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Chautauqua County Radio

W

WCWalker

Guest
Hello all. I'd like to get your feedback on the following:

I have resumed my search for the right place to launch a commercial Part 15 AM radio station. I'm looking at several locations in NY and PA. Eventually, I hope the Part 15 AM station will lead to a licensed LPAM or LPFM station. I've been off the air for three years now and I am itching to return to the air from a place that will welcome a new, small community station. My timetable for startup is between one and two years from now.

Could Jamestown support a Full Service Part 15 AM station? Thanks to the use of multiple transmitters or a single unit in the right location I could effectively cover the entire city limits with a listenable signal. Having been there numerous times it is apparent they have very few radio signals serving that city.

Could Dunkirk support the same concept?
 
William C. Walker said:
Hello all. I'd like to get your feedback on the following:

I have resumed my search for the right place to launch a commercial Part 15 AM radio station. I'm looking at several locations in NY and PA. Eventually, I hope the Part 15 AM station will lead to a licensed LPAM or LPFM station. I've been off the air for three years now and I am itching to return to the air from a place that will welcome a new, small community station. My timetable for startup is between one and two years from now.

Could Jamestown support a Full Service Part 15 AM station? Thanks to the use of multiple transmitters or a single unit in the right location I could effectively cover the entire city limits with a listenable signal. Having been there numerous times it is apparent they have very few radio signals serving that city. Could Dunkirk support the same concept?
Click to expand...
Do you wish to make money or is your investment going to be a tax write off or a charitable venture. Take a look at what companies own the stations in those communities. The answer may tell you what you need to know about establishing a successful Part 15 radio station.

The economy and terrain of Chatauqua county are challenging to say the least. "Being there" is a good start, however "living and doing business there" would prove the ultimate test. Your (ad)venture in Medina should give you an indicator of what Jamestown and Dunkirk (which by the way is Fredonia-Dunkirk, and although conjoined, they are entirely different communities) might be.

It's not how many or how few the signals are, it's the capacity of the business community to support those signals. Fredonia-Dunkirk falls under the umbrella of Buffalo AND Erie. Jamestown gets some Buffalo signals.

My guess is the communities are saturated.
 
Spare change. Thanks for your perspective.

Medina was more of a misadventure. The biggest problem there was the local village government. Aside from that every other issue was manageable and in time could have been worked out. I certainly was not lacking for volunteers at the station.

WNY has a lot of people that possess real community spirit. I like that and that is something that is really needed to help a community station succeed. Recently the GM of a Buffalo area AM station wanted to develop a "synergistic" relationship with my Part 15 station but I declined simply because I was uncertain about locating my station either in Erie or Niagara Counties. Both counties have serious problems at the city and county level and I wondered whether or not I'd have a replay of Medina all over again.

Dunkirk and Jamestown strike me as being far better managed than most WNY cities. Dunkirk has not had a tax increase in NINE years, according to one member of the Fredonia Village Council that I spoke to. I know that WDOE and WJTN get some support in the community (listeners and advertisers alike) indicating there is a market for AM radio still.
 
The disturbing thing about radio in Jamestown is that ONE company owns all four of the commercial stations licensed to that city, as well as another station licensed to a nearby town in PA. Then there is the cluster of three stations in Warren, PA. So, two radio companies control much of the commercial radio scene in that area. The only exceptions to this would be WKZA (106.9) and WDOE/WBKX, which are still locally owned I believe.
Now, the non-commercial scene looks like this; J-town already has three licensed LPFMs. One is WRFA, on 107.9. This one is owned by the Arts Council for Chataqua county. I've checked out their website. The programming is very eclectic. Though much of it appears to be syndicated. I'm not sure just what role community volunteers play at the station. The other two LPFMs are owned by churches in the area, so I"m guessing its all pay-for-pray on those two. There is also WCVF, the SUNY college station. I beleive they allow community members to do shows to some extent, but not 100% sure on that.
Then there are three full-power non-comm stations in J-town. WUBJ and WNJA which carry public radio stations from Buffalo, and WCOT which carries Family Life religion.
Hope this is of help to you WIlliam. I'm a proud supporter of the development of community radio, so I wish you the best in your ventures.
 
Hi Jake:

Thanks for the input. I was not aware that all of the LPFM's had taken to the air. However, they likely draw a different audience than my proposed station. Having most of the commercial entities owned by a single company is not what I call good competition. Granted, if my station took to the air it would hardly make a dent in the rating s or their wallets, it would at least provide a real independent alternative to the existing fare. I am certain that over time a respectable audience would listen to the station and eventually, some kind of support from area businesses would follow.

I've done research on similarly sized markets to Jamestown and it appears to be underserved at least in terms of the overall number of local signals. Same thing for Dunkirk-Fredonia though they do get a lot of signals that shoot over Lake Erie from Buffalo and Canada.

Do you live right in Jamestown Jake?
 
Picklereport. Yep, that is something I definitely have taken into consideration. Roughly 20% of the residents of Dunkirk are of Hispanic origin. A friend of mine in Lebanon, PA married a gal from Central America and they started up a part 15 AM station for the Hispanic population in Lebanon. After a few years of solid sales figures (lots of advertising from area businesses) they were able to start up a licensed LPFM outlet there.

I could envision brokering out a few hours a week to Hispanic groups that would like to air their programming. I am not Spanish and don't speak the language and could not even begin to know how to program a station to meet their needs.
 
Part 15 Radio, Realist's Perspective

I have resumed my search for the right place to launch a commercial Part 15 AM radio station. I'm looking at several locations in NY and PA. Eventually, I hope the Part 15 AM station will lead to a licensed LPAM or LPFM station. I've been off the air for three years now and I am itching to return to the air from a place that will welcome a new, small community station. My timetable for startup is between one and two years from now. Could Jamestown support a Full Service Part 15 AM station? Thanks to the use of multiple transmitters or a single unit in the right location I could effectively cover the entire city limits with a listenable signal. Having been there numerous times it is apparent they have very few radio signals serving that city. Could Dunkirk support the same concept?
Click to expand...
No, and neither will Utica-Rome, Pittsburgh and all the other markets you're cross-board-posting with your Part 15 questionaire.

Please don't take this personally Mr. Walker, I mean you no disprespect, but your Part 15 station WILL BE PUMMELED whether you set them up in Lackawanna, Medina, Jamestown, Frewsburg, Dunkirk or East Bumfart. People listen to radio stations they can get in their homes, offices and cars.

Full power AM stations like 1 kW WDOE and 50kW WWKB fight for every listener they can get. What are you going to do that's more compelling than, oh, I dunno, spin the wheel o' stations and pick one: WBEN, WBTA, WJTN, WLVL, WKSN, WUBJ, WDOE. What are you gonna do? Please, don't say "localize" because even stations like WJJL try to localize (you'll notice I picked the runt of the litter to use as an example) and stations like WBTA and WLVL do it better... the you get to the "big boys" like WHAM and WBEN... mercy, are you a glutton for punishment?

Here's a suggestion: Why not (try to) go to WORK for one of the stations in Dunkirk, Lockporty or Batavia and SELL your concept on the air and on the streets? You'll make some money as the AE for one of your specialize programming and if it's REALLY good, rather than do an hour or two a week, you might get an hour or two a day. The station manager will love you, the listeners will love you... oh, and one more thing... the listeners will be able to HEAR you. What a concept!

You eventually want an LPFM? Join the feakin' club! Every disco-mobile-jock, radio activist and wannabe in Western New York wants an LPFM... but, and you may have noticed this with your Medina set-up, the AM and FM bands in Western New York are probably the most populated (congested) bands in the country because a sovereign nation is just a few miles away and they have lots of radio stations of their own. Even with second adjacency lattitude, the bands are already loaded.

Had you been pro-active, you could have applied for 92.1 in Amherst when the window was open about a year ago.

Oh, and by the way, the Charter for WCVF-FM at SUNY Fredonia does allow and require community participation. It's one of the finest college FM's in the SUNY system for that reason alone.

You're pullin' a real Don Quixote dreaming about Part 15 stations, WCW. Are you for real or just posting for pub? Because (allow me to be frank here) you kinda have a reputation for stirrin' the pot and looking for attention.

Taters!

-9-
 
Element9. Thanks for your perspective. Frankly, I am not overly concerned with my reputation on this or any other message board. There are successful part 15 AM stations that garner considerable support from area businesses and have a strong listening base. Since I know a couple of these people personally (and it is likely that you do not) I take your "can't do" attitude and negative response with a grain of salt. Why are you so bitter?

A properly installed FCC Type Accepted part 15 AM transmitter can reach homes and businesses beyond a mile radius, both day and night depending upon the ground conductivity in a given area. Add multiple units and synch them together and the range will increase allowing for a greater coverage area. Clearly you don't fully understand the concept otherwise you would not have come across so negatively.
 
I understand it, we have a part 15 here in the Charlotte area with good coverage on 87.9. You know what? Nobody listens to it. I have told other Ham radio friends about it and there response indicates they couldn't care less. So why bother?

Before I got into radio a friend of mine and I used to broadcast to the neighbors using his Remco radio transmitter. Then I grew up and got a job in radio. Well actually I'm still working on the growing up part!

I know this sounds cruel, sorry about that but I have to agree with "9" on this one. If you are serious get some investors and buy a real radio station.
 
My recommendation is to try and work with an exsisting station.
WJJL may wish to have you as their new owner...but respectfully, I could be wrong.

Outside of that, I look forward to listening to your brand new station and I wish you all the best.

I'm not in the Buffalo area at this time, (I'm in Canada) so also, if you could stream your station online, that would be great.

By the way...is there a website? With streaming active for everyone to enjoy in the meantime?
This would be a great way to draw attention to the early stages of this new station of yours...
 
Mike Sheridan.

Part 15 AM and FM are two completely different animals.

Part 15 FM is limited by Field Strength which means your effective range may be a quarter of a mile or a bit more depending upon how high up in the air you mount the transmitter. In contrast, Part 15 AM is governed by antenna length plus ground and a power limit of 100 mw. The range of a properly installed and tuned professional FCC approved Part 15 AM transmitter will be more than a mile to several miles in many cases.

I have friends that are also Ham buffs and a lot of them don't use the radio beyond their Ham sets. Broadcast radio is for the masses and not the hobbyists. Since I am personally acquainted with a number of Part 15 AM broadcast station owners and know of countless others I have a very good idea of what can be accomplished with such a station. Generally the naysayers like yourself and Element9 are people that are not fully informed on the subject.

Yeziknoradio. When I am in Buffalo I do listen to WJJL. I like the station and the fact that they are still involved in the community. Streaming is a possibility but right now it is taking a back seat to the development of the over the air station.

Right now I am still in a fact finding stage. I have not made any final decision regarding where I am going to relaunch this station. Clearly, I don't want to make any of the mistakes I made with Medina and for that reason I am doing a lot of homework.
 
William C. Walker said:
Element9. Thanks for your perspective. Frankly, I am not overly concerned with my reputation on this or any other message board. There are successful part 15 AM stations that garner considerable support from area businesses and have a strong listening base. Since I know a couple of these people personally (and it is likely that you do not) I take your "can't do" attitude and negative response with a grain of salt. Why are you so bitter?

A properly installed FCC Type Accepted part 15 AM transmitter can reach homes and businesses beyond a mile radius, both day and night depending upon the ground conductivity in a given area. Add multiple units and synch them together and the range will increase allowing for a greater coverage area. Clearly you don't fully understand the concept otherwise you would not have come across so negatively.
Click to expand...
Whoa! A mile radius! Well, it's likely you'll have clients knocking your door down with your expertise and reputation which will no doubt precede you! It's your time, talent and money. Knock yerself out.

Bitter? Que? Moi?

Not bitter. Realistic, pragmatic... ummmm, maybe skeptical yet not cynical. I'm sure you're going in with your eyes wide open, so go nuts.
-9-
 
Not Bitter? Caustic?

Element9 said:
Bitter? Que? Moi?

Not bitter. Realistic, pragmatic... ummmm, maybe skeptical yet not cynical.
Click to expand...

I just looked up Element 9 in the periodic table, and it came up with Flourine. To quote the properties of Element 9:

Fluorine is the most electronegative and reactive of all elements. It is a pale yellow, corrosive gas, which reacts with practically all organic and inorganic substances. Finely divided metals, glass, ceramics, carbon, and even water burn in fluorine with a bright flame.

But, Element 9 is good at preventing tooth decay...

...and has a pretty good handle on the situation in Chautauqua County.
 
First of all, I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable at all about Part 15 radio stations. But I must ask what you could do that makes you think you would be able to compete in Jamestown? Yes, the four commercial radio stations are owned by one company. But WJTN continues to run like it always has with a very strong local presence. Their mid-morning host, Jim Roselle, is a local legend. He's been on the air at WJTN for 52 years. That's a story in and of itself. I don't think anyone else in Western New York can claim such longevity at one station. WWSE on the FM has local personalities playing adult contemporary. WHUG has the country franchise, again with local personalities. WKSN appears to be heavily syndicated, though it does run Rush. Plus, WUBJ brings NPR to Jamestown while classical music is featured on WNJA. You'd have to offer something that none of these six strong radio stations are offering. I'm at a loss to figure out what that could be. If you couldn't make a go of it in Medina with no local competition, regardless of the problems you had with the village board, I don't see how you can be successful in such a saturated market.
 
Why think small?

The FCC is now beginning to reopen the upper end of the AM band (1610-1700) and accepting new applications. One is about to be licensed on 1700 in the Hudson Valley here in NY State (the CP application has already been accepted for filing). Looking at the allocations now in effect, 1630 looks like a good channel for Chautaqua County.

If you got it, you'd be licensed for a single-stick operation with 10,000 watts daytime, 1,000 watts at night.

If you got an authorization for that kind of signal, you'd most likely get all the financing you need to build it, and if it's well programmed and connects with the local community, you'd make money. Every car, portable and table radio made in the last 15 years can pick up top-of-the-band signals, so you'd be at very little competitive disadvantage, and the coverage you'd get would be better than anything currently on the air from either Dunkirk or Jamestown. You could make yourself into Chautaqua County's WBEN.

Why not look into it?
 
William C. Walker said:
Mike Sheridan.

Part 15 AM and FM are two completely different animals.

Part 15 FM is limited by Field Strength which means your effective range may be a quarter of a mile or a bit more depending upon how high up in the air you mount the transmitter. In contrast, Part 15 AM is governed by antenna length plus ground and a power limit of 100 mw. The range of a properly installed and tuned professional FCC approved Part 15 AM transmitter will be more than a mile to several miles in many cases.
Click to expand...

I don't know what they were running here but I just checked 87.9 and it was off. They had an AM Part 15 on 1610 and it didn't go as far as the FM.

My question still stands...why bother? Are you going to offer local information? Do you have the resources to do EANS in case of an emergency? How many advertisers are interested in a station that covers a quarter mile (under optimal conditions).
 
The FCC is now beginning to reopen the upper end of the AM band (1610-1700) and accepting new applications.
Click to expand...

I had thought they weren't currently accepting applications, at least not this year. Where do you find out information on this? FCC website?
 
Ramsey kits and the like will broadcast a quarter of a mile. An FCC Type Approved Part 15 AM transmitter has a much greater range than ANY kit or FM Part 15 transmitter.

To the worst of my knowledge the FCC is not going to be taking any new applications on the AM band at any point in time in the near future. However, I and some others are attempting to create a new licensed LPAM service but at present, the Petition we filed is sitting in a holding pattern at the FCC in DC.
 
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