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CKLW and WJR Radio

R

Radio Fish Heads

Nothing stays the same ! That is a certain ..... I remember listening to CKLW
driving up Far Hills ( Dayton-Kettering, Ohio ) in 1970 listening to the Big 8....
Daytime signal in Dayton ; a little static, but still good. A few months later I
was in University Heights, Cleveland at night and CKLW just pounded into the
City like a local.... CKLW with Hal Martin; its 9 o'clock in Detroit, 10 o'clock
in Windsor ( or soemthing like that ),and the Motown music cooked my car
speaker.....What a great radio station "She" was ....CKLW...than it all ended
a few years later....No more RKO....
WJR today is not what she used to be either....sad but true the 50,000 watt
signal just does not have the juice , the sound of the Professionals who were
once there in the Motor City.... driving into Detroit is quite depressing...
I am sorry; I love detroit, I don't mean to beat up on it.... I wish we could go
back to 1970, and re-do things over; but I know thats not possible.
CKLW forever.... WLW never !!!!!
 
A think a lot of peoplel would listen to AM again, or even for the first time, if stations like these actually had people on the air that made you want to listen. When tornado warnings seem imminent, or when it's Sunday morning and you want some ideas of things to do in the afternoon, or even when it's late at night at the truck traffic is wearing you down and you've still got 100 miles to go, it would be great to have a station or two that you knew you could reliably listen to and get what you need within a few minutes. Not that WJR or CKLW always fit those requirements "back in the day," but they did reflect the interests and character of the people in their communities, and they did seem to realize that it included more than a few people outside the metro Detroit area.

I lament the loss of good clear channel AM signals at night, but frankly, there's scarce little to actually listen to on those big stations anymore. Full service isn't just a lost commodity at gas stations, I fear.

I think corporate big wigs who took over WJR a few years ago from other corporate big wigs forgot the station is in a heavily-union town, and going "conservative talk" might be their evangelism to further consolidate power, but it won't buy you love, or many more listeners, in Motown. And I've suggested to the CRTC (Canada's version of the FCC) in years past that since CKLW is only serving Essex County now, they switch it back to AM580 or swap it with AM1550 and let the CBC cover the Lake Erie region on 800.

I think the biggest waste of that might AM800 frequency was the day George W Bush started the bombing of Iraq. I was actually in an Iraqi grocery store in Detroit that day. They had a TV on, showing bombs striking Baghdad. I asked the shop owner if that was video from the earlier attack on Iraq that George HW Bush instigated. He said, no, it was a satellite feed of an Arab news channel called Al-Jazeera, and it was happening right then. Needless to say, the news hadn't yet broken on American media.

I had to hightail it back to Dayton to my own station and cooordinate going to network coverage, which we knew was pending. On the drive back, I tuned around and about an hour later started to hear special coverage on a few stations. CBE (AM1550) went to special coverage from the CBC, and offered a different angle on things than the ABC coverage I heard on WJR. Sadly, CKLW aired the same American coverage from ABC that WJR was airing, but on a 7-second delay. WGTE was still airing classical music and hadn't yet gone to NPR's coverage. And I think WLW and some of the other "militia friendly" right wing stations started to have DJs commenting and inciting hatred for Iraqis and Saddam Hussein.
I would have really appreciated contrasting that kind of hysteria with the reasoned, inquisitive CBC coverage, but the CBC signal doesn't much make it south of Monroe. Today, all but a few Detroiters still get to hear a Canadian take on world news. It could have made a difference in a swing state like Ohio to attract even a 1.0 share of audience in Toledo and Cleveland with original, noncommercial talk programming from the CBC if it could be heard on the formerly-influential big big 50kw radio waves of AM800.

Does anyone else on the board think, as I do, that if the commerial operators still can't make ends meet with all of the deregulation they've received from US and Canadian government over-seers (especially the exemptions the one commercial operater in Windsor has had), that some of those frequencies should then be re-assigned to a licensee that doesn't have to cut public service in the name of meeting shareholder expectations? Why not go non-commercial on some of these 50kw AMers and let an NPR affiliate operate it and restore some sort of "full service" programming to a large area? They can gain contributors from a larger area, and provide engaging, professionally-produced programming aimed at listeners to motorists who won't have to change the dial as FM signals fade every half hour or so? After all, there is supposed to be an advantage to a big 50kw signal on AM that actually benefits listeners.
 
Goldilocks94941 said:
A think a lot of peoplel would listen to AM again, or even for the first time, if stations like these actually had people on the air that made you want to listen.

I lament the loss of good clear channel AM signals at night, but frankly, there's scarce little to actually listen to on those big stations anymore. Full service isn't just a lost commodity at gas stations, I fear.

Does anyone else on the board think, as I do, that if the commerial operators still can't make ends meet with all of the deregulation they've received from US and Canadian government over-seers (especially the exemptions the one commercial operater in Windsor has had), that some of those frequencies should then be re-assigned to a licensee that doesn't have to cut public service in the name of meeting shareholder expectations? Why not go non-commercial on some of these 50kw AMers and let an NPR affiliate operate it and restore some sort of "full service" programming to a large area? They can gain contributors from a larger area, and provide engaging, professionally-produced programming aimed at listeners to motorists who won't have to change the dial as FM signals fade every half hour or so? After all, there is supposed to be an advantage to a big 50kw signal on AM that actually benefits listeners.
Click to expand...
I agree with you about the lack of entertaining full-service programming on the clear channel stations. I doubt, however, that Americans would pay to support NPR on a 50kw station. I cite as an example the potential bankruptcy of Sirius. I think most Americans associate "Free" with "radio", but I could be wrong.

I don't know much about this station but WILL in Urbana, IL is a 5,000 watt NPR station that covers a good portion of Illinois. I wonder how they are doing financially these days?
 
WILL has an FM as well, as well as WBAA in Lafayette, IN. Somehow I don't see FM NPR listeners switching over to AM in any large numbers.

By the way, RKO did (was forced to) sell CKLW around 1971, but CKLW continued with Top 40 or A/C in one form or another until 1984..
 
I drove through Windsor last month and went to the former Riverside Drive location of CKLW, where I worked as an Op in the spring of 1970. Now the property belongs to the CBC and seems ghost-like compared to "the old days" of working there for RKO Radio.

Walking around the place brought back some great memories, and I had a couple of pictures taken of me, now white-haired and slightly overweight, compared to being young, hungry, and lightning fast reaction times when the Big 8 was at its peak.

I recalled how I was bursting with pride, and yet humbled I was to be able to walk across the threshold of that station, and go to work with some of the hottest talent in the industry while being "their hands" on the board. The expectation was that absolutely EVERYTHING you did was completed perfectly, set after set, after set, and nothing less was accepted.

The driveway is still the same, and once when I was outside for a short smoke break, The Supremes arrived in a limmo, followed shortly after by Martha & The Vandellas.

Although I was to later work at many of Canada's largest radio stations, and eventually go on to become President of my own stand-alone FM station, I'm tempted to say that my accomplishments at CKLW were likely the peak of my broadcast career. Being the fella that "drove" the station was a real honor for me ... like being the sailor who is actually hands-on at the helm of a really large, powerful ship like the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan would feel when he spun the wheel.

Airchecks of "The Big 8" are always welcome if you have any to swap.

Regards to all,
Lee
 
Leesmith1 said:
I drove through Windsor last month and went to the former Riverside Drive location of CKLW, where I worked as an Op in the spring of 1970. Now the property belongs to the CBC and seems ghost-like compared to "the old days" of working there for RKO Radio.

Walking around the place brought back some great memories, and I had a couple of pictures taken of me, now white-haired and slightly overweight, compared to being young, hungry, and lightning fast reaction times when the Big 8 was at its peak.

I recalled how I was bursting with pride, and yet humbled I was to be able to walk across the threshold of that station, and go to work with some of the hottest talent in the industry while being "their hands" on the board. The expectation was that absolutely EVERYTHING you did was completed perfectly, set after set, after set, and nothing less was accepted.

The driveway is still the same, and once when I was outside for a short smoke break, The Supremes arrived in a limmo, followed shortly after by Martha & The Vandellas.

Although I was to later work at many of Canada's largest radio stations, and eventually go on to become President of my own stand-alone FM station, I'm tempted to say that my accomplishments at CKLW were likely the peak of my broadcast career. Being the fella that "drove" the station was a real honor for me ... like being the sailor who is actually hands-on at the helm of a really large, powerful ship like the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan would feel when he spun the wheel.

Airchecks of "The Big 8" are always welcome if you have any to swap.

Regards to all,
Lee
Click to expand...

CKLW was a legendary station. Even in the Chicago area where we had WLS & WCFL, I would occasionally tune in CKLW. It was an exciting station.
Did any other Detroit station ever give it serious competition? I know WKNR was around for awhile.
 
Goldilocks94941 said:
I think corporate big wigs who took over WJR a few years ago from other corporate big wigs forgot the station is in a heavily-union town, and going "conservative talk" might be their evangelism to further consolidate power, but it won't buy you love, or many more listeners, in Motown. And I've suggested to the CRTC (Canada's version of the FCC) in years past that since CKLW is only serving Essex County now, they switch it back to AM580 or swap it with AM1550 and let the CBC cover the Lake Erie region on 800.
Click to expand...

That would be great. I get 1550 in Cleveland in the daytime, but it would be great to be able to get a clear, strong signal at night.
 
What's in the old CKLW studios now, anything?
What was a yearly salary for a full time 1975 Teddy "Bear" Richards or Johnny Williams?
I often wondered if the jocks or the News Dept. made more $ since CK was such a monster when it came to reporting & traffic.
I saw pics of Terry Kath & Chicago while visiting CKLW before he died. Looked pretty wired. Any old stories of drug use by jocks or by celebrities visiting while on the air back then?
I'm also curious if there are still any old outdated billboards around Detroit that have CKLW on them. Deep in the bowels of the city on some alley wall of a building half crumbling away!
 
This site is required reading for any Big 8 fans: www.thebig8.net. This will answer a lot of your questions. An crumbling old billboard? Amnything's possible..there's one covered up by greenery in Springfield OH with "WBLY-FM" on it which has to be at least 25 years old. I thought I had heard that the CBC has facilities in the RFiverside Drive location but I could be wrong.
 
>>What was a yearly salary for a full time 1975 Teddy "Bear" Richards or Johnny Williams?>>

Is that the same Johnny Williams that worked at KHJ?
What did those guys make? I didn't see it on the website.
 
Great reflections on CKLW. I think the Windsor and Detroit time of day was the same. But when they gave the temperature there was a difference. 82 degrees, 28 celsius or something like that. It sounded weird but it was interesting to hear it. The music was overwhelmingly good, even the unknown songs they sometimes played. A lot of times it seemed they played records right out of the box. Some songs I heard weeks and months before it hit on my local stations in Ohio. I remember the names of the DJs but I can't remember anything they said that stood out. They didn't talk long at all. They just kept that great music going. What a radio station!
 
Even tho' I hated the station when I was growing up (because you just couldn't get away from it - on the school bus, in stores, even coming off electrical wires!), I paid an unannounced visit one afternoon to their studios in Windsor shortly after graduating high school with a friend who was also starting out in radio at the time. One of the announcers showed us around, and we even got to meet Rosalie. (My not-so-sophisticated friend suggested they got payloa for playing something as out-of-character as Minnie Riperton's "Loving You." )

We were, like their many pilgrims and visitors, impressed by their studio layout - they had a central hallway which all of the studios and conference rooms bordered, with triple paned windows thru-out, so that they could easily show people where all of the magic happened on a walk-thru without actually interrupting folks from their jobs. Smart studio design on Ouelette Avenue. And, unlike the small stations we worked at right out of high school, they not only had a board op as well as the DJs, but had duplicates of everything on carts so that there would never be dead air from anything misfiring. Two sets of cart machines with two sets of commercials, songs, jingles, ready to fire without delay.

My own first appearance on radio was actually on CKLW, probably in 1970, as a pre-teen who phoned in a report of a refinery fire in Toledo (which I had heard about on WOHO and could see from my bedroom window in Point Place). They edited the heck out of my call (impressive in the pre-digital days, no?) and used it on 20-20 news a few times that night. (Note: newscasts - and at night - on a commercial music station!) Otherwise they rarely had any news, crime reports or otherwise, about anything happening in their massive coverage area in Ohio. But at least Ohio and Ontario both observed daylight saving time when Michigan stayed an hour behind.

I bought the DVD of the "Radio Revolution: The Rise and Fall of the Big 8" a few years ago - the one that's mentioned on the audio clips from 2002 that are included with an earlier posting. Decent memories, tho' I think the bitching about the Canadian content being a "problem" for CKLW's success is a cop-out.

One thing the video producers got wrong, however, is that when they show a radio dial scanning to AM 800 in their graphics, they neglected to capture the unmistakeable sound of CKLW's massive sidebands. Big honking muttonchops, as it were. Even a blind person could instantly know when you had dialed AM800 within 150 miles of their transmitter by the louder splatter on either side of their main carrier. I think it even carried thru on the skywave, if I recall, from hearing them at night in West Virginia and New York. One of the transmitter engineers explained to me that they had rigged up a device to modulate the side carriers at 150%, which made it impossible to not notice them, and made you stop to listen to them when dialing around.

The station disengaged that technology some years ago. Since they didn't have to play by FCC rules, they were able to enhance their signal to actually be stronger than 50kw by modulating at such a loud volume. And no distortion! Gotta respect that level of technical ingenuity, actually. Sorry to say that, unless I'm interested hearing the latest screed from right wing wackos or fundamentalist business preachers, there's nothing much left on my AM dial in Seattle that's worth dialing around the listen to anymore.

Thanks for the great radio memories. Let's see if we can come up with some new ones today, eh?

-- GL
 
At least in 1970 Windsor & Detroit were still an hour apart(Canada an hour later). If you listen to one of the airchecks of Walt "Baby" love his 1st talk break is proof talking into Ronnie Dyson's "Why Can't I Touch You" from '70... very cool that he sent Bread's "Make It With You" out as a request to CLEVELAND OHIO.

http://www.thebig8.net/wblove.mp3

...39 years later he's syndicated & turned religous.
 
CKLW's processing would cut through about anything. I remember Boy Scout camp one year in Defiance, OH. First, unlike where I lived further south in Ohio the night signal was good, second, at the little camp store the radio was tuned to CKLW but just off frequency, so any "c" "s" 'K" sound coming from the announcer would be very loud. There were two occasions when Windsor and Detroit were an hour apart, in opposite directions. One was before Michigan started observing DST "It's 8:00 in Windsor, 7:00 in Detroit". The other was in the winter of 1975, when the U.S. attempted to move to year round DST, then it was "7:00 in Windsor, 8:00 in Detroit", In the winter there's not enough daylight to save, and sunrise was at 9am, so that idea was abandoned.
 
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