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Cheap Channel Broadchasing at it in the OV

C

captainrexk

Got a tip from the Cleveland board about CC talk of closing down the legendary Capitol Music Hall in Wheeling. Here's the article from Thursday's Wheeling News-Register
http://www.news-register.net/news/story1222202005_new01.asp

IMHO it's a bad move. Wheeling's already a blighted community, and closing the last link to a better era will kill that city. It probably won't kill Jamboree In The Hills though....CC probably makes a nice penny from all of those drunken perverted 'necks. But CC also has their stations in the windowfronts of the Capitol Music Hall, so if they DO close the hall, I could see someone going postal on them. But Jamboree USA used to pack them in Saturday nights & had them broadcast on 1170AM.
 
> But CC also has their
> stations in the windowfronts of the Capitol Music Hall, so
> if they DO close the hall, I could see someone going postal
> on them. But Jamboree USA used to pack them in Saturday
> nights & had them broadcast on 1170AM.

I was one of the engineers that built those street level studios back in the 90's, and those windows are bullet proof. well we got them because of the sound proofing, but it was an added bonus to protect the computers, I mean jocks
 
> Got a tip from the Cleveland board about CC talk of closing
> down the legendary Capitol Music Hall in Wheeling. Here's
> the article from Thursday's Wheeling News-Register
> http://www.news-register.net/news/story1222202005_new01.asp
>
> IMHO it's a bad move. Wheeling's already a blighted
> community, and closing the last link to a better era will
> kill that city. It probably won't kill Jamboree In The
> Hills though....CC probably makes a nice penny from all of
> those drunken perverted 'necks. But CC also has their
> stations in the windowfronts of the Capitol Music Hall, so
> if they DO close the hall, I could see someone going postal
> on them. But Jamboree USA used to pack them in Saturday
> nights & had them broadcast on 1170AM.

Whether Wheeling makes a comeback or continues to experience the problems of most rust belt cities is based on far more than whether or not live music venue gets closed down or not.

The world has survived the ending of lots of eras. There was a time when most of the music played on the radio was played live in theatres in front of real audiences. Those days are long gone. I can remember when WAMO's studios were on the Blvd of the Allies in a small theatre, and visiting Porky Chedwick spinning records on WAMO-FM from a small table-top studio set-up lost in the corner of that huge space. I can remember my first audition at WJPA in the basement of the George Washington Hotel, where they had several studios capable of holding small bands or orchestras.

But except for the 'DVE coffeehouse, there are ver, very few live broadcasts of music anymore. And one or two songs a week on 'DVE is a far cry from complete musical shows.

Times changes. Nothing lasts forever.

Vaudeville is gone.

Scripted radio programs with characters and plots are gone.

Radio game shows are gone, except for the few on PRI like "What Do You Know?"

Why should a company lose money keeping a relic of the past operating?
 
> http://www.news-register.net/news/story1222202005_new01.asp

Me: IMHO it's a bad move. Wheeling's already a blighted
> > community, and closing the last link to a better era will
> > kill that city.

RR: Whether Wheeling makes a comeback or continues to experience
> the problems of most rust belt cities is based on far more
> than whether or not live music venue gets closed down or
> not.
My reply: it's a bad move as far as the city & the businesses that surround it are concerned. It's one of the last revenue makers for them left, other than Wesbanco Arena. But the Nailers draw just an average of 2,561 per game, 3rd lowest in the league. So the city will do whatever it can to try to keep a guaranteed money maker alive regardless of what it is.


RR: The world has survived the ending of lots of eras. There was
> a time when most of the music played on the radio was played
> live in theatres in front of real audiences. Those days are
> long gone.
ME: CMH was more than Jamboree USA. They've had other concerts there over the years, i.e. the B.E. Taylor Christmas Show last night & regular performances of the Wheeling Symphony. I understand from watching Channel 9 last night that just 2 shows are scheduled for it in '06. And if you look over the years at just what acts have played there, it IS far fewer than its heyday. My thoughts are that the city & the businesses want to keep it open to get $ from the people that go to the Hall.....and live music fans want to keep it open because without it, there are fewer options. Not every music act is going to want to play Wesbanco Arena, and fans of different generes aren't all going to go out of the way to PG Pavilion, Mellon Arena, et al to see a show.

RR: But except for the 'DVE coffeehouse, there are ver, very few
> live broadcasts of music anymore. And one or two songs a
> week on 'DVE is a far cry from complete musical shows.
ME: It's not just about the live music shows. CC pretty much abandoned that when they took over 1170 and d%#&!d around with the format and did away with country on the AM.

RR: Why should a company lose money keeping a relic of the past
> operating?
ME: They pretty much did it themselves.....did all they could to screw it into the ground & then spin the blame elsewhere. And when the cost to build it back up is too great for anyone else to bear, just shut it down & take the tax write off. It's a burden that an 800-pound gorilla can bear.
 
The bottom line is this:

Whether it's a particular radio station playing a certain format, or a live performance/concert venue, or a pizza parlor, if enough people want it to remain in business the way it is, then their continued support of the thing, whether by tuning in, buying tickets, or ordering pizzas, will be enough to convince whoever runs the business to keep it running the way it is. But if there isn't enough support, if not enough people want it, sooner or later it will cease operations, one way or the other. Whoever owns the business will either be smart enough to quit while he's ahead, or will wait to simply go under.

It's a shame that Wheeling is going down the tubes, but there's a lot more behind that than what Clear Channel is up to. Cities grow and thrive because of economic reasons. They sometimes wither and die when times change. That's an eternal fact of life. Back in the 1800's, towns like Dodge City, Kansas or Tombstone, Arizona were major cities. They aren't any more.

Clear Channel's actions in Wheeling aren't the cause of Wheeling's problems, they are the symptom.

> >
> http://www.news-register.net/news/story1222202005_new01.asp
>
> Me: IMHO it's a bad move. Wheeling's already a blighted
> > > community, and closing the last link to a better era
> will
> > > kill that city.
>
> RR: Whether Wheeling makes a comeback or continues to
> experience
> > the problems of most rust belt cities is based on far more
>
> > than whether or not live music venue gets closed down or
> > not.
> My reply: it's a bad move as far as the city & the
> businesses that surround it are concerned. It's one of the
> last revenue makers for them left, other than Wesbanco
> Arena. But the Nailers draw just an average of 2,561 per
> game, 3rd lowest in the league. So the city will do
> whatever it can to try to keep a guaranteed money maker
> alive regardless of what it is.
>
>
> RR: The world has survived the ending of lots of eras.
> There was
> > a time when most of the music played on the radio was
> played
> > live in theatres in front of real audiences. Those days
> are
> > long gone.
> ME: CMH was more than Jamboree USA. They've had other
> concerts there over the years, i.e. the B.E. Taylor
> Christmas Show last night & regular performances of the
> Wheeling Symphony. I understand from watching Channel 9
> last night that just 2 shows are scheduled for it in '06.
> And if you look over the years at just what acts have played
> there, it IS far fewer than its heyday. My thoughts are
> that the city & the businesses want to keep it open to get $
> from the people that go to the Hall.....and live music fans
> want to keep it open because without it, there are fewer
> options. Not every music act is going to want to play
> Wesbanco Arena, and fans of different generes aren't all
> going to go out of the way to PG Pavilion, Mellon Arena, et
> al to see a show.
>
> RR: But except for the 'DVE coffeehouse, there are ver,
> very few
> > live broadcasts of music anymore. And one or two songs a
> > week on 'DVE is a far cry from complete musical shows.
> ME: It's not just about the live music shows. CC pretty
> much abandoned that when they took over 1170 and d%#&!d
> around with the format and did away with country on the AM.
>
> RR: Why should a company lose money keeping a relic of the
> past
> > operating?
> ME: They pretty much did it themselves.....did all they
> could to screw it into the ground & then spin the blame
> elsewhere. And when the cost to build it back up is too
> great for anyone else to bear, just shut it down & take the
> tax write off. It's a burden that an 800-pound gorilla can
> bear.
>
 
Radio-

I usually think you have the best posts on here- but this time I have to disagree.

I think the Capitol could make money and be a major tourist draw. That Jamboree they have features big, big name country acts every weekend and there are plenty of other shows that are there all the time, too.

Kenny Rogers, Rebecca Lynn Howard, and Billy Dean just played there on Dec. 10 for a Christmas concert. B.E. Taylor is supposed to play there soon. There are a lot of acts going through the place.

Historically, an amazing amount of bands played there. AC/DC with Bon Scott played there in 1977 in one of their first American shows.

The point is that I wonder if it's really struggling or if Clear Channel is looking at a tax write off and are all that good of owners in the first place.

They never advertise the place. I like country and have lived in Pittsburgh for decades and never knew that the Jamboree existed until just September when I drove through Wheeling and discovered the venue.

I hear about the slots parlors all the time in Wheeling- which I don't care about. I hear about the Nailers- but why drive an hour to see them when I can watch the NHL Penguins with living legends at home? I hear about Jills Gentleman's Lounge- for God's sake- but not the Capitol Music Center!!!!

The one entity that Wheeling has that would draw me from Pittsburgh or wherever- a small-scale Grand Ol' Opry so to speak- I knew nothing about.

And I would be its target audience.

Point is- get an owner willing to promote the place and I'm sure it will be fine. I'm SURE it will be fine.

I'm not sure Wheeling is as bleak as you make it out to be. No way is it Braddock or McKeesport, for instance.

It shares the same problems many of the rust belt towns have but with entities like Capitol it can still shine and shine brightly.
 
Re: Radio-

If it is as viable a business proposition as your post would indicate (and I kdon't know if it is or not), if Clear Channel does close the place, I'm sure some entrepeneur will buy it, re-open it, and operate it. It's been my experience that if there's money to be made a any sort of venture like this, someone will come along and start making it.

But bear in mind, sometimes a venue might appear to be a viable business operation, but it turns out there are hidden structural flaws or other problems that would make operations too expensive. I've talked to two different promoters who almost boght the South Hills Theatre in Dormont as a concert venue, and both backed out because the building has major problems.

Is the Capital Music Center in good condition, or does it need work? I honestly don't know the answer to that, but I'll bet those who currently own it do know.


> I usually think you have the best posts on here- but this
> time I have to disagree.
>
> I think the Capitol could make money and be a major tourist
> draw. That Jamboree they have features big, big name country
> acts every weekend and there are plenty of other shows that
> are there all the time, too.
>
> Kenny Rogers, Rebecca Lynn Howard, and Billy Dean just
> played there on Dec. 10 for a Christmas concert. B.E. Taylor
> is supposed to play there soon. There are a lot of acts
> going through the place.
>
> Historically, an amazing amount of bands played there. AC/DC
> with Bon Scott played there in 1977 in one of their first
> American shows.
>
> The point is that I wonder if it's really struggling or if
> Clear Channel is looking at a tax write off and are all that
> good of owners in the first place.
>
> They never advertise the place. I like country and have
> lived in Pittsburgh for decades and never knew that the
> Jamboree existed until just September when I drove through
> Wheeling and discovered the venue.
>
> I hear about the slots parlors all the time in Wheeling-
> which I don't care about. I hear about the Nailers- but why
> drive an hour to see them when I can watch the NHL Penguins
> with living legends at home? I hear about Jills Gentleman's
> Lounge- for God's sake- but not the Capitol Music Center!!!!
>
>
> The one entity that Wheeling has that would draw me from
> Pittsburgh or wherever- a small-scale Grand Ol' Opry so to
> speak- I knew nothing about.
>
> And I would be its target audience.
>
> Point is- get an owner willing to promote the place and I'm
> sure it will be fine. I'm SURE it will be fine.
>
> I'm not sure Wheeling is as bleak as you make it out to be.
> No way is it Braddock or McKeesport, for instance.
>
> It shares the same problems many of the rust belt towns have
> but with entities like Capitol it can still shine and shine
> brightly.
>
 
> Why should a company lose money keeping a relic of the past
> operating?

I don't really disagree, but I will make this point that is being missed but may not change anything...

Clear Channel owns the Capitol Music Hall.

Not only that, but their studios are in the building (for whatever that's worth. They could move into the Greentree Flashcube, complete with fairly new WDVE sign (when did that happen?) and no one would be any wiser).

I think that if CC owns the building, they'd want to get something out of it.

Now, one more wrinkle--is it owned by CC Radio, or by the former CC Entertainment (now Live-something or other)?
 
Re: Radio-

I haven't gone over it the way a building inspector might, but I haven't seen anyone say it is a crumbling structure.

If you go by it it appears to be in great shape. I was in the lobby- and perhaps the lobby wasn't of extravagant luxury but it wasn't dirty or run down or anything like that.

Go by it any time of day and there are always people around the Capitol Music Center- and you can't say that about too many places in Wheeling except maybe the 7-11 and the CVS Drug Store.

I'm generally in the minority- I don't think that big business has destroyed radio- I think the Clear Channels and the Infinities and Citadels have improved the talent and programming standards in most markets.

But I would present to you the theory that with the lack of advertising that place has- that you have a big business who sees a local theatre in an old Rust Belt town and they jump to conclusions.
 
Re: Radio-

If the faliures of the Capitol Music Center are the result of poor management by Clear Channel (and I include advertising and promotion as part of management), then perhaps it's a positive thing that they are getting rid of it. As I said, if there is bona-fide potential there, I'm sure someone will exploit that potential.

But, regardless of whether or not Clear Channel's failure to make sufficient profit from operating the building is because of a bad business climate or Clear Channel's lack of expertise in running live venues, if they aren't making a go of it, then getting out of the business would still be the best thing for everyone concerned, including the people of Wheeling and vicinity.

> I haven't gone over it the way a building inspector might,
> but I haven't seen anyone say it is a crumbling structure.
>
> If you go by it it appears to be in great shape. I was in
> the lobby- and perhaps the lobby wasn't of extravagant
> luxury but it wasn't dirty or run down or anything like
> that.
>
> Go by it any time of day and there are always people around
> the Capitol Music Center- and you can't say that about too
> many places in Wheeling except maybe the 7-11 and the CVS
> Drug Store.
>
> I'm generally in the minority- I don't think that big
> business has destroyed radio- I think the Clear Channels and
> the Infinities and Citadels have improved the talent and
> programming standards in most markets.
>
> But I would present to you the theory that with the lack of
> advertising that place has- that you have a big business who
> sees a local theatre in an old Rust Belt town and they jump
> to conclusions.
>
 
Re: WWVA and Capital Music Hall

Pratte4, you've raised a very good point here. Just to add some additional info:

1. The Wheeling Jamboree (later Jamboree USA) is the third oldest barn dance program in the country after WLS National Barn Dance and the WSM Grand Old Op'ry.

2. The Jamboree has significant brand recognition.

3. Country music is a viable radio and concert format.

4. WWVA serves a market that can support the venue and the format and a broader market area that does and will attend these events when properly marketed.

Somewhere along the line in the past 10 years, the execution of both WWVA and Capital Music Hall has grown sloppy. Concerts are announced too late; too much is brokered on WWVA and little music is broadcast there. The magic was allowed to languish...and the magic is where the PROFIT is...(other people call it "value added" rather than "magic" ;)).

Perhaps this is what can happen when a single entity owns many radio stations...or when a single entity owns multiple venues. Or worse, when that same entity owns BOTH. The result is little incentive to to serve a community..the owner instead serves a *market* using any resource that will do. It's a sad way to go through life...business and heritage/quality are NOT mutually exlusive. It just takes more work and more thinking to accomplish both. And few wish to do do.
 
Re: Radio-

> I'm not sure Wheeling is as bleak as you make it out to be.
> No way is it Braddock or McKeesport, for instance.

I'm not sure about that. I've had few reasons to go to Wheeling over the years. The casinos do not help. (Indeed, if you want a comparison, try Wheeling with Atlantic City.)

By the way, McKeesport isn't that bad ... if Wheeling "no way" is a McKeesport, it must be fairly impressive.

No, McKeesport isn't the city it was when I was in college there some decades ago. But it isn't on the same level as Braddock.

Homestead above the Waterfront might be a better comparison.

But your main point is made ... It's a dumb idea to close Capitol Music Hall.
 
A Few Facts Checked Here

> Got a tip from the Cleveland board about CC talk of closing
> down the legendary Capitol Music Hall in Wheeling.

Thanks for tracking that down. As I'd mentioned over there, former WWVA host George Kellas has talked about these rumors on his new program on WKKX/1600 and WEIR/1430...at least he did last time I was in the region. :D

A few corrections/amplifications/thoughts here:

* Though indeed it has been Clear Channel Entertainment running the facility the past few years, that company's been spun off of CC. The new independent company is known as "Live Nation". Presumably, some of the same (operational) people are aboard...but from now forward, it's not a direct CC concern. I'm curious how that affects WWVA/WOVK's presence in the building, and what they'll do if the CMH is sold off later.

* You can certainly lay whatever's been done to run the place at CC's feet over the past few years. But folks...we're talking Wheeling, here. The Ohio Valley is in absolutely AWFUL financial shape. It's incredibly hard to make money there... since there's not a lot of money to be made these days. The Wheeling/Steubenville region makes Youngstown/Warren look positively flush with economic activity.

If a new group wants to pool its resources and take CMH off of "Live Nation"/ex-CC Entertainment's hands, bless 'em...I hope they're successful as all heck. But it'll be an uphill road for them, and I bet they're gonna have to rally the locals to support them by attending shows and other means.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
Re: A Few Facts Checked Here

> > Got a tip from the Cleveland board about CC talk of
> closing
> > down the legendary Capitol Music Hall in Wheeling.
>
> Thanks for tracking that down. As I'd mentioned over there,
> former WWVA host George Kellas has talked about these rumors
> on his new program on WKKX/1600 and WEIR/1430...at least he
> did last time I was in the region. :D
>
> A few corrections/amplifications/thoughts here:
>
> * Though indeed it has been Clear Channel Entertainment
> running the facility the past few years, that company's been
> spun off of CC. The new independent company is known as
> "Live Nation". Presumably, some of the same (operational)
> people are aboard...but from now forward, it's not a direct
> CC concern. I'm curious how that affects WWVA/WOVK's
> presence in the building, and what they'll do if the CMH is
> sold off later.
>
> * You can certainly lay whatever's been done to run the
> place at CC's feet over the past few years. But
> folks...we're talking Wheeling, here. The Ohio Valley is in
> absolutely AWFUL financial shape. It's incredibly hard to
> make money there... since there's not a lot of money to be
> made these days. The Wheeling/Steubenville region makes
> Youngstown/Warren look positively flush with economic
> activity.
>
> If a new group wants to pool its resources and take CMH off
> of "Live Nation"/ex-CC Entertainment's hands, bless 'em...I
> hope they're successful as all heck. But it'll be an uphill
> road for them, and I bet they're gonna have to rally the
> locals to support them by attending shows and other means.
>
> -OA
>


Is it maybe something as simple as moving the shows to one of the casinos, maybe Mountaineer?<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
 
Re: A Few Facts Checked Here

>
> Is it maybe something as simple as moving the shows to one
> of the casinos, maybe Mountaineer?

Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of saving the Capitol Music Hall?

Not that you aren't correct that combining live shows with a gambling casino isn't a good idea. It's worked well in other places.
 
Re: A Few Facts Checked Here

> Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of saving the
> Capitol Music Hall?
>
> Not that you aren't correct that combining live shows with a
> gambling casino isn't a good idea. It's worked well in other
> places.

It has, but you're right. The CMH is an iconic presence in Wheeling. It's a brick in the community. It's not just another "hall", with its rich, long history with "Jamboree" and other such events.

That's the reason some folks who are apparently the only people with money left in that town are reportedly trying to figure out a way to save it. "Live Nation" is basically looking at the balance sheet.

But in the end, the other poster may also be right. If the CMH is not saved... hello Mountaineer. It just won't be the same, but the economic conditions may demand it.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
Re: A Few Facts Checked Here

> > Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of saving the
> > Capitol Music Hall?
> >
> > Not that you aren't correct that combining live shows with
> a
> > gambling casino isn't a good idea. It's worked well in
> other
> > places.
>
> It has, but you're right. The CMH is an iconic presence in
> Wheeling. It's a brick in the community. It's not just
> another "hall", with its rich, long history with "Jamboree"
> and other such events.
>
> That's the reason some folks who are apparently the only
> people with money left in that town are reportedly trying to
> figure out a way to save it. "Live Nation" is basically
> looking at the balance sheet.
>
> But in the end, the other poster may also be right. If the
> CMH is not saved... hello Mountaineer. It just won't be the
> same, but the economic conditions may demand it.
>
> -OA


In fact the Jamboree was held on Wheeling Island in the '60s, and was held
in other venues around town likeThe Virginia Theatre before that.
The Capitol Music Hall began hosting the Jamboree in 1969 after being purchased by Basic Communications (out of New York), then owner of WWVA.

I was watching The History Of Rock and Roll the other night and in one of the segments explaining the roots of rock and roll, there was a clip showing the front of The Virginia Theatre with WWVA's calls displayed and then it cut to
a still of Jamboree performers on stage inside. Strange to see that in The History of Rock and Roll.
>
 
Maybe so but-

I think the Capitol is worth saving and can flourish, and I'm not so sure it isn't doing so well now.

You mention the Jamboree used to be on Wheeling Island. Sure- but it wasn't at a gambling casino.

Having the Jamboree in a casino would not be a good thing. You want this to be a place where you can take kids. You want this to be an entertainment vehicle seperate from that sort of stuff.

Bad enough in Wheeling, WV they have to hold high school football games in the shadow of a gambling casino and a strip joint.

You have to consider what type of music this is- it's suited for more conservative type people.

I think a great part of the appeal of the Jamboree is it allows you to go to the Capitol Theatre and the sort of a traditional venue that it is.

You don't have that if you take it to a casino.
 
Capitol Can Survive but....

It will indeed take work. I've lived in the Valley for over 30 years (except '87-91 when I lived in Southern Illinois). I recall back in the 70's and 80's on Saturday nights the streets would be lined with tour busses all the way down Main street and all the way up Market street, it was hard to get a parking space in the Warf parking garage!. Sure there was no such thing as Branson Missouri and other tourist destinations but I'm sure thats the main cause, seniors are traveling elswhere these days.
It was very refreshing to take my wife to the Letterman concert at the Capitol this past November and again see tour busses parked all the way down Main and again up market. The venue was full for the show.

With Ogelbay, Wheeling Island and now the Highlands maybe many tour groups can be re-courted to come back to the friendly city! Sure you don't go after the huge acts for every Saturday night but second tier and groups familiar to the senior tour crowd could work.

And one final thought why not market to the Wheeling-Steubenville-Washington County areas? If the Wheeling Nailers can have a full house at Wesbanco Arena why can't the Capitol attract 1,500 people to a show from the valley and the balance from bus tours to fill the house?

Merry Christmas 'yenz guys!
 
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