Christmas Repetition

[dmer]

It's time for my yearly complaint about repetition on our two Christmas stations. No one seems to listen at the stations because I swear it gets worse every year. I mean if you are going to be playing Holiday music 24/7, the least they could do is add to the 10 songs they play over and over again. It's ashame, but I get sick of hearing "Holly Jolly Christmas" by about December 3 already. And I like that song. I was listening to Cool 92 this weekend and within a 6 hour period I heard Bruce Springsteen 3 times, the same exact song! Many of the artists they play, like Springsteen, Burl Ives, the Carpenters, etc., have numerous Christmas songs, sometimes whole albums of Holiday Music, and Cool and Magic insist on playing just one or two from each. When is the last time you heard "Santa Clause is Coming to Town" by Burl Ives on the radio?

And this leads me to my second gripe. With the two all Holiday stations, most of the other stations do not play any Christmas music at all. It's all or nothing. There are many of us that like to be eased into the Christmas season with a few songs to start and gradually increasing until Christmas day. I used to love the anticipation, knowing as I hear more Christmas songs on the radio, Christmas was getting closer.

And then they cut you off 12/26, almost like ripping a band aide off. I remember going to NJ once to visit family the day after Christmas, and the former Sunny 104.5 actually played Christmas music that night. I was floored. They let you off easily and stopped by New Years.

I know I may be preaching to the choir here, but as a radio listener, I don't know why the radioheads do not listen. They listen to their consultants, who must tell them that "Holly Jolly Christmas" 15 times a day is what people want to hear. The listeners may complain and the big companies basically say, "Hey we know what you really want." I'm done whining now. Have a Merry Christmas.

 

[Seltzer]

Lots of research has been done on Christmas music like any other music. Stations that play the hits win. That includes Christmas.

There's only about 40 Christmas songs that really matter. Those are the ones that get played often. You then fill in with some of the other
songs/versions to fill out your library. It must work because year after year these stations get a ratings spike in the fall.

AS far as other stations not playing any Christmas tunes, by this weekend I would think everybody else would begin sprinkling in some.

 

[dmer]

I noticed that too about the ratings spiking. I just wonder would people stop listening because a station had 400 Christmas songs in their playlist instead of 40. Radio stations are not what they used to be. They like to play it safe and not take any risks. My guess is if they played a lot more, people would still listen and maybe enjoy it more. It just drives me nuts because I like Christmas music, including the big hits. I just absolutely hate repetition. (Too be honest, twice in one day is too much for me, but I would even take 2 or 3 times in a day). I usually listen to stations like the Mountain, Classic Hits 103.5 or the River, where repitition is rare. But they are not playing any Christmas music currently and last year they did not start until Christmas Eve. So I have 3 choices. Listen to Jingle Bell Rock 6 times in an 8 hour period, listen to no Christmas music, or buy more Christmas CD's.

This is off topic, but I remember my old man telling me about when FM was still new (sorry, I was born in 74 and FM was already on its way to dull and boring by the time I listened in) and they used to listen to WMMR in Phila when they first started. They were always doing new and different things, and the listeners loved it. They were one of the top stations in the country for a time. Now they, like all stations, are formulaic and predictable. And they are no longer one of the top stations in the country. Coincidence? In our area, the Mountain is the only one that comes close to being unpredictable, and they even live off a playlist. But they have a fiercely loyal listener base. I dare any of our radio stations, big company or local company, to try something different and fire the consulting firm. Nothing has ruined stations more than so called "consultants" who think they know what people want. You may see spike in Magic and Cool's ratings now because they are it. If you want Christmas you listen to them, there is no one else.

 

[Nokmo True]

You're right.

The most thought that goes into programming, Christmas or otherwise, is which consultant to hire.

To answer your question, no, the people who run the station do not listen.

NO thought goes into it, none. At least none beyond operational necessity.

There is no regard for listeners as anything more than a crop to be harvested. Equate the format and the presentation with the size of the thresher. It's a formula. Half the time (or more) there isn't even a warm body in the building.

It's a business run by dullards and dimwits who wouldn't know creative if creative walked in the door with a sign that said "I'm creative".

Inventive? Forget it. No need to be inventive and lucky thing, no one fills the bill.

To borrow a line, "a grotesque carnival of human misery". I'm serious.

 

[Seltzer]

Christmas is programmed for cume not TSL. In other words, programmed more like a CHR than an A/C. If you look at the # of spins on a CHR station, you'll see their biggest songs played upwards of 50 times a week. Christmas stations approach that with those "40 songs that matter." You then fill out the variety with the other songs. THe other thing is stations playlists do usually get larger the closer to Christmas as more of the religious tunes get added. After the rating period ends---tomorrow this year, some stations may get a little more adventurous.

 

[Aramondo]

And that's the lingo-laden explanation as to why the Christmas format is repetitive and why all radio essentially sucks.

 

[pell guy]

There are so many good Christmas songs that never or rarely get played for instance most fans of 'OLDIES' radio probably don't know that
one of that Genres biggest act -Tommy James&The Shondells released a really nice tune a few years back called 'I Love Christmastime',
acts like Olivia Newton-John,and Anne Murray have released a few Christmas albums,but again like was mentioned earlier you only
hear a select amount of Christmas 'HITS'.

 

[dmer]

And that's the lingo-laden explanation as to why the Christmas format is repetitive and why all radio essentially sucks.

That is why radio is dying. Not literally, I mean people still listen, but the core of what made radio great is dying. I understand what Seltzer is saying. He is looking at it from the perspective of the consultants. I don't know of course if Seltzer agrees with that philosophy or not, but that is certainly how the powers that be look at it. Trust me, people that listen to Magic or Cool for Christmas music are not going to suddenly stop listening because instead of playing Holly Jolly Christmas 6 times a day, they play it 2 times and substitute Burl Ives "Santa Clause Is Coming To Town" for two times and his "Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer" song the other two times. Or how about Greg Lake's "I Believe in Father Christmas," my all time favorite Christmas song. I almost never hear that song on the radio. And that is hardly an Avante Garde Christmas song. I had to by a CD with that song on it just so I can hear it. ........ok I'm starting to rant again :. I'm sure everyone gets the point.

 

[Seltzer]

I believe that in order to win, the hits have to spin often. There is enough Arbitron data from over the years to back that up. A Christmas station that plays a 300 song library will beat one that plays a 600 song library every time.

Just b/c Holly Jolly plays 6 times a day doesn't mean the audience hears it 6 times a day.

I've heard "I Believe in Father Christmas" on a couple of stations this season. It is a great song.

 

[ThomasCarten]

I only play music to open and close my show (except for the half-hour break) and Christmas music starts on or about Dec. 24, ends on Epiphany. Old family custom I keep alive; we never decorated our house until late afternoon Dec. 24 and kept everything fired up until the Wise Men arrived with bold gold, weed and mrrrrrr.

 

[Cosmopolite]

WLSH-1410 in Lansford airs continuous Christmas music from Thanksgiving through Orthodox Christmas in January. This tradition dates back to their Christmas Eve 1952 sign-on.

 

[mevansrock]

I believe that in order to win, the hits have to spin often. There is enough Arbitron data from over the years to back that up. A Christmas station that plays a 300 song library will beat one that plays a 600 song library every time.

And that's precisely why I never listen to the radio anymore...and why I don't miss working in COMMERCIAL radio. I've been following this post...and I've been agreeing with a lot of it.

I swear...if it wasn't for VM-FM 91-7, I'd never turn a radio on in this town. And I'm not picking on any particular station...just the way everything is done in general these days. And maybe it was always like this, I don't know. I do, however, remember beginning my career at WSGD, spinning oldies with the old "index card" system. The library had at least 2500 rotating songs in it -- all of them -- ALL of them made the Top 40 between 1955 and 1975. They were separated into four different categories and the jock simply plugged the songs into a hot clock. It was awesome. (Dave McAndrews can probably shed some more light on this as well).

18 years at the mighty Rock, and all I saw was a playlist that shrunk year after year. It got to the point where you couldn't even talk about the music you were playing anymore. What was left to say about "Sweet Home Alabama?" And I'm sorry -- I could never embrace the whole "lifestyle" thing -- talk about what's topical in the news and all that crap. When I was growing up, it was all about jocks introducing me to new music and talking about the songs they were playing -- not about who won on Monday Night Football last night.

Look, I'm not naive. An ideal radio station to me would never be a ratings winner. But there has to be a happy medium somewhere. Oh well...let the semi-abusive replies begin...

And have a holly jolly Christmas (again)...

 

[dmer]

I've heard "I Believe in Father Christmas" on a couple of stations this season. It is a great song.

For whatever reason, I think I heard it on the radio once in the last 3 years. And despite my rants, I do listen to a few hours of Magic or Cool during this season, at least until they repeat Bruce Springsteen for a 3rd time. I once requested it on Magic early in the afternoon, maybe lunch time. I did not leave my desk until the end of the day, about 4:30, and still had not heard it. The DJ said he would get it on. I always have that kind of luck. They probably played at at 4:31 after I left. :-\

I'm with mevansrock here. Probably my dream station would fail in a month because I would be one of maybe 5 listeners. As a result, I have bought over 200 CD's over the years so I can get my own fix. I guess what I like and what most of my fellow listeners like are dramatically different, if the Arbitrons' are truly representative. Listeners seem to like being spoon fed the same songs repeatedly day after day. It's a shame because there are probably millions of songs out there, between album tracks that were not released as singles and prior hits that simply have been forgotten over the years. That's what used to be great about stations like WMMR in it's heyday. They did not just play the hit release from a rock album. They would play the other songs too, sometimes the whole album. Also, like mevansrock was saying, they would go behind the music and tell you about the artist/group and sometimes got big interviews with the groups themselves. Rock groups wanted to be interviewed by the them, in fact. Daniels and Webster have there moments, but how much do they really talk about the music they play. The Mountain and WHLM-FM do some good things, like only talking about the music, but they are totally voicetracked and not likely to get too creative with their format. Even they get repititious, though in their case it is day to day, as opposed to hour to hour.

 

[emo474]

I'm no longer on the radio (thank God), but I do Dj privately... just the other day, I played outdoors for two consecutive days up in Honesdale, 5 straight hours. I played no repeats for 5 hours and I don't run commercials, contests or news. I played only the best Christmas music and I had no repeats. So how come I tune in every 4 hours and hear Martina McBride doing "Little Drummer Boy"? I love Martina McBride, but I heard it at 8:30 on the way to work, between 12 and 1 while getting lunch and leaving work at 4:30... there are tons of songs and no reason to burn out listeners with the same songs. You head to a mall.. you hear Springsteen's "Santa Clause is Coming to Town", you get out of the mall you hear it again on the way to a restaurant.. and yes when you get out of the restaurant, you hear it again! I know they're not going to change things, so I do everything in my power to find other stations even if it means listening to static and far off formats.

 

[Seltzer]

I have an I POD. Trust me, what is on it would never work at a commercial station......Carrie Underwood, Beyonce, Johnny Mathis, Frank Sinatra, Emerson, Lake, & Palmer, BTO, Rhianna, etc.

A program has been developed that allows listeners to actually program a station (within limits of course) I think you'll see the more trendy programmers adopt it for weekends and some other off dayparts. It could certainly be applicable for Christmas stations for off dayparts as well. That's for next year.

OOps..Mariah Carey is on....gotta go...

 

[mevansrock]

Well, before this thread totally dies, I might as well get the "plug" in.

If you're sick of the usual stuff (and aren't we all), VM-FM 91-7 becomes "Holiday 91-7" every year. This year it's launching late on Tuesday and it'll run for about two-and-a-half weeks. In addition to the 300 or so alternative Christmas tracks we play (music by artists like FLAMING LIPS, WEEZER, COCTEAU TWINS, APPLES IN STEREO, etc), we add in all of the tradional faves (the stuff you hear far too often) and the stuff you just don't hear anymore. Chances are, if the song played on rock or pop radio sometime during the past 40 years, you'll hear it. The total library totals about 1000 cuts.

And...oh yeah...none of the pesky interruptions called "commercials." Check it out. You may dig it.

As much as I hate the fact that we dump format for about 16 days (because the format itself is awesome), it really does sound good. And for those of you who don't want to lose the VM-FM format, we MAY keep the format up on our stream...and just do the Christmas thing over the airwaves. Our technical guru is still working on this. It may happen, it may not.

That's it. Happy holidays (and variety) to all!

 

[oldies4ever]

Scott's True oldies channel on whats left of WARM has a nice mix of the classics and they mix 'em in: The Phil Spector xmas album, Mariah Carey's "All I want for xmas is you", sure not a real oldie IMHO, but has the hi energy feel of the Spector album, and my favorite, "all i want for christmas is you", By Vince Vance and the valiants, lead singer Lisa Layne. Nice as you get beat to death with the rest of 'em on the other stations.....

HAVE A COOL YULE

OLDIES4EVER ;D

 

[NT3]

If you're sick of the usual stuff (and aren't we all), VM-FM 91-7 becomes "Holiday 91-7" every year. This year it's launching late on Tuesday and it'll run for about two-and-a-half weeks.

Pretty cool, Mike! I had no idea you guys did this.


Now, to chime in on the topic a little more: The Christmas format you hear around here is what has always worked in the past at successful Christmas formats around the country. Hate it or not (and trust me, I do) this is what the majority of people want to hear. And yes, the powers repeat about every three hours with the other "deep" (hilarious word in this context) cuts and novelty stuff thrown in around it.

This is why I'm glad my iTunes library has about 500 Christmas songs that I can throw on the shuffle whenever I'm doing something holiday related.

Anyway, point is that the powers that be have done their homework on this and what's being played is what works. We're all in the very unfortunate minority on this one.

 

[doubleacoach]

Like VM-FM (Marywood), WSFX-FM (Luz. Co. Comm. College) turned the airwaves over to a mix of traditional and contemporary 24 hour holiday tracks. Though the wattage (100 watts) isn't slamming at 89.1 and 105.5 in W-B, at least the spirit of non-commercial radio reflecting the "pirate" image survives. When commercial radio gets so predictable, it doesn't take much to look like you are "the rebel."

 

[Zenith Transoceanic]

I only play music to open and close my show (except for the half-hour break) and Christmas music starts on or about Dec. 24, ends on Epiphany. Old family custom I keep alive; we never decorated our house until late afternoon Dec. 24 and kept everything fired up until the Wise Men arrived with bold gold, weed and mrrrrrr.

What?!

pell guy wrote:

Tommy James&The Shondells released a really nice tune a few years back called 'I Love Christmastime'

And here it is!