CHRISTMAS MUSIC??????

[Stuart]

I am not trying to be a "Scrooge" here, nor am I trying to offend anyone...

BUT, if my "favorite" radio station played Christmas Music for 2 (or more months), I would never listen to them again. I am not against Christmas Music inserted in the play-list. I do not understand why stations would play all Christmas Music for 2 or 3 months straight. There are many religions which do not celebrate Christmas. Are stations willing to lose these listeners? I am sure many return after the holidays, or maybe they do not lose that many listeners. The ones which leave the station, may find another station they like better and never come back! This sounds very counter-productive!

This seems to be a little perplexing! ???

Thanks,
Stuart
Chapel Hill, North Carolina

 

[12 In a Row]

The vast majority of the U.S.A. population celebrates Christmas and without a doubt the format works.

 

[firepoint525]

Many of the songs are secular, and don't even mention "Christmas" at all, like "Winter Wonderland" and "Sleigh Ride."

I agree with you, two months of wall-to-wall Christmas (or "holiday") music is simply too much!

 

[Roger That]

Stuart: Almost 600 posts in this forum and the concept of Christmas music on radio is new to you?

 

[davideduardo]

BUT, if my "favorite" radio station played Christmas Music for 2 (or more months), I would never listen to them again. I am not against Christmas Music inserted in the play-list. I do not understand why stations would play all Christmas Music for 2 or 3 months straight. There are many religions which do not celebrate Christmas. Are stations willing to lose these listeners? I am sure many return after the holidays, or maybe they do not lose that many listeners. The ones which leave the station, may find another station they like better and never come back! This sounds very counter-productive!

The average Christmas music AC station increases listening by 50% or more in the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas day, and the "halo effect" into January is considerable. There is no downside, and the upside is enormous.

 

[Stuart]

Stuart: Almost 600 posts in this forum and the concept of Christmas music on radio is new to you?

I am not in the radio profession, studying radio has always been a hobby of mine. To be honest with you, I never had "one of my favorite stations" switch to Christmas Music. I have been reading about the stations changing, and I am just curious about the positive and negative reactions to changing formats for a holiday that may be two or three months away (depending on the change date).

Thanks,
Stuart

 

[firepoint525]

BUT, if my "favorite" radio station played Christmas Music for 2 (or more months), I would never listen to them again. I am not against Christmas Music inserted in the play-list. I do not understand why stations would play all Christmas Music for 2 or 3 months straight. There are many religions which do not celebrate Christmas. Are stations willing to lose these listeners? I am sure many return after the holidays, or maybe they do not lose that many listeners. The ones which leave the station, may find another station they like better and never come back! This sounds very counter-productive!

The average Christmas music AC station increases listening by 50% or more in the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas day, and the "halo effect" into January is considerable. There is no downside, and the upside is enormous.

Well, great, then let them go all-Christmas, all year! Can't get too much of a good thing, right?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Well, great, then let them go all-Christmas, all year! Can't get too much of a good thing, right?

Now, now. Christmas comes but once a year. What you really mean is the "All Holiday, All the Time" format. Dec. 26th you become "All New Years", Jan. 2nd you become "All Presidents / MLK Day", Jan. 20-something you become "All Valentines Day" - etc.

Oops. I may have hit on Citadel's plan for rescuing their network division. Sorry!

 

[Roger That]

Stuart: Almost 600 posts in this forum and the concept of Christmas music on radio is new to you?

I am not in the radio profession, studying radio has always been a hobby of mine. To be honest with you, I never had "one of my favorite stations" switch to Christmas Music. I have been reading about the stations changing, and I am just curious about the positive and negative reactions to changing formats for a holiday that may be two or three months away (depending on the change date).

Thanks,
Stuart

Gotcha. This has been a pretty common occurrence for the past few years, with it getting earlier and earlier. It used to be a race to be the first in on the day after Thanksgiving. Then it got earlier and earlier, with the assumption that people actually cared who was "first in" on Christmas music.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The average Christmas music AC station increases listening by 50% or more in the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas day, and the "halo effect" into January is considerable. There is no downside, and the upside is enormous.

Could you please reveal your source for that statement? That's very broad, and goes well beyond what I've seen in the markets that I'm familiar with. Is there a bump for many ACs that go Christmas? Yes. Is it an increase of 50%? Rarely, at least in my experience.

 

[LowPayDJ]

Well, I'm a Rocker, and unless Slipknot, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Alice in Chains,..etc... has Christmas songs, I don't want to hear them. If I have to hear Bruce sing Santa Clause is coming to town, I think I'll PUKE

 

[postmaster]

At some point too much to soon will happen and it will blow up in our face. But keep in mind not all listen all day and night. People listen in chunks and tune out before it becomes too much. Why not keep your format but feature Xmas blocks or segments thereby making the Xmas music you do play more special. Make Xmas music appointments with your listeners. Ha...who am I kidding, go wall to wall right after Halloween, that'll teach em!

 

[davideduardo]

The average Christmas music AC station increases listening by 50% or more in the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas day, and the "halo effect" into January is considerable. There is no downside, and the upside is enormous.

Could you please reveal your source for that statement? That's very broad, and goes well beyond what I've seen in the markets that I'm familiar with. Is there a bump for many ACs that go Christmas? Yes. Is it an increase of 50%? Rarely, at least in my experience.

Arbitron, either PPM data for the actual days of Christmas music programming or the diary, using custom week spans in Maximi$er.

I think you have been looking at the book level, not to the specific dates.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The average Christmas music AC station increases listening by 50% or more in the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas day, and the "halo effect" into January is considerable. There is no downside, and the upside is enormous.

Could you please reveal your source for that statement? That's very broad, and goes well beyond what I've seen in the markets that I'm familiar with. Is there a bump for many ACs that go Christmas? Yes. Is it an increase of 50%? Rarely, at least in my experience.

Arbitron, either PPM data for the actual days of Christmas music programming or the diary, using custom week spans in Maximi$er.

I think you have been looking at the book level, not to the specific dates.

What market are you referring to? Or are you saying this is true nationwide?

Trust me, we slice & dice numbers witht he best of them out here in the hinterlands, and I've never seen the kind of numbers you're quoting.

 

[davideduardo]

Trust me, we slice & dice numbers witht he best of them out here in the hinterlands, and I've never seen the kind of numbers you're quoting.

Nationwide. Of course, the only data with enough sample to really look at reliably is in the PPM markets (since this requires use of discreet weeks, the diary sample is way too small for reliability, but it shows the same tendencies anyway).

An example would be KOST in LA, which was nicely analyzed in the press. The weeks prior to Christmas, averaging about a 3.9, while the weeks of Christmas programming it averaged about a 7.9. That is more like double, so if anything I understated the data, since most markets still only have the diary data to go on, and it is not rich enough to form real conclusions.

Similar things were seen last season in NY, Chicago, dallas, Houston, etc. I personally saw it back to the first 2003 Christmas numbers in Philly's PPM and the 2005 Christmas season in Houston, and every season since then.

 

[SirRoxalot]

So, PPM, which measures "hearing", not "listening" is the ONLY reliable data? That's an interesting viewpoint for the markets outside the top 25, and advertisers who aren't sold on PPM. And if the diary sample is "way too small", what about the people who think that the PPM sample is way too small?

Some of the PPM results just don't seem reliable. Of course, you'll argue that, but there are a lot of folks who just aren't sold on PPM.

 

[davideduardo]

So, PPM, which measures "hearing", not "listening" is the ONLY reliable data? That's an interesting viewpoint for the markets outside the top 25, and advertisers who aren't sold on PPM. And if the diary sample is "way too small", what about the people who think that the PPM sample is way too small?

Jeeze.

Advertisers are the intended target of ratings. Ratings are a metric by and through which different radio stations can be evaluated. Advertisers asked for a measurement of exposure as opposed to one where listenening is recorded based on the memory abilities of each listener.

The diary sample is so small, it takes three months (acutally 84 days) to get a big enough sample to do a report. With the PPM, the hourly sample, the daily sample, the weekly sample, the monthly sample and the annual sample all have the same accuracy, as the PPM uses a panel and not a weekly, changing (and often dreadfully unbalanced) sample. A panel is, when properly constructed, a perfect mirror in miniature of the total measured universe on every stratification variable from age and gender down to income levels, language preference, ethnicity, etc.

The daily sample in a PPM market is, on average, greater than the sample over 4 to 5 weeks of the diary, and requres minimal weighting, again, due to being a panel and a "perfect sample" at all times. The diary when picked apart, can have weeks with no 18-34 men, for example. So looking at the diary over a 4 to 5 week Christmas music period is very, very, very unreliable.

Some of the PPM results just don't seem reliable. Of course, you'll argue that, but there are a lot of folks who just aren't sold on PPM.

While Arbitron has a way to go to get MRC accreditation, and one major broadcaster is withholding subscribing in non-accredited markets, the meter system is vastly superior to the diary in immediacy, granularity and sample. Nobody disputes the system, which has been used for decades in TV; there is dispute of the implementation but at the very specific levels of recruiting, for example (phone sample or address based recruiting being compated).

 

[ddsparxx]

Well, I'm a Rocker, and unless Slipknot, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Alice in Chains,..etc... has Christmas songs, I don't want to hear them. If I have to hear Bruce sing Santa Clause is coming to town, I think I'll PUKE

I agree, I like Bruce's music but I hate his "Santa Claus is Coming to Town", it's too long and irritating.

Once these stations start playing Christmas music, I plug in my mp3 player.

 

[firepoint525]

Well, I'm a Rocker, and unless Slipknot, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Alice in Chains,..etc... has Christmas songs, I don't want to hear them. If I have to hear Bruce sing Santa Clause is coming to town, I think I'll PUKE

I agree, I like Bruce's music but I hate his "Santa Claus is Coming to Town", it's too long and irritating.

Ouch, he actually sang that when he was here in Nashville a couple of weeks ago, and, other than omitting the dialogue at the beginning, he sang it nearly identical to the 1975 recording. (He supposedly also sang it at Bonnaroo this past summer! )

The problem with "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" is that it has not been sung correctly since the Jackson 5 version came out nearly 40 years ago.

 

[Prais]

Correctly? WHO is to say what is "correctly???"

Firepoint, I know you like to argue, but don't you realize that many different people interpret many different songs in many dfferent ways? THAT is what keeps ascrap and bmi "counting" and able to have lavish office buildings, and pays composers.

This song was written by J. Fred Coots and and Haven Gillespie, and was first sung on Eddie Cantor's radio show in November 1934. Over 400,000 copies sold by Christmas, that year.

The earliest known recorded version of the song was performed by George Happle and the Hotel Taft Orchestra (featuring Sonny Schuyler on vocals) in 1934. It was mostly an instrumental except for a 35-second vocal by Schuyler. The version shown in the Variety charts of December 1934 was Harry Reser featuring Tom Stacks on vocal. The song was a sheet music hit, reaching #1. The song was also recorded on September 26, 1935, by Tommy Dorsey & His Orchestra.

The song has been covered by a long list of recording artists. Please note Christmas in the Charts (1920 - 2004) by Joel Whitburn, noting 70+ artists interpreting this piece of music. Great book!!