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CKWW 580 oldies to South Asian?
- Thread starter tblanks
- Start date
CKWW is in Windsor, Otario, Canada, across from Detroit. It has just 500 watts and has a very severe null towards Cleveland. It is hardly a "rimshot" and is more of a "DXer's catch".
You pretty much catch it near the lake if the wind is blowing the right way. CKLW 800 would be more of a "rim shot". Barely.
CKLW used to be a major winner in the Cleveland ratings, mostly on the West Side near the lake. But that was over 50 years ago when the noise level was nearly zero.
CKWW/580 throws most of its power to the NE, away from Cleveland, that is true. The signal can still be picked up with a good radio in the Lakeshore communities near and west of Cleveland. Maybe I used the wrong term.
I could pick up CKWW in the Akron area pretty good at night a number of years ago but I guess the CRTC [Canadian version of FCC] got upset that they seemed to be catering more to the south of the border so ordered them to tighten up their signal pattern. Now it's just a distant memory unless I'm up west of Cleveland along the lakeshore. As far as CKLW goes back in the early/mid 70s my sister and I got into fights over which station was better, she preferred CKLW while I liked the Cleveland/Akron stations. CKLW came in like gangbusters!
Some years ago, CKWW, AM 580, came in fairly well in Cleveland. I used to listen while driving to and from work. It was interesting with its historical CKLW AM800 format. There, I heard for the first time, "Mr. Monday" by The Original Caste, a Canadian group. The song was their second hit single in 1969 with the first hit version of "One Tin Soldier" being the other one. I heard "One Tin Soldier" before, but not "Mr. Monday". I liked it so much that I bought a copy. Additionally, I always liked the catchy "Just As Bad As You" by Shawne Jackson (1974). She's also a Canadian artist. Released on Playboy Records in the United States, the single was not successful stateside. I used to play it on WBWC when I was a college student. I always considered it to be a complete "bomb". Apparently, it was a hit in Canada and I was overjoyed to actually hear it on CKWW in this century.
I was the Music Director of WBWC back in the 1974-1976 years. I asked the Promotion Department of Playboy Records if I could get a copy of "Just As Bad As You" by Shawne Jackson. They sent another one to the radio station.
I was the Music Director of WBWC back in the 1974-1976 years. I asked the Promotion Department of Playboy Records if I could get a copy of "Just As Bad As You" by Shawne Jackson. They sent another one to the radio station.
In Canada, the CRTC has to grant permission to change formats as the format is part of a Canadian license. Therefore the new owner has to prove another format for CKWW would be financially viable, is needed in the market and is not duplicated. Granted, Windsorites can hear classic hits out of Detroit, but to the CRTC, that's not Canadian.
This is what put an end to the CKLW era when they refused to allow the top 40 format to migrate to 93.9 FM because top 40 was not allowed on Canadian FM stations at that time. Ironically, 93.9 today is Bell Media top 40 Virgin Radio.
This is what put an end to the CKLW era when they refused to allow the top 40 format to migrate to 93.9 FM because top 40 was not allowed on Canadian FM stations at that time. Ironically, 93.9 today is Bell Media top 40 Virgin Radio.
So before it became a Virgin radio station, it was screwed by the CRTC?
Yes, I believe the 93.9 CKLW-FM screw job occurred in 1984 if memory serves correctly. Ownership at the time wanted to flip the station to a Top 40 format called "The Fox." The CRTC only allowed the station to run that programming for one hour daily.
93.9's signal in Metro Detroit is decent but suffers from intermod in spots, primarily in the near northern suburbs where many powerful FM signals are clustered.
Bell Media permanently closed its Metro Detroit sales office & broadcast studios in 2016 and has focused exclusively on attracting advertising from Canada ever since. Regardless of music format programmed, 93.9 never developed a large following in SE Michigan, but sister station 89X was quite popular during the 00s and early 2010s. In fact, 89X was frequently a top 3 station in P18-34 as well as top 3 in a number of male-only demos in the early 2010s. Their former morning show - Dave & Chuck - scored as high as #2 in Men 25-54 AQH share in the Detroit book despite broadcasting from Windsor, ON (some other dayparts on 89X did broadcast from the U.S. for many years, possibly in violation of CRTC rules). When that popular morning show bolted to WRIF (receiving a massive pay increase in the process), 89X's numbers in the U.S. collapsed very quickly. An ill-advised music adjustment in 2014 or 2015, where 89X pivoted to a very indie/pop influenced sound, sent the numbers even further into the ground.
Twenty years ago, it was not uncommon to see 580 CKWW grab about a 1.5 share in the Detroit book (ages 12+, pre-PPM). In the 1990s, they scored well into the 2's. It was the station of choice for many senior citizens. Back then, the format was Adult Standards.
In recent years, Bell Media's AM & FM stations in Windsor have been marred by a plethora of technical issues. Once the dominant commercial FM stations in Windsor, 88.7 and 93.9 now regularly lose to Blackburn Media's CHYR, CJWF and CKUE. I will say 93.9 to my ear is reasonably well programmed. 88.7 on the other hand is a pretty boring listen.
Unlike CKWW, which suffers from a mediocre to terrible signal across at least one-half of the Metro Detroit market, the stations Neeti Ray is purchasing in Hamilton, ON appear to have great signals across not just Hamilton but the entire Greater Toronto Area 24/7. The fact CKWW, CHAM and CKOC as a combo are being purchased for less than $500k in total serves as further proof the AM band is on death's doorstep as a mainstream broadcast medium.
93.9's signal in Metro Detroit is decent but suffers from intermod in spots, primarily in the near northern suburbs where many powerful FM signals are clustered.
Bell Media permanently closed its Metro Detroit sales office & broadcast studios in 2016 and has focused exclusively on attracting advertising from Canada ever since. Regardless of music format programmed, 93.9 never developed a large following in SE Michigan, but sister station 89X was quite popular during the 00s and early 2010s. In fact, 89X was frequently a top 3 station in P18-34 as well as top 3 in a number of male-only demos in the early 2010s. Their former morning show - Dave & Chuck - scored as high as #2 in Men 25-54 AQH share in the Detroit book despite broadcasting from Windsor, ON (some other dayparts on 89X did broadcast from the U.S. for many years, possibly in violation of CRTC rules). When that popular morning show bolted to WRIF (receiving a massive pay increase in the process), 89X's numbers in the U.S. collapsed very quickly. An ill-advised music adjustment in 2014 or 2015, where 89X pivoted to a very indie/pop influenced sound, sent the numbers even further into the ground.
Twenty years ago, it was not uncommon to see 580 CKWW grab about a 1.5 share in the Detroit book (ages 12+, pre-PPM). In the 1990s, they scored well into the 2's. It was the station of choice for many senior citizens. Back then, the format was Adult Standards.
In recent years, Bell Media's AM & FM stations in Windsor have been marred by a plethora of technical issues. Once the dominant commercial FM stations in Windsor, 88.7 and 93.9 now regularly lose to Blackburn Media's CHYR, CJWF and CKUE. I will say 93.9 to my ear is reasonably well programmed. 88.7 on the other hand is a pretty boring listen.
Unlike CKWW, which suffers from a mediocre to terrible signal across at least one-half of the Metro Detroit market, the stations Neeti Ray is purchasing in Hamilton, ON appear to have great signals across not just Hamilton but the entire Greater Toronto Area 24/7. The fact CKWW, CHAM and CKOC as a combo are being purchased for less than $500k in total serves as further proof the AM band is on death's doorstep as a mainstream broadcast medium.
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What else can these second-tier AM stations in major urban areas do? Many of the big signal stations are down the shutes (look at WJR's current Detroit ratings!), so imagine the challenges of these second-tier AM stations. Religion, foreign language, right wing talk or Bloomberg Business. That's about it. Even the sports format has pretty much migrated to FM.
VintageMac
Banned
It's nearly impossible to receive. What lakeshore communities are you referring to?
You can always listen online as I do which sounds pretty decent and has a good mix similar to WIXY1260 Online:
You can also listen in your own music player like iTunes/Music by locating the streaming address which in this case is:
Also, for those who want more of the same, Big 8 Radio has the original CKLW jingles etc.:
Big 8 Radio - Classic Hits from The Motor City!
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Big8Radio.com is programmed and owned by Charlie O'Brien, as CKWW used to be programmed by him. I had listened a lot to CKWW at work, and it was interesting to hear it "like a local"while I was in Windsor for the Rosalie Trombley events.It's nearly impossible to receive. What lakeshore communities are you referring to?
You can always listen online as I do which sounds pretty decent and has a good mix similar to WIXY1260 Online:
You can also listen in your own music player like iTunes/Music by locating the streaming address which in this case is:
Also, for those who want more of the same, Big 8 Radio has the original CKLW jingles etc.:
Big 8 Radio - Classic Hits from The Motor City!
www.big8radio.com
Pat Holiday designed the format for the aborted CFXX "94 Fox FM" to be top 40 sounding but still compliant with all the CanCon, Hit/Nonhit ratios and other regulations. It couldn't be a strict top 40 as the tops hits are restricted to 12 plays a week if I recall. The emphasis would have been on the next upcoming hit in a nutshell.
Seemingly flying in the face of the predictions for AM is CFAJ, classic1220.ca, in St. Catharines, Ontario.
Formerly CHSC, the station went bankrupt, with creditors liquidating the studios, equipment, even the transmitter site. The new owner spent years applying for and rebuilding the 10KW facility which went fulltime this year with an oldies format. This despite the aggressive anti-AM stance the CRTC has taken In smaller markets, like Stratford, where they assign an FM channel to the AM station and give them so many months to build it out and take the AM off air. In Quebec City, all the AMs are gone, replaced by FM signals, and the CBC continues to replace AMs with FMs across the country, although this dosen't mean the AMs go away, i.e. 740 AM "Boomer Radio" Toronto.
Formerly CHSC, the station went bankrupt, with creditors liquidating the studios, equipment, even the transmitter site. The new owner spent years applying for and rebuilding the 10KW facility which went fulltime this year with an oldies format. This despite the aggressive anti-AM stance the CRTC has taken In smaller markets, like Stratford, where they assign an FM channel to the AM station and give them so many months to build it out and take the AM off air. In Quebec City, all the AMs are gone, replaced by FM signals, and the CBC continues to replace AMs with FMs across the country, although this dosen't mean the AMs go away, i.e. 740 AM "Boomer Radio" Toronto.
CFZM 740 has had an FM translator for a few years now
The CRTC isn't anti-AM, in fact, they did what the FCC should have done in the 1980s instead of Docket 80-90 amd migrated class C and D AMs onto the FM dial as class As instead of polluting the dial with unprofitable signals.
For a station like CFZM, it's owned as a plaything by Moses Znamier (founder of ChumCity and a broadcast legend) who has nothing to prove. As soon as he tires of it or passes away, CFZM likely will go away or go with a specialty ethnic format.
As for CKWW, it's hardly a surprise. Rogers gave up on CIWW in Ottawa after a century of operation because it couldn't compete against Bell's talker CFRA and CBC Radio One. How would a tiny AM only orienting toward the Canadian side of the market be able to compete in a border market?
For a station like CFZM, it's owned as a plaything by Moses Znamier (founder of ChumCity and a broadcast legend) who has nothing to prove. As soon as he tires of it or passes away, CFZM likely will go away or go with a specialty ethnic format.
As for CKWW, it's hardly a surprise. Rogers gave up on CIWW in Ottawa after a century of operation because it couldn't compete against Bell's talker CFRA and CBC Radio One. How would a tiny AM only orienting toward the Canadian side of the market be able to compete in a border market?
I'd be surprised if CKLW is operating at full power anyway or has a well-maintained ground system. With a format only aimed at the Windsor metro, such a big signal feels... unnecessary?
With the noise issues, not necessarily. Having been there recently, WJR and CKLW blast in equally and that's probably to CKLW's advantage. I believe they replaced the towers maybe in the early 00s. CKWW with the oldies format still pretends to be "The Motor City" but obviously metro coverage is very limited.
I was actually surprised at the present-day CKLW's involvement in the Rosalie Trombley statue medication and the corresponding Open Streets Windsor (named The Big 8 Kilometer). The CKLW morning team (Mike and Lisa) emceed the event and the afternoon personality emceed a panel of former Big 8 personalities. To make you feel old, Mike and Lisa celebrated 50 years hosting the morning show that week.
The CRTC and the FCC seem quite opposite when it comes to cross-border broadcasting. The CRTC never liked Canadian stations targeting US audiences and vintage CKLW was the biggest offender they set their sights on.
The FCC, not so much. They allow several US stations in small border towns to target larger nearby Canadian cities like Kingston, Ottawa and Montreal, even changing signal, studio locations and sales offices to better serve the Canadian markets. And now the FCC is allowing Canadians to own these stations.
The advantages are obvious, a small station becomes a big market player and for Canadians there are fewer or no rules about music, format, local program requirements, commercial limits, and that makes them more competitive there. And the FCC doesn't get too hepped up if a Canadian station has an American audience like CKLW did or more recently a hip-hop station in Niagara Falls, Ontario that does well in Buffalo.
The FCC, not so much. They allow several US stations in small border towns to target larger nearby Canadian cities like Kingston, Ottawa and Montreal, even changing signal, studio locations and sales offices to better serve the Canadian markets. And now the FCC is allowing Canadians to own these stations.
The advantages are obvious, a small station becomes a big market player and for Canadians there are fewer or no rules about music, format, local program requirements, commercial limits, and that makes them more competitive there. And the FCC doesn't get too hepped up if a Canadian station has an American audience like CKLW did or more recently a hip-hop station in Niagara Falls, Ontario that does well in Buffalo.
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