CHR/POP PANEL CHANGES

[CHRles]

I know I'm beating a deadhorse but I still believe KTFM is full fledge Rhythmic. ;D
Not that anything is wrong with that, KTFM sounds great.. I just don't think they are CHR/Mainstream.

http://www.yes.com/#KTFM?chart

Yeah, for me, if you're not even playing F***In Perfect by Pink (which just hit #1), you're Rhythmic, any way you look at it - and for KTFM, they have TWO other mainstream CHRs their market, so of course they're not going to be mainstream (there's not enough room...)

Now 92.3/New York is also Rhythmic any way you look at it IMO...

www.yes.com/#WXRK?chart

And WDZH/Detroit - www.yes.com/#WDZH?chart

And, of course, KAMP... www.yes.com/#KAMP?chart

And lol that all three of those are owned by CBS

They seem like they're opting to only play the rhythmic material on the CHR chart. The CHR and Rhythmic CHR charts are so similar currently, that I think it may be easy to play a lot of rhythmic stuff and still be a CHR.

If I were WXRK, I would throw in a few pop songs (such as "Perfect"). Especially since WKTU is on the CHR panel now and they are definitely rhythmic "hot AC" or something. They have two CC stations after them...

Ironically KTU is playing Pink's "Perfect", and so are a multitude of stations on the Rhythmic panel
BTW, I still don't see KTU listed on the CHR/Pop panel.

 

[atlantaboy]

If I were WXRK, I would throw in a few pop songs (such as "Perfect"). Especially since WKTU is on the CHR panel now and they are definitely rhythmic "hot AC" or something. They have two CC stations after them...

Yeah, I was actually wondering if Clear Channel wanted KTU on the pop panel in order to drive WXRK out of the market (or at least over to the Rhythmic column) - I can't imagine New York City is gonna support three CHR/pop stations

 

[danikayser84]

Though, WKKF is still a pretty good mainstream CHR (they sounded Hot AC for a while and then Rhythmic CHR for a while but now they're pretty much in the middle)... maybe I thought they were Rhythmic because I usually listened at nights or on weekends (they play some 90s on the weekends, I think)

And IMO, WYJB and WRVE seem to be swapping places gradually, format-wise... (is WRVE still Hot AC or is it AC now? I always get my panels confused... especially with CBS and CC stations misreporting)

 

[atlantaboy]

If I were WXRK, I would throw in a few pop songs (such as "Perfect"). Especially since WKTU is on the CHR panel now and they are definitely rhythmic "hot AC" or something. They have two CC stations after them...

I think WXRK tried that briefly (they added Neon Trees for a month or so, and played Raise Your Glass when it was big), but their ratings went down cause they couldn't compete against Z100 - they're clearly a Rhythmic station now (and ratings have gone up a bit as a result), it's just a question of whether CBS is willing to "admit" it, cause then they'd have to move the Amp stations in L. A. and Detroit back to the Rhythmic column too - I'm guessing there's a lot of politics involved, cause KAMP is very successful and probably doesn't want to risk changing anything (including its classification)

 

[XCountry285]

Now FM in NYC got complaints because a listener wanted to hear All Time Low and they made fun of them.

 

[Slinky]

I think WXRK tried that briefly (they added Neon Trees for a month or so, and played Raise Your Glass when it was big), but their ratings went down cause they couldn't compete against Z100 - they're clearly a Rhythmic station now (and ratings have gone up a bit as a result), it's just a question of whether CBS is willing to "admit" it, cause then they'd have to move the Amp stations in L. A. and Detroit back to the Rhythmic column too - I'm guessing there's a lot of politics involved, cause KAMP is very successful and probably doesn't want to risk changing anything (including its classification)

I think you're overestimating the amount of "politics" in Mediabase panel changes.

On the one hand, CBS very much cares about presenting their stations as more adult and less urban than they actually are. That's why CBS will always refer to WPGC as a rhythmic, WXRK as a CHR, and WWMX as a Hot AC (rather than urban, rhythmic, and CHR, respectively).

However, there's no rule that Mediabase has to follow those classifications. If Mediabase feels strongly that a station belongs on a particular panel, they can move them. The "Fresh" ACs in DC and Detroit both report as Hot AC's, for instance.

 

[Slinky]

I should add that for CHR, it gets really complicated, since in cases like Now and Amp, yeah they're just about all rhythmic, but they only differ from some of the true mainstream CHRs by a song or two.

A massive overhaul would be necessary, and it all goes down the drain if all the Nows and Amps decide they want to add Adele or the next Neon Trees. Suddenly you've got rock songs charting at Rhythmic and there's a movement to kick those stations off the Rhythmic panel.

There may be some misclassified stations but I can't really blame Mediabase for being conservative with their panel changes. You don't want a mess where stations are bouncing back and forth between panels every few months. I think Mediabase values consistency over complete and total format accuracy.

 

[carolinaradio]

I should add that for CHR, it gets really complicated, since in cases like Now and Amp, yeah they're just about all rhythmic, but they only differ from some of the true mainstream CHRs by a song or two.

Agree. There are not many songs on the top 40 chart currently that aren't rhythmic of some sort. Like I said in the other thread, why won't CBS just play these so these stations will be true CHR's? They can still lean rhythmic.

 

[atlantaboy]

I should add that for CHR, it gets really complicated, since in cases like Now and Amp, yeah they're just about all rhythmic, but they only differ from some of the true mainstream CHRs by a song or two.

Agree. There are not many songs on the top 40 chart currently that aren't rhythmic of some sort. Like I said in the other thread, why won't CBS just play these so these stations will be true CHR's?

Because there are already true CHRs in those markets - CBS is programming them as Rhythmics, not CHRs

It's not just a matter of leaving a few pop or pop/rock songs out...

The #1 song at Now 92.3 is "Down On Me" by Jeremih, which is #1 on the Rhythmic chart, and only #17 on the pop chart
The #10 song at Now 92.3 is "The Show Goes On" by Lupe Fiasco, which is #6 on the Rhythmic chart, and only #34 on the pop chart

At KAMP, Down On Me is #2 (#1 Rhythmic, #17 Pop), and Moment 4 Life by Nicki Minaj is #4 (#2 Rhythmic, #23 Pop)

At Amp Detroit, I Need A Doctor by Dr. Dre is #2 (#14 Rhythmic, #26 Pop), and The Show Goes On by Lupe Fiasco is #7 (#6 Rhythmic, #34 Pop)

So it's not just a matter of CBS handpicking Rhythmic-leaning songs off the pop chart - CBS is determining spin rotations based on Rhythmic callout rather than Pop callout

 

[butlerguy03]

Now FM in NYC got complaints because a listener wanted to hear All Time Low and they made fun of them.

Pop-Punk is a sleeping giant in the pop world. They don't quite fit at Alternative and on the rhythmic-leaning CHR. It's going to take a programmer in a major market to take a chance on several of these singles before it finally breaks into mainstream CHR, HAC. Bands like Paramore and Fall Out Boy have made a lot of progress, but others like All Time Low, Cartel, and Runner Runner fit great next to 3OH!3 and Cobra Starship, which is sort of a Pop-Punk/Dance-Rock hybrid. The Ready Set is considered pop-punk/dance-rock too.

 

[carolinaradio]

I should add that for CHR, it gets really complicated, since in cases like Now and Amp, yeah they're just about all rhythmic, but they only differ from some of the true mainstream CHRs by a song or two.

Agree. There are not many songs on the top 40 chart currently that aren't rhythmic of some sort. Like I said in the other thread, why won't CBS just play these so these stations will be true CHR's?

Because there are already true CHRs in those markets - CBS is programming them as Rhythmics, not CHRs

It's not just a matter of leaving a few pop or pop/rock songs out...

The #1 song at Now 92.3 is "Down On Me" by Jeremih, which is #1 on the Rhythmic chart, and only #17 on the pop chart
The #10 song at Now 92.3 is "The Show Goes On" by Lupe Fiasco, which is #6 on the Rhythmic chart, and only #34 on the pop chart

At KAMP, Down On Me is #2 (#1 Rhythmic, #17 Pop), and Moment 4 Life by Nicki Minaj is #4 (#2 Rhythmic, #23 Pop)

At Amp Detroit, I Need A Doctor by Dr. Dre is #2 (#14 Rhythmic, #26 Pop), and The Show Goes On by Lupe Fiasco is #7 (#6 Rhythmic, #34 Pop)

So it's not just a matter of CBS handpicking Rhythmic-leaning songs off the pop chart - CBS is determining spin rotations based on Rhythmic callout rather than Pop callout

One reason they may stay on CHR is for more "wiggle room." It's a little easier to be CHR and play mostly rhythmic stuff and toss in a Taylor Swift song if you wish than to be a rhythmic CHR and play Taylor Swift if she has a huge pop hit, if that makes any sense. These stations could decide to change their direction, who knows, it's done. I wonder if THEY have a long term focus of what they want?

B96.3 in Chicago considers themselves Rhythmic CHR, but they are no different than 92.3, 98.7, or 97.1. They even play "Use Somebody"....

 

[atlantaboy]

I should add that for CHR, it gets really complicated, since in cases like Now and Amp, yeah they're just about all rhythmic, but they only differ from some of the true mainstream CHRs by a song or two.

Agree. There are not many songs on the top 40 chart currently that aren't rhythmic of some sort. Like I said in the other thread, why won't CBS just play these so these stations will be true CHR's?

Because there are already true CHRs in those markets - CBS is programming them as Rhythmics, not CHRs

It's not just a matter of leaving a few pop or pop/rock songs out...

The #1 song at Now 92.3 is "Down On Me" by Jeremih, which is #1 on the Rhythmic chart, and only #17 on the pop chart
The #10 song at Now 92.3 is "The Show Goes On" by Lupe Fiasco, which is #6 on the Rhythmic chart, and only #34 on the pop chart

At KAMP, Down On Me is #2 (#1 Rhythmic, #17 Pop), and Moment 4 Life by Nicki Minaj is #4 (#2 Rhythmic, #23 Pop)

At Amp Detroit, I Need A Doctor by Dr. Dre is #2 (#14 Rhythmic, #26 Pop), and The Show Goes On by Lupe Fiasco is #7 (#6 Rhythmic, #34 Pop)

So it's not just a matter of CBS handpicking Rhythmic-leaning songs off the pop chart - CBS is determining spin rotations based on Rhythmic callout rather than Pop callout

One reason they may stay on CHR is for more "wiggle room." It's a little easier to be CHR and play mostly rhythmic stuff and toss in a Taylor Swift song if you wish than to be a rhythmic CHR and play Taylor Swift if she has a huge pop hit, if that makes any sense. These stations could decide to change their direction, who knows, it's done. I wonder if THEY have a long term focus of what they want?

I mean, I guess that makes sense then to hold off on moving them...but if months go by, and they're still programming off the Rhythmic chart and refusing to play anything on the pop chart without a dance beat, I think Mediabase really needs to move them (for the pop chart to be valid)

My problem with leaving them on the pop panel is that ideally, for advertising/billing purposes, every Rhythmic station in the country would love to be considered "CHR/Pop", so by letting these CBS stations stay, Mediabase is giving the nod to tons of other Rhythmic stations that they can program off the Rhythmic chart and still report to the pop panel - the result is going to be exactly what you posted before (not sure if it was this thread of another one) - the pop chart, especially the Top 20, is going to become artificially more and more rhythmic, leaving Rhythmic stations able to look at the pop charts and then say "We're only skipping one or two songs, so we're still pop"

 

[carolinaradio]

I mean, I guess that makes sense then to hold off on moving them...but if months go by, and they're still programming off the Rhythmic chart and refusing to play anything on the pop chart without a dance beat, I think Mediabase really needs to move them (for the pop chart to be valid)

My problem with leaving them on the pop panel is that ideally, for advertising/billing purposes, every Rhythmic station in the country would love to be considered "CHR/Pop", so by letting these CBS stations stay, Mediabase is giving the nod to tons of other Rhythmic stations that they can program off the Rhythmic chart and still report to the pop panel - the result is going to be exactly what you posted before (not sure if it was this thread of another one) - the pop chart, especially the Top 20, is going to become artificially more and more rhythmic, leaving Rhythmic stations able to look at the pop charts and then say "We're only skipping one or two songs, so we're still pop"

Exactly, I agree 100%. I know it's a different format that I keep bringing up, but use AC for example - some songs such as "DJ Got Us Fallin In Love" and "Born This Way" have crossed over - very few stations are playing those, and I bet the ones that are are Hot AC stations that report as AC (WCFS, WWFS).... Those aren't mainstream AC songs.

Since these stations may still be establishing themselves up against established, heritage stations, they may take a few years to adjust. If they're still rhythmic by the end of the year, though, they should move DEFINITELY. Didn't KAMP and WXRK start out playing some non-rhythmic stuff? I think WXRK moved more rhythmic last year.

 

[saradio1]

The changes were already implemented last week:

Party 93.1 Las Vegas (Neon Trees is Top 20)
97.7 Party San Antonio (Neon Trees, Daughtry, and Kings of Leon are on the playlist so its not strictly Rhythmic Pop)Hot 101.9 Santa Rosa

I'm surprised a couple of stations from the Hot A/C panel weren't moved. Specifically WBZZ Star 100.7 Pittsburgh (where Wiz Khalifa is Top 10) and 95.1 WAYV Atlantic City.

Party 97.7 San Antonio has several Pop Remixes in the playlist that include artist from Taylor Swift to Far East Movement.

Also, Party won't be strictly Rhythmic due to their sister station The Beat.

 

[atlantaboy]

I know this kind of a change in subject, but this is what makes me suspicious that the panel process is political...

Cox Radio has THREE AC stations reporting to the Hot AC panel (Richmond, San Antonio, and Tulsa) - there is no possible way anyone could label these stations as Hot AC (the playlists on AllAccess have about 12 songs on them, most of which are two years old), but obviously Cox wants them on the HAC panel

Mediabase just moved KFYV (independently owned) from Hot AC to CHR, but didn't touch the CBS stations in Baltimore and Pittsburgh

And then the three CBS-owned Rhythmics on the CHR panel...I just can't believe that there's nothing political involved in this