Chopper Crash Investigation

[Teddyo]

Thought I would start another thread on this topic since we are now entering a new phase.

The Repulsive this morning (7/29) is saying that the NTSB may have a preliminary report or statement on the crash by Friday.

They also quoted an NTSB member on witness accounts thus far:

"While repeatedly stressing the preliminary nature of the witness testimony, NTSB board member Steven Chealander said witnesses indicated the Channel 3 helicopter was hovering in a set location at the time of the collision and that the Channel 15 helicopter moved into it."

I think that the video of the copters coming down and the resulting wreakage is corroborating this scenario. 3's copter was in pieces before it hit the ground and 15's appeared intact except for rotor damage.

IMHO I think it will shake out that the ABC15 pilot veered into 3's either because he was angling for a better shot or lost his bearings and the location of 3's copter. I don't think this investigation will be as long and convoluted as some.

I just hope that some positive changes come from this on how these TV stations use their helicopters -- new rules, pooling, whatever. And thank God that these copters didn't crash into the VA or the adjoining neighborhoods.

 

[formeraa]

Also, from the pilot conversations released so far, it seems clear that 15 lost track of exactly where 3 was. (Please note that I'm not placing blame here.)

 

[youn]

Also, from the pilot conversations released so far, it seems clear that 15 lost track of exactly where 3 was. (Please note that I'm not placing blame here.)

this is just too bizarre. no near warning hell raiser noises on helicopters?

 

[newschannel]

I still don't understand how one helicopter got on top of another without knowing it. (not placing blame here...)

 

[formeraa]

I'm not sure that the PHX area media (particularly at Channels 3 and 15) are ready for the NTSB's preliminary report. Recently, the NTSB's preliminary reports have included some measure of blame and responsibility. I just hope the media doesn't flip out on Friday or whenever the preliminary report is due out.

 

[737pilot]

... I just hope that some positive changes come from this on how these TV stations use their helicopters -- new rules, pooling, whatever. And thank God that these copters didn't crash into the VA or the adjoining neighborhoods.

While discussing this tragedy with colleagues, one played a couple video clips (15's and 5's). What were these pilots doing prior to the impact? Narrating the goings-on below for their audiences. 5's pilot was also giving directions to the camera ("zoom out, go north", etc.). Why is the pilot-in-command of a complex machine, performing a high-task-load maneuver (hover/very slow flight), in a high-threat environment (six aircraft operating within ridiculously close proximity), diverting his/her attention from rule #1? I'm sure the popular answer will be "their jobs."

Yes, four people lost their lives that day while covering some idiot's feeble attempt to flee the long arm of the law. The tragedy would not have happened last Friday afternoon if it hadn't have been for that knucklehead's breath-taking chase; however, with the aircraft operated the way they currently are, it would have happened on another day. As long as ratings and the dollar continue to rule policy and procedure, this will happen again.

I freely admit, I am no media expert - only an interested bystander. However, I've been in aviation long enough to recognize that some basic principles of threat and error management are woefully absent in aerial newsgathering here in the valley. Using a 2-crew compliment for a 3-crew mission? Madness, er, criminal ... In my opinion, station management is just as culpable in this travesty as the wayward vehicle "borrower".

The system is broken. For everybody's sake, I hope it gets fixed.

 

[4dude]

I hope things turn out for the better!

 

[Teddyo]

I freely admit, I am no media expert - only an interested bystander. However, I've been in aviation long enough to recognize that some basic principles of threat and error management are woefully absent in aerial newsgathering here in the valley. Using a 2-crew compliment for a 3-crew mission? Madness, er, criminal ... In my opinion, station management is just as culpable in this travesty as the wayward vehicle "borrower".

The system is broken. For everybody's sake, I hope it gets fixed.

737pilot, I for one thank you for your post. It's always good to hear observations from pilots and other people in aviation on this issue.

I also think that aerial newsgathering activities are starting to border on criminal because of the callous disregard for aviation and public safety by these stations' management. No doubt to make the bottom line look better. I hope the NTSB rips them.

That's why I find it particularly galling to see KNXV and 3TV trying to makeover these guys into public service heroes. No doubt there have been a few cases where aerial newsgathering has perhaps aided the police or citizens, but I doubt there has ever been a situation where the police anywhere have said, "Wow, thank goodness we had 5 news helicopters, in addition to ours, circling over and dodging each other to help us wrap up this case!"

I have heard that 12 does not allow their helicopter pilot to do reporting or photog duties? Can anyone confirm that?

 

[newschannel]

The system may need some repairs, but the fact is these people are covering news for us, in spite of the dangers they face. No, they are not "criminal", they are doing their jobs.

 

[737pilot]

The system may need some repairs, but the fact is these people are covering news for us, in spite of the dangers they face. No, they are not "criminal", they are doing their jobs.

newschannel, my apologies for any implication that the aircrews are criminal, for it was the system to which I was referring. I agree they work extremely hard given the lack of systemic resources afforded them. I was condemning the system. They are often put in a scenario where they are "in the red", with nobody to keep track of the big picture to guide them back out of it. (An excellent diagram of my point is illustrated in the NASA report on threat and error management. I don't have the link handy, but if you're interested, I will find it and send it.)

If your intent is to defend the crews, I offer my apologies for any ambiguity in my original post.

If your intent is to defend the system, however, then I would respectfully request you better educate yourself on human factors in aviation. The system was exemplified last week - I believe "need[ing] some repairs" is a gross understatement.

 

[newschannel]

The system may need some repairs, but the fact is these people are covering news for us, in spite of the dangers they face. No, they are not "criminal", they are doing their jobs.

newschannel, my apologies for any implication that the aircrews are criminal, for it was the system to which I was referring. I agree they work extremely hard given the lack of systemic resources afforded them. I was condemning the system. They are often put in a scenario where they are "in the red", with nobody to keep track of the big picture to guide them back out of it. (An excellent diagram of my point is illustrated in the NASA report on threat and error management. I don't have the link handy, but if you're interested, I will find it and send it.)

If your intent is to defend the crews, I offer my apologies for any ambiguity in my original post.

If your intent is to defend the system, however, then I would respectfully request you better educate yourself on human factors in aviation. The system was exemplified last week - I believe "need[ing] some repairs" is a gross understatement.

My intent is to defend the *crews*, not the *system*.

 

[Teddyo]

Analysis of NTSB preliminary report by expert Bill Waldock of Embry Riddle. Video clip from 12.

http://www.azcentral.com/phpAPP/mul...HTTP_REFERER=http://www.azcentral.com/12news/