if...you "add to them" by making them even bigger than life with the $1,000 cash for spending money. That did not come from the record label. It came from the station budget. But, remember, I talked about doing it right...not the way some stations do it today. And, such things today are now frowned upon, for reasons you just mentioned.

Give away a car? Sure...you can make it "bigger than life". But make sure it's a "bigger than life" car. (We got more "bang for the buck" giving away a $40,000 classic kit car than a $6,000 1965 Mustang at one station I worked). No average sedan will work. Believe me, I got hoodwinked more than once in my career with a sales manager who got us a "giveaway" car, only to find it was a used piece of crap, or a scaled-down, cheapest-you-can-buy-of-the-model. "Trading", dollar-for-dollar a car is difficult to do these days. Usually, the car manufacturer or dealer will want perhaps as much as three to five times (maybe more) the value of the car before they'll even discuss it.

Your points on viral marketing are interesting. (I don't deny it can have an effect on the teen and young adult market.) But, I would use my promotion budget together with my viral marketing to get even more "bang for the buck".

Don't think us older guys aren't paying attention to You Tube and the other areas where viral marketing is used. And, don't think we're above using it.

On TSL: The fast rotations cause the faster tune out in the CHR arena. But, good CHR's compensate for it by giving people reasons to come back often. CHR is not designed to be a high TSL format, and has, thus far, never proven to be such. If you could figure out how to do it, I would invite you to. You would prove to be one of the most valuable CHR Program Directors in America. Go for it!

On NTR: Many radio companies are beginning to move away from it (unless you have an event that makes sense from a financial and return aspect to do.) Otherwise, they're too much hassle. Too much liability. Too much cost. Better to put that money into your station websites...where, as you suggest, you could put your viral marketing to work.

 

[kentuckymedia]

Jason, you are very correct on everything you said.

I want to point out a few examples on why Top 40 or Contemporary Hits are hard formats to program and sell.

Sharon Dastur at WHTZ "Z100" in New York has admitted and proven that the most listened to radio station in the world is just that "THE MOST LISTENED TO". However, it has only mediocre TSL and this station has the best talent in the United States, the hottest promotions and imaging, etc.

Leslie Whittle claims and once again proves that KRBE is the most listened to radio station in Texas, but here is another example of high Cume and low TSL. Not her fault, not Sharon's, not John Ivey's, etc.

Top 40 is "HIGH BURN" which means its supposed to have "HIGH TURNOVER". When you use the analogy of TSL/CUME TURNOVER Ratio, the average Top 40 station should only have a 18 to 19 TCT while most have a 23 or 24. The average Adult Format has a TCT of 12. The lower the better.

Promotions and Marketing are extremely important. Yes, Viral marketing is "OKAY" but it wont win numbers and it sure as hell wont win dollars. Companies who want to have successful Top 40 stations need to spend the mean green and lots of it. Top 40 should be on Television, Billboards, Bus Stops, Newspaper, etc. Its about being seen and partially on whats being heard. Adult Top 40 is more about whats being heard, but also being seen...not necessarily hitting the street, but marketing is very very important for Adult Top 40. Music crossing, Sample Commuting is a must. Rhythmic Top 40 is more important with just playing the hits over and over and being at every bar known to man.

Adult Top 40's need to focus more on Women, what makes them tick, etc. Mainstream Top 40 should be about 60/40 women/men. Play the hits, go out and make them happy. Rhythmic should be about 50/50 just play the hits over and over and over and go out everywhere they are. The older the listener gets, the more interested they are in just hearing their music and things they recognize. You have to be more "connected" than "in your face".

If a corporation who isnt so worried about meeting the bottom dollar book after book and has money to burn, they will keep Channel Top 40. However, if its someone who is more conservative or budget driven, they will go into a more "Adult" mode with the station.

 

[KFodor]

Thanks, Kentucky for the assist. You, too are correct in your explanations.

A friend of mine at work had another observation about CHR programming that I thought was worth mentioning and it kinda dovetails with some of things you said.

A good CHR (and good stations in general) try to create "buzz" in a town, which helps drive listeners to it. And, you use your promotional budget as well in this endeavor.

Case in point: a CHR in West Virginia who used billboards to create a "buzz" about a book promotion.
The first week, the billboards had the station logo and the phrase "Giving away $1000 Thursday morning at 7:15!" The next week, that phrase was pasted over by another phrase: "Giving away $2,500 Thursday morning at 7:15!" By the 4th week, the pasted-over billboard read: "Giving away $10,000 Thursday morning at 7:15!". People would talk about this at the water-cooler and on the street...because they didn't know how high the money would go.

CHR morning shows create "buzz" by doing stunts (which often are really promotions in disguise). The "Survivor" type car giveaways where you live in the car for as long as you can, with the stations doing live remotes every morning from the giveaway site. The morning show living on a billboard in the dead of winter until (your favorite, but losing NFL team) wins a game. All of these create "buzz". It's another key factor to making a station "bigger than life". Viral marketing will help...but won't be what creates the "buzz". And you need the outside promotion to take it to the next level.

All that said, though...it's harder to do locally with limited promotional money...or a syndicated morning show that's not in your hometown. It's not absolutely impossible, but a lot harder to do. I've been on both sides of this in my programming and on-air careers.

 

[mustardz]

I swear, I thought I heard Fryeguy broadcasting on Channel 945..

 

[lovejamminoldies]

Frye Guy? Really.. probably for the Happy Hour thing they do. Might have been E. E actually VT's nights now. It all sounds the same. Listener-created drops, with no good rotation.

 

[mustardz]

Yeah Drake and Frye sound similar.