Cjad

[cyberdad]

I never expected to hear this one in the Chicago area.

I was casually tuning around the dial yesterday morning about two hours before sunrise, when I landed on 800 and heard the words "west island". That's the part of Montreal where I usually stayed on my business trips there during the past two decades. CJAD? Really?

Indeed it was. On top of CKLW and everything else. For abou 8-10 minutes, which was long enough to get a positive ID. The signal was quite good, then it faded and never returned. I've never heard CJAD here before and, as I said, I never expected to. I'm right in the null for both CJAD's day and night pattern (50kw/10kw). I checked 800 again this morning and it was business as usual, CKLW on top of the slop.

Has anyone else been hearing CJAD lately or know if anything is going on with them? My guess is that I just was in the right place (on the dial) at the right time and stumbled upon a nice catch.

 

[icybluelake]

In the thread below about the 800 AM frequency, somebody mentioned that CJAD was running daytime power and pattern at night. That was earlier this month, maybe that's continuing and the reason that you heard it. I've never picked them up here, but I'm about 200 miles west of you.

 

[cyberdad]

In the thread below about the 800 AM frequency, somebody mentioned that CJAD was running daytime power and pattern at night. That was earlier this month, maybe that's continuing and the reason that you heard it. I've never picked them up here, but I'm about 200 miles west of you.

I think they run the same pattern day and night, but with 50kw day and 10kw night. Either way, I'm in the null. Presumably, that would also be the case for the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City. BTW, my apologies for the small letters in the title of this thread. I was unable to go back and change it to all caps CJAD.

Also....I'm very familiar with your part of the world....What do we want to talk about. My daughter and middle son having gone to University of Iowa? My own college days where you could go to the old Roosevelt Hotel in Cedar Rapids and have a beer without getting carded? Pizza at Leonardo's on the northwest side of CR? Or, in the days when Rockwell Collins was a customer and I'd stock up with a bag full of Maid-Rites from Lyndale mall to bring home with me. LOL...and apologies for the veer!

 

[mimo]

It's a different pattern night time compared to daytime, and a different power level, but yes, they've been on day pattern and power all month. The night pattern is very narrow and goes mostly north. The day pattern is broader east and west. It Ottawa it's a local signal during the day. At night, it's gone, except for this month. It's been nice to finally hear some of their night programmes as they're quite good.

BTW I'm also familiar with eastern Iowa. More so Iowa City than Cedar Rapids. How familiar? I can pinpoint to the mile where some radio stations disappear or appear.

 

[icybluelake]

Wow, what an honor to talk about eastern Iowa (and my cities!) with folks from other places on this board. Maid-Rite, the Roosevelt Hotel, Collins, and radio reception! Well, Cyberdad, Leonardo's is still there. I can think of few restaurants that have had as long a run in Cedar Rapids. I just went there a few weeks ago. It always takes me back to childhood. The pizza tastes much like I remember, and to me, that's a good thing. But even more remarkable is the decor -- red vinyl/naugahide, black formica, chairs that swivel with casters on their legs. But no longer any smoke in the air. Oh, the atmosphere.

Mimo, I've read your comments a lot on here, too, but didn't know you were familiar with my neck of the woods. Where are you from? I didn't attend the U of I, but did spend a fair amount of time visiting Iowa City years ago. Haven't spent much time there recently, but am always passing through on the way to virtually anywhere. It's still practically my second hometown. You might remember the rather treacherous clover-leaf intersection of I-80 and I-380. It's finally slated to be rebuilt. I haven't heard when or for how long.

You guys could really probably fill in my memories about what I heard on the AM or FM dials from years gone by, and maybe now, too. Cyberdad, I pass through your area a lot, too, and always try to do it in a car by myself where I can mess around with the radio without driving any passengers crazy.

I love to travel around and take my hobby with me, and always like to chat -- maybe about your areas, too.

Back to CJAD -- I remember hearing them several times around NYC at night. I didn't put it together that they were regularly only at 10kW at night, but if I thought about it, I'd remember that they weren't at 50kW. I have taken a few trips in the Adirondack Mountains, just south of Montreal, close enough to be fringe territory for some Montreal FM signals. Characteristically, I don't remember hearing CJAD at all during the day -- I strained to listen to news on 940, a 50kW signal. It just amazed me how bad ground conductivity is up there, especially in northern New England.

 

[schmave]

Wow, what an honor to talk about eastern Iowa (and my cities!) with folks from other places on this board. Maid-Rite, the Roosevelt Hotel, Collins, and radio reception! Well, Cyberdad, Leonardo's is still there. I can think of few restaurants that have had as long a run in Cedar Rapids. I just went there a few weeks ago. It always takes me back to childhood. The pizza tastes much like I remember, and to me, that's a good thing. But even more remarkable is the decor -- red vinyl/naugahide, black formica, chairs that swivel with casters on their legs. But no longer any smoke in the air. Oh, the atmosphere.

Mimo, I've read your comments a lot on here, too, but didn't know you were familiar with my neck of the woods. Where are you from? I didn't attend the U of I, but did spend a fair amount of time visiting Iowa City years ago. Haven't spent much time there recently, but am always passing through on the way to virtually anywhere. It's still practically my second hometown. You might remember the rather treacherous clover-leaf intersection of I-80 and I-380. It's finally slated to be rebuilt. I haven't heard when or for how long.

You guys could really probably fill in my memories about what I heard on the AM or FM dials from years gone by, and maybe now, too. Cyberdad, I pass through your area a lot, too, and always try to do it in a car by myself where I can mess around with the radio without driving any passengers crazy.

I love to travel around and take my hobby with me, and always like to chat -- maybe about your areas, too.

Back to CJAD -- I remember hearing them several times around NYC at night. I didn't put it together that they were regularly only at 10kW at night, but if I thought about it, I'd remember that they weren't at 50kW. I have taken a few trips in the Adirondack Mountains, just south of Montreal, close enough to be fringe territory for some Montreal FM signals. Characteristically, I don't remember hearing CJAD at all during the day -- I strained to listen to news on 940, a 50kW signal. It just amazed me how bad ground conductivity is up there, especially in northern New England.

I have never tried for CJAD, mostly because 800 around Columbus usually is just mush. Every time I flip through, I hear very little, and if anything ever stands out it's just an extremely weak CKLW.
As far as ground conductivity, I was amazed at this same thing on a road trip I took with some buddies between D.C. and Portland, Maine this past summer. Much of our time anywhere within a few hours of NYC was spent listening to WFAN, and man, once we got down past Philly heading back to D.C., WFAN fell off fast, so much so that maybe by 130 miles south of NYC, we had to switch to satellite radio to listen to that day's Reds-Yankees game. In the Midwest where we are spoiled with decent to pretty good conductivity, that signal would have been fine all the way to D.C.

 

[cyberdad]

@mimo: Thanks for setting me straight about CJAD's two different patterns. I was looking at R-L (not always known for accuracy) and it looked like same pattern/two powers. But anyway, I'm still in the null. Also I remember from your previous posts that you spent time in east/southeast Iowa. Great memories for me and hopefully for you as well.

@icybluelake: Yup, Leonardo's is a blast. Who knew a little place in Cedar Rapids would have some of the best pizza anywhere. Take it from a guy who travels. And the decor, espeically the black tuck & roll upholstery with the red lighting absolutely MAKES the place. Last time I was there was a cold Saturday night and the line was out the door!

Back on topic: As you and schmave both noted, indeed we're spoiled in the midwest with fantastic ground conductivity. Once again, mimo can correct me, but my obsertvation is that the poor conductivity in New England gets at least somewhat better when you get to Montreal. On my business trips during the last couple of decades I used to regularly listen to oldies on Ottawa's CIWW/1310 driving around Montreal. It made the 120-mile hop during the daytime without much difficulty. Not exactly a local-grade signal, but very listenable. In fact, all the (remaining) Ottawa AMs were audible daytime in Montreal and vice versa.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

If I am in doubt about a directional antenna pattern, I go to AM Query. The pattern appearance is much more representative of the skywave field strength than the R-L groundwave maps. Groundwave maps are distorted by differences in conductivity in different directions, and the groundwave gives the appearance of the nulls not being as deep as they are.

Day Pattern

http://transition.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/305451-55066.pdf

Night Pattern

http://transition.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/305451-55067.pdf

Looks like the day pattern is considerably augmented, which is unusual for an FCC record of a station which is not domestic. Usually those show the Standard Pattern and not the Augmented Pattern.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I've been looking at measured and estimated ground conductivity maps from around the world. In general, low lying areas near rivers and streams have better conductivity. Rocky and mountainous areas, and areas at higher altitude, have lower conductivity. New England has a lot of rocky soil and lower altitude mountains. Of course, development and lots of concrete lower conductivity. Usually I see these developed areas generalized as 1 mS/m conductivity. Being near the St. Lawrence River delta may have better conductivity, but there are also a lot of rocky shoreline areas further up the St. Lawrence. The FCC maps for Hawaii and Alaska show 4 mS/m near the shorelines, and 2 mS/m inland. I doubt much measurement went into those maps though. It was mainly generalizations. I don't put much belief in M-3 at the local level. You can get a better idea about conductivity with a radio. If the stations seem to fall off rapidly in the daytime, despite what R-L says, conductivity is probably low. If the station seems to match R-L, conductivity is probably near M-3 values. Examples are Chicago-close to M-3. Glen Clark says that Chicago area conductivity is about the closest to M-3 estimates that he has seen. Much of Chicago used to be swamp land, and when it was drained, a lot of loamy organic silt remained. Northern Lower Michigan-much less than M-3. There are lots of sandy and gravelly areas where organic loamy soil has washed away.

 

[mimo]

CJAD really does pull their signal away from the south during the day. I saw a pattern map that shows it's designed to go to the border and die out right after that. The ground conductivity is not very good at all around here. Compare what little 250 watt KBOE in Oskaloosa can do compared to what Toronto's AM 740 can do. Pretty much the same coverage. I looked at some different coverage maps day and night for CJAD and they do look similar to what Shroedinger has posted with a bit of a difference in the 2 night patterns. I don't know if CJAD is aware of their signal going where it's not supposed to, but to be honest, I'm in no hurry to tell them.

As far as Iowa is concerned, I'm most familiar with towns like Iowa City, Burlington, Mount Pleasand, and Fairfield. Those were some good and interesting times. I had be up to Cedar Rapids a few times as a friend had moved there but to be honest, i couldn't really tell you what is where. I could find my way around the city without any difficulty though.