Chopper Crash -- Now it Turns Ugly!

[Teddyo]

We've all figured this was going to happen sooner or later.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/08/01/20080801CrashSuit.html

Now that the memorial service is over, the war has begun. The lawyers will now take aim at ABC 15. This from the 15 year-old son of their own employee, photog Krolak, who was killed in the crash. I imagine lawsuits from the KTVK surviving families will quickly follow.

Good luck KNXV. The vultures are circling!

 

[dhett]

Why do I get the sick sense that the kid is being used here in someone else's agenda?

 

[landtuna]

And when this event happened there was some discussion that the person on the ground being chased by the police would be charged with four murders/manslaughter due to the chopper collision. What ever happened to that part of the story?

The U.S. Helicopters part of the suit seems to be just the ambulance chasers going after the deep pockets.

Maybe the outcome of this suit will cause TV stations to reconsider their use of choppers.

 

[formeraa]

And when this event happened there was some discussion that the person on the ground being chased by the police would be charged with four murders/manslaughter due to the chopper collision. What ever happened to that part of the story?

I thought that claim was just Lin Sue and Fay "emoting" that afternoon. One of them actually said, "Do you think that he [the criminal] KNOWS that he just caused the deaths of four people? I believe that Phoenix Mayor KissUp also commented on the possibility of charges.

Fortunately, it appears that calmer, more objective heads prevailed here. The criminal did not "cause" the death of the journalists. They, unfortunately, were just doing their jobs and a tragic mistake occurred.

 

[3fan4eva]

I was hoping that this wasnt gonna turn ugly......i just hate it when pointing fingers and money damages are talked about involving a tragic accident like this. And this lawsuit really trashes Craig Smith. The accident coulda definatley been prevented but I dont think that Craig was wrecklessly flying Chopper 15. I belive that 15 did collide with 3 but not due to neglegence on any of the pilots or crews fault.....I just hope that all the parties involved settle this without this gettin even more messy.

 

[landtuna]

I belive that 15 did collide with 3 but not due to neglegence on any of the pilots or crews fault.

Unless the collision was caused by something like mechanical failure this is the very definition of negligence. The FAA will undoubtedly sort it out. When four people die like this there absolutely will be responsibility assigned. It is just very fortunate both aircraft fell into a vacant park instead of a busy downtown sidewalk.

 

[double07]

A second suit filed..


http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=37f922c3-82aa-4c28-babe-dc0fda5bf8f8

 

[Teddyo]

A second suit filed..


http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=37f922c3-82aa-4c28-babe-dc0fda5bf8f8

Now this one really makes no sense. U.S. Helicopters and KTVK are the targets? I don't know of any possible scenarios from either the preliminary report or witness accounts that lay the blame on 3's helicopter. Almost everything points to 15's chopper moving into it. These Krolak kids are a piece of work. You know, there were other families involved too.

It's my understanding that 3 now has a brand new chopper that they own, and 15 is still using an older chopper that they lease. Is this telling us how the respective insurance companies already came down on this issue from their investigation ?

 

[landtuna]

It's my understanding that 3 now has a brand new chopper that they own, and 15 is still using an older chopper that they lease. Is this telling us how the respective insurance companies already came down on this issue from their investigation ?

No. The insurance companies involved only pay out for the losses for which they insure. It doesn't matter, initially, who is at fault. If later it is determined that one party was responsible for the collision the insurance company may, at its option, sue the other insurance company to recover its losses.

 

[VU@zero]

It was a nice memorial, then to have a lawsuit filed shortly afterwards is truly tasteless, not to mention sad... Hope the possible money won makes the family happy.... It was an accident......... AN ACCIDENT... Both parties had every intention on going home after this PD chase, but it takes 2 Copters to crash... Spacing was the responsibility of BOTH "Experienced" pilots, and their co-pilots... If one Pilot was " responsible" for this crash, then the other Pilot is equally responsible for NOT avoiding this accident... In the end... It's just a sad tragic accident, which no amount of money can erase.

 

[michael hagerty]

It was a nice memorial, then to have a lawsuit filed shortly afterwards is truly tasteless, not to mention sad... Hope the possible money won makes the family happy.... It was an accident......... AN ACCIDENT... Both parties had every intention on going home after this PD chase, but it takes 2 Copters to crash... Spacing was the responsibility of BOTH "Experienced" pilots, and their co-pilots... If one Pilot was " responsible" for this crash, then the other Pilot is equally responsible for NOT avoiding this accident... In the end... It's just a sad tragic accident, which no amount of money can erase.

I knew, liked, worked with and flew with three of the four men killed that day...Rick Krolak, Jim Cox and Scott Bowerbank. With no final FAA report yet in place, I'm not going to speculate as to blame. But it is important to remember this, and as someone who spent a lot of hours in NewsChopper 3 in the 80s and 90s, I feel I can point it out.

There is only a small area of the floor of that helicopter (near the nose) that you could see through. If another chopper is underneath you...but not far enough forward...you don't know...unless they tell you by radio...and only if what they tell you is accurate. They are literally in your blind spot.

If they move, you have no way of knowing it unless they tell you (accurately) by radio where they are and where they're going. Avoidance without that information is impossible, and thus you cannot be responsible for the outcome.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[landtuna]

Hope the possible money won makes the family happy.... It was an accident......... AN ACCIDENT... Both parties had every intention on going home after this PD chase, but it takes 2 Copters to crash... Spacing was the responsibility of BOTH "Experienced" pilots, and their co-pilots... If one Pilot was " responsible" for this crash, then the other Pilot is equally responsible for NOT avoiding this accident... In the end... It's just a sad tragic accident, which no amount of money can erase.

Your argument makes logical sense VU but, unfortunately, it is not true in the eyes of the justice system.

Tort law requires that when one party is injured by another then the injured party (even if both are injured) is entitled to recompense. Money is usually used to offset any losses even though money cannot obviously replace a living person. It does provide for the families left without a wage earner, medical care, etc., though which is the basic purpose. This is true in aviation as it is in motor vehicles.

There is no "requirement" for one operator to avoid an accident, even if said operator is aware of impending collision. The person creating the danger is usually the one held responsible for its outcome except in the most unusual circumstances. In this case one chopper flew into the other. It doesn't matter to the liability whether it was by accident (likely) or intentional (unlikely).

The FAA will ultimately determine which pilot was responsible for the collision (assuming it was not a mechanical issue or due to faulty directions from a ground director).

 

[VU@zero]

Thanks everyone for your unique insight. The timing of the lawsuit bothered me the most since it came after the memorial.