CITADEL MADE THE DECISION TO CANCEL WARD!!!

[ABQTom]

I hope this clarifies the issue once and for all:
From the LEGAL DEFENSE FUND WEB SITE FOR BERNIE:

http://home.comcast.net/~supportbernieward/site/

"
PLEASE NOTE: Some people signing the petition are calling for a boycott of various entities. Please know that it was the parent company of KGO that made the decision to take Bernie Ward off the air. Bernie has NOT been fired, he has been suspended w/pay."

"Contact Citadel button on the left. Call Citadel in New York and Las Vegas and/or send a fax. Sponsors have contacted Bernie to tell him they support him and want him on the air!
TELL CITADEL TO PUT BERNIE WARD BACK ON THE AIR
Note: The date of the rally at the Federal Building has been changed to January 22 @ 1:00 p.m."

 

[Shoot From Hip]

Excuse me, but without addressing the specifics of this case, any time a decision like this is made, it is done with the involvement of the corporate lawyers and HR people-- especially with a high profile talent at a top-rated radio station in a top 5 market that's owned by a publicly-traded company. The reason corporate structure exists is so that the local station has benefit of access to people who do these kinds of things for a living. Local managers are simply stewards for the corporation, with an obligation to act in a fiduciarily responsible manner. To think otherwise is naive, and a manager who acts otherwise...even a manager with the expertise and reputation of a Mickey Luckoff...will find himself/herself on the street by being a maverick and ignoring the requirements of the company.

 

[EastBay]

I suspect Mickey made the decision at the urging of Citadel. Regardless of who made the actual decision, it was safe to say that the decision was going to be made by someone. Guilty or innocent, it would simply be too much of a distraction, especially given the charges.

Personally, I hope he is truly innocent. He is a bit too far left for me, but I still liked listening to him bash Bush (always good sport). And while I hope this was just simply a matter of research as he says, I stop short of wanting to donate money to his (or anyone else's outside of my family) defense fund. What if he actually IS guilty, and I supported him? Having kids myself, that's a toughy. I wish him luck though; I hope it works out for him and he clears the charges- and his name (IF he is innocent).

 

[DavidKaye]

What if he actually IS guilty, and I supported him? Having kids myself, that's a toughy. I wish him luck though; I hope it works out for him and he clears the charges- and his name (IF he is innocent).

Remember that he doesn't fit any of the criteria. His computer was clean. The feds found only a couple photos and they were on his AOL account. The indictment is a simple one-page document that mentions nearly nothing. You can bet that if he was really guilty of anything they'd have tens or even hundreds of pages detailing the nature of the photos, the time and place seized, and lots of lurid details. They'd want to nab him good. But the indictment (that is the charges, an indictment is only a charge, not a verdict) is one of the simplest documents I've ever seen.

 

[oaktree]

Then, if your assessment is so correct, why, then did the legal beagles at KGO & Citadel take him off the air and put him on leave? Just so he wouldn't get "negative phones?"

And your law degree is from where?

 

[DavidKaye]

Then, if your assessment is so correct, why, then did the legal beagles at KGO & Citadel take him off the air and put him on leave? Just so he wouldn't get "negative phones?"

Yes, but remember that I said I disagree with this tactic. Personally, I think he should stay on until the trial. In fact, I was the very first person on this forum to say so. However, I don't run a multi-million dollar radio station with millions of dollars at stake, either, so I defer to the smarter people who do run one.

 

[ABQTom]

David Kaye wrote
"Yes, but remember that I said I disagree with this tactic. Personally, I think he should stay on until the trial. In fact, I was the very first person on this forum to say so. However, I don't run a multi-million dollar radio station with millions of dollars at stake, either, so I defer to the smarter people who do run one."
[/quote]

Tom writes -
Yes, Bernie should stay on until his trial. I said the same thing for KIRO's Mike Webb when he was convicted of insurance fraud. As for whether or not you own a station, here's what happened at KIRO in Seattle after they fired Mike Webb ... in Bernie Ward's timeslot until 1am.

KIRO rotated various Substitute Hosts just like KGO is doing now. Ratings went WAY down. Listeners quickly switched to Air America and Mike Malloy on AM 1090 (KPTK, CBS). KPTK ratings beat KIRO ratings within months.

Now, of course, Seattle and San Francisco are both ultraliberal, Bohemian markets, so Malloy will get ratings. Both markets can support two liberal talk stations (KIRO, KPTK in Seattle ... KQKE, KGO in SFO). In SFO, we'll see if Karel and Craft can pull the same numbers as Bernie. Certainly Malloy and Maddow on GREEN 960 will get some new listeners...KGO advertisers could complain, and Citadel Officials on W Lake Mead Blvd in Vegas might regret their decision...

 

[davideduardo]

Now, of course, Seattle and San Francisco are both ultraliberal, Bohemian markets, so Malloy will get ratings. Both markets can support two liberal talk stations (KIRO, KPTK in Seattle ... KQKE, KGO in SFO). In SFO, we'll see if Karel and Craft can pull the same numbers as Bernie. Certainly Malloy and Maddow on GREEN 960 will get some new listeners...KGO advertisers could complain, and Citadel Officials on W Lake Mead Blvd in Vegas might regret their decision...

You know, you can get a 10 share at 10 PM and 11PM and it won't move the 6-Mid share at all. There are so few people listening to radio that it does not make any difference in the short run... of course, letting even one person goto a competitor is bad, but late night has very few listeners.

 

[newsperson]

Newsperson replies:

Except at KGO it is a few thousand listeners from 10 p.m. to midnight and with the Gene Burns audience from 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. the combined time of 7:00 p.m. to midnight is tens of thousands of dollars and tens of thousand listeners.

Some radio stations go to automation in that time period and the managers they complain that they have so few listeners. The reality is that they drove them away. If all I am going to heard is recorded music I may as well pop in my own CDs. If the programing is taped unless it is compelling I may as well listen to another station.

Comments on this trend?

Newsperson

 

[DavidKaye]

Some radio stations go to automation in that time period and the managers they complain that they have so few listeners. The reality is that they drove them away. If all I am going to heard is recorded music I may as well pop in my own CDs. [....] Comments on this trend?

When does KOIT go to automation? Can you tell? Does it affect the audience? I mention KOIT because it is an extremely popular station and yet it's automated a good deal of the time.

 

[newsperson]

Newsperson responds:

KOIT-FM live shifts now (under the new Entercom management) end at 8:00 p.m. This station has a union contract and previously there was a live person from 8:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. and they would earn full-time pay.

The point that other posters are making is that this time is not important. It does save money except a better way to save money is to only broadcast from 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. and that would really cut down on payroll to broadcast only when the consultants say that most people are listening.

Yes the rest of the time the transmitter would be off so a station would save big time on its power bill. If you think that this is absurd it is really not much different that what you are expressing about nighttime radio.

Because once you say nighttime is not important, then its afternoon drive follwed by middays and then everything except 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. My strong feeling is that all 24-hours in broadcasting are important.

I do respect other posters here except (this is not a personal attack) your point of view sounds like the ones of "cheap channel" managers. The current path that Clear Channel has taken with Y-92 in Sacramento (My92.5) is the wrong one. They have now eliminated talent on all shifts!

Please consider the reality of what has happened at Y-92 and then respond and then tell us if you still think that nighttime radio shifts (like Bernie Ward's or music djs) are not important.

Agree or disagree I will look forward to your response.

Newsperson

 

[LKellerIII]

"Because once you say nighttime is not important, then its afternoon drive follwed by middays and then everything except 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. My strong feeling is that all 24-hours in broadcasting are important. I do respect other posters here except (this is not a personal attack) your point of view sounds like the ones of "cheap channel" managers. The current path that Clear Channel has taken with Y-92 in Sacramento (My92.5) is the wrong one. They have now eliminated talent on all shifts! Please consider the reality of what has happened at Y-92 and then respond and then tell us if you still think that nighttime radio shifts (like Bernie Ward's or music djs) are not important."

I agree with you that all parts of the radio day are important - but the reality is that big broadcasting conglomerates like Clear Channel are trying to save money to maximize return to their investors, and nothing we do can stop them. It makes sense to go cheap when very few people are listening. Obviously, KGO can't voice-track a local call in show, though they could replace live talk with a "Best of Ronn Owens" replay, or plug in a syndicated show. You have to give Mickey Luckoff and the old Disney owners credit for consistency. We'll see if Citadel stays with Luckoff's ideals over the long haul, or starts to water down KGO.

Remember that those of us who post here are either radio professionals or radio fans, so we like live jocks and live radio. I doubt most KOIT listeners care if they're listening to automated "Love Songs After Dark," , or Lori Sanders live saying "Light Rock, LESSSSS talk" over and over. Even when it's live, it sounds voice-tracked. It's not her fault - she gets to ad lib a little in afternoon drive, and she sounds like a smart woman and a real pro. It would be nice if they turned her loose, but the station got to be the number 1 music station with a rigid format, and it ain't going to change.

It will be interesting to see if the Cheap Channel stations change at all when they go private. Unfortunately, I doubt it.

 

[DavidKaye]

The point that other posters are making is that this time is not important. It does save money except a better way to save money is to only broadcast from 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. and that would really cut down on payroll to broadcast only when the consultants say that most people are listening.

My point (me, David Kaye, not anybody else) is that KOIT sounds automated most of the time, even when live, and yet it's the #1 music station (AQH 12+). So, this seems to prove the belief that live DJs are not important to a station's success, at least in some formats.

It's funny that I have always had an intense interest in radio automation, going back to the old IGM and Schafer systems of the 1960s, so I think I'm adept at hearing when a station is automated and when it's not. I've been fooled by KOIT many times because I've assumed it was automated when it was live.

A classic case was that I thought weekends were automated, and then one Saturday afternoon Tom Saunders announces his retirement, talks about his history in radio, and plays an old jingle from when he was a rock jock. Huh? Yep, live and local.

But after all, in a format such as KOIT's what does a DJ really need to do? Announce song titles and artists? Most listeners don't care about that anyway, especially since KOIT is technically an oldies station anyway. Clever patter? Well, the listeners are there for the music.

So, automated and automated-sounding stations can survive and thrive, whether we wish to admit it or not.

 

[LKellerIII]

"It's funny that I have always had an intense interest in radio automation, going back to the old IGM and Schafer systems of the 1960s, so I think I'm adept at hearing when a station is automated and when it's not. I've been fooled by KOIT many times because I've assumed it was automated when it was live."

Conversely, I still contend that a voice-tracked show with funny or interesting content can not only be as good - but BETTER than a live "less talk" type show where the DJ is only reading liners. But it seems to me that VTed shows on music stations don't even try - they just pre-record a couple of announcements per hour that are dropped in at miscellaneous intervals. It seems like Clear Channel in particular is just buying a little time while they transition into totally jock-less futomated formats.

It's pathetic that I can't think of a better example of a decent VTed show than John Tesh - but like him or not, his show has content. Last time I checked, they also pre-record him introducing songs and IDing "Star 101.3." All things considered, it's a much better effort that the pitiful VTed Darren McPeake afternoon show.

Going back to the late 60s, at the beginning of FM radio's rise, there were some well-done automated formats, like the "Hit Parade" and later "Solid Gold" formats that Bill Drake programmed.

 

[SFStatic]

IMHO, it has been the wet dream of most general managers and companies to not have to deal with talent since at least the 60's, and one of the first was the IGM "Simplimation." The cheap SOB's (LONG before CC) were "bicycling" around taped shows of the hosts VTs from station to station-- a couple years after one of them had DIED!!

 

[newsperson]

Except KOIT-FM does not voice-track, when you hear someone back or forward announce songs it is live. Someone is on live everyday until 8:00 p.m. so even if they sound automated the station achives number one status in important demos so the personalities are part of that sucess.

When Bonneville ran KOIT they were live/staffed until 1:00 a.m. so there is a long history of someone being on the air live for 20-hours per day.

Although management has changed (Entercom/Immaculate Heart) the last I checked KOIT-AM/FM are still owned by Bonneville.

So does Bernie Ward listen to KOIT-FM?

Remember how this post started?

Newsperson

 

[LKellerIII]

"When Bonneville ran KOIT they were live/staffed until 1:00 a.m. so there is a long history of someone being on the air live for 20-hours per day."

I'm confident you're wrong on that point, Newsperson. Entercom took over the San Francisco FM Bonneville stations earlier this year. "Love Songs After Dark" has been on starting at 8:00 PM for years now - Bonneville started it. You're not telling us that there was a live announcer in the studio reading those "Love Songs" image liners, are you?

"Although management has changed (Entercom/Immaculate Heart) the last I checked KOIT-AM/FM are still owned by Bonneville."

I'm reasonably sure Bonneville no longer has any stake in any of their former SF properties. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...but as I understand it; Entercom owns the FMs now...Bonneville traded them in a station swap for Entercom properties in other markets - I don't believe any cash changed hands. The sale of the AM to Immaculate Heart took some months longer.

"So does Bernie Ward listen to KOIT-FM? Remember how this post started?"

These threads wander off the original subject all the time. That's what keeps them interesting. When they stay on subject, they generally die sooner. In this case, you were the one that first changed the subject from Ward and KGO by saying: "...If all I am going to heard is recorded music I may as well pop in my own CDs." After that, we were off on a tangent about automated music formats and voice tracking.

 

[newsperson]

Lkeller,

Yes you are right about the love songs at night on KOIT, it was just those promo/liners.

If you look up KOIT-FM (search FCC licensed stations) Bonneville does still own it. It is under an LMA/time brokerage agreement so Bonneville is only slightly involved.

AM 1260 KSFB is also still under an LMA to Immaculate Heart and Bonneville is the licensee.

The contract (with Entercom) on file with the FCC shows that in the exchange Bonneville also contributed one million dollars cash. It seems that Bonneville was receiving more in value than Entercom so that's the reason for the cash.

I beleive that KOIT-FM, KDFC and 95.7 were valued at $ 250,000.00 in this transaction. It does make the $ 1,000,000.00 cash payment seem small doesn't it?

Newsperson

 

[LKellerIII]

"If you look up KOIT-FM (search FCC licensed stations) Bonneville does still own it. It is under an LMA/time brokerage agreement so Bonneville is only slightly involved. AM 1260 KSFB is also still under an LMA to Immaculate Heart and Bonneville is the licensee."

Thanks for the correction, Newsperson. Good information.