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CKWW 580 oldies to South Asian?

Santa fe said:
CanCon is essentially what killed CKLW 800 as a significant hit making powerhouse in the U.S., along with other rules that torpedoed it broadcasting to a non-Canadian audience.
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From everything I have heard from people who worked there and competed against CKLW during its Top-40 days, that is largely a misconception. CKLW helped break plenty of Canadian artists into the US market, including Gordon Lightfoot and Anne Murray. Granted, CKLW may have had an easier time competing in Detroit despite Canadian content regulations due to Detroit having earlier flight to the suburbs than most large cities, and CKLW was the only AM Top-40 station that effectively covered the entire metro area 24/7. WCAR covered enough it could probably have been successful, but its ownership didn't want to put the money into the programming and promotions sides. WJR could cover the entire metro but didn't air Top-40, at least not around the clock.

What really killed CKLW as a Top-40 station was FM finally catching on and reaching critical mass. Detroit had several FM Top-40 stations when no other AM on the US side was doing the format, and they ultimately forced CKLW out of the format. Efforts to save the Top-40 format by moving it to 93.9 failed, and CKLW gave up the effort in the mid-80's.
 
Kent said:
From everything I have heard from people who worked there and competed against CKLW during its Top-40 days, that is largely a misconception. CKLW helped break plenty of Canadian artists into the US market, including Gordon Lightfoot and Anne Murray. Granted, CKLW may have had an easier time competing in Detroit despite Canadian content regulations due to Detroit having earlier flight to the suburbs than most large cities, and CKLW was the only AM Top-40 station that effectively covered the entire metro area 24/7. WCAR covered enough it could probably have been successful, but its ownership didn't want to put the money into the programming and promotions sides. WJR could cover the entire metro but didn't air Top-40, at least not around the clock.

What really killed CKLW as a Top-40 station was FM finally catching on and reaching critical mass. Detroit had several FM Top-40 stations when no other AM on the US side was doing the format, and they ultimately forced CKLW out of the format. Efforts to save the Top-40 format by moving it to 93.9 failed, and CKLW gave up the effort in the mid-80's.
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Rosalie did her best and there are plenty of articles and videos about her golden ears and savvy, competing in what was very much a man's world. She broke "These Eyes" by the Guess Who in 1969, before Can-con. The band had driven in a van from Edmonton to take Rosalie to lunch. (Burton spoke at her statue dedication last year.) There were some occasions where Rosalie had to play stiffs. FM was the primary reason for The Big 8's demise. Ironically, the CRTC wouldn't let CFXX get off the ground (Pat Holiday designed a format that met all the requirements), now though, 93.9 is top 40.
 
IIRC, The CRTC was real nit-picky in letting particular music formats onto FM radio, or any format changes for that matter, maybe not as iron-clad as they were back then. More Top-40 stations were found on AM stations in Canada than in the US in the late-80s and early 90s. So in a sense, they tried to keep AM radio viable while in the US, AM radio was going to more non-music formats (religious, sports, talk, etc...)

From what I heard about CKLW, they used every loophole in the book to fufill every CRTC/CanCon requirement thrown at them. For example, when CKLW finally got approval to air an oldies format on FM in the mid-late 80s, one requirement was to air a certain amount of instrumentals in a broadcast day. So every night at 10pm, they would air a solid hour of random instrumentals that fit the format,....BUT only run them for the shortest amount of time (appx. 60-seconds worth) for it to count towards the CRTC quotas, then move on to the next instrumental. They also ran these instrumentals under live reads, weather and traffic reports at the top and bottom of the hours during the day until the minimum time was reached, then they played the Legal ID and went back to the real music.

You can see how these "loopholes" could be found in the MAPL rules of Canadian Content music here: The MAPL system uses music, artist, lyrics and performance to define Canadian songs | CRTC. and as to why CKLW kept the Big 8 Sound using an oldies format.

Most other Canadian stations probably didn't want to jump through all those extra hoops -- mainly because they weren't in competition with US stations that didn't have to follow CRTC/MAPL Guidelines.
 
Fortunately, perhaps in some part due to CanCon, there is a lot of good music in all genres being made by Canadians today and much of it is successful in the U.S. so the difference is not as apparent as 50 years ago. That is the slight disadvantage the Canadian classic hits stations have.

Unless either country puts up some kind of RF border wall, there will always be a certain amount of cross border listening, although maybe not quite as commercially successful as The Big 8 was in the day. A different situation on the southern border, where it has been going on for generations.
 
thenetwork said:
IIRC, The CRTC was real nit-picky in letting particular music formats onto FM radio, or any format changes for that matter, maybe not as iron-clad as they were back then. More Top-40 stations were found on AM stations in Canada than in the US in the late-80s and early 90s. So in a sense, they tried to keep AM radio viable while in the US, AM radio was going to more non-music formats (religious, sports, talk, etc...)

From what I heard about CKLW, they used every loophole in the book to fufill every CRTC/CanCon requirement thrown at them. For example, when CKLW finally got approval to air an oldies format on FM in the mid-late 80s, one requirement was to air a certain amount of instrumentals in a broadcast day. So every night at 10pm, they would air a solid hour of random instrumentals that fit the format,....BUT only run them for the shortest amount of time (appx. 60-seconds worth) for it to count towards the CRTC quotas, then move on to the next instrumental. They also ran these instrumentals under live reads, weather and traffic reports at the top and bottom of the hours during the day until the minimum time was reached, then they played the Legal ID and went back to the real music.

You can see how these "loopholes" could be found in the MAPL rules of Canadian Content music here: The MAPL system uses music, artist, lyrics and performance to define Canadian songs | CRTC. and as to why CKLW kept the Big 8 Sound using an oldies format.

Most other Canadian stations probably didn't want to jump through all those extra hoops -- mainly because they weren't in competition with US stations that didn't have to follow CRTC/MAPL Guidelines.
Click to expand...
I hadn't heard about the hour of instrumentals. CKLW originally tried to truncate the non-hit Can-con into 60 seconds but the CRTC said there would be none of that. More recently a programmer in Canada, noting the propensity of young people to flip quickly through songs, came up with a format that played abbreviated versions of the hits. Verse, chorus, verse, chorus and out. No long bridges or long intros. He would not have made Cancon songs any shorter than U.S or European songs, but the CRTC said nothing doing.
 
thenetwork said:
A long time ago, when one could go into a Camelot Music and peruse their aisles of CDs, I had purchased some "budget" oldies compilation CDs. They were made/manufactured in Canada under the Madacy label. Most of the tracks on the CD were "resung" by at least one member of the original band, although that was not implied on the outer cover of the CDs "Original Songs By The Original Artists" claim.

Given that the CRTC's Canadian Content laws limit the amount of American (or elsewhere) made songs heard on the Canadian stations, some artists would record in Canada to earn enough of the CanCon MAPL requirements to give it a better chance to be played more often in Canada.

Perhaps some of these re-sings qualified as CanCon. Not sure if being recorded for Madacy, etal, counts toward earning that status, though, but it's plausible.
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Yuck, Madacy CDs! I cringe and roll my eyes whenever I stumble upon them. They pop up fairly frequently at thrifts and Goodwill stores!
 
Kent said:
From everything I have heard from people who worked there and competed against CKLW during its Top-40 days, that is largely a misconception. CKLW helped break plenty of Canadian artists into the US market, including Gordon Lightfoot and Anne Murray. Granted, CKLW may have had an easier time competing in Detroit despite Canadian content regulations due to Detroit having earlier flight to the suburbs than most large cities, and CKLW was the only AM Top-40 station that effectively covered the entire metro area 24/7. WCAR covered enough it could probably have been successful, but its ownership didn't want to put the money into the programming and promotions sides. WJR could cover the entire metro but didn't air Top-40, at least not around the clock.

What really killed CKLW as a Top-40 station was FM finally catching on and reaching critical mass. Detroit had several FM Top-40 stations when no other AM on the US side was doing the format, and they ultimately forced CKLW out of the format. Efforts to save the Top-40 format by moving it to 93.9 failed, and CKLW gave up the effort in the mid-80's.
Click to expand...
I recall that "Keener 13" (WKNR 1310) was CKLW's big Detroit AM top 40 competition years ago, but their night signal was very tight and did not reach a big chunk of the metro.
 
The larger competitor back then was WXYZ 1270, an ABC O&O. And at one time or another, Top 40 was on WJBK 1500, a Storer property, and WCAR 1130.
My memory recalls that WDRQ 93.1 may have been Detroit's first FM Top 40, but I am not sure.
 
gr8oldies said:
I hadn't heard about the hour of instrumentals. CKLW originally tried to truncate the non-hit Can-con into 60 seconds but the CRTC said there would be none of that. More recently a programmer in Canada, noting the propensity of young people to flip quickly through songs, came up with a format that played abbreviated versions of the hits. Verse, chorus, verse, chorus and out. No long bridges or long intros. He would not have made Cancon songs any shorter than U.S or European songs, but the CRTC said nothing doing.
Click to expand...
I lived in Toledo at the time and CKLW FM was my goto station. They also had a strange hour-long (likely a Canadian specialty show) from 11p to 12mid. I think it was called "Tapestry" and was a show that told tales of fantasy with a few tunes in-between. Definitely did not fit the format. At midnight, it was back to the normal format.

Just like how US required public affairs programming blocks on radio usually get programmed on Sunday mornings or overnight to fulfill the FCC rules, CKLW probably shoved them together in the late night (lower-rated) hours just so they can say they played that day.

And then for some dumb reason, the CRTC in 1988 or 1999 required the call letters to change from CKLW to CKMR (More 94). The station remained at Ouelette @ Tecumseh and the jocks and the format were exactly the same (the 2 oddball shows may have been gone by then).

Then sometime before they changed to The River in the 1990s and ditched the oldies altogether, they called themselves I-94 (as a nod to Detroit's Freeway) and again to CKLW-FM, though I don't remember which order they were in after the More 94 days.
 
tblanks said:
Cleveland area daytime rimshot CKWW/580 has finally been officially sold off and the new owner has radio stations with the "South Asian" ethnic format. Is it likely CKWW follows suit or stays as is?
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It's no wonder they no longer have an internet feed any more. I hate to see this happening. They played a great selection!
 
1Doug1 said:
It's no wonder they no longer have an internet feed any more. I hate to see this happening. They played a great selection!
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The "new" CKWW has an internet feed/page:

www.am580ckww.com

AM580 CKWW

Music You Grew Up Withck
www.am580ckww.com www.am580ckww.com

The old one was on iHeart but that is gone.

As others have mentioned, The Big 8 is a good choice for oldies:

Big 8 Radio - Classic Hits from The Motor City!

www.big8radio.com www.big8radio.com

Also, WIXY1260Online:

wixy1260online.com

WIXY1260Online | Home

Cleveland Ohio's WIXY 1260 AM, is now WIXY1260Online! Streaming Internet Radio 24/7/365, from Cleveland, Ohio, we are the home of the largest variety of oldies music from the 60's and 70's!
wixy1260online.com wixy1260online.com
 
I remember listening to CKLW's fm in Ohio one morning and wondering what was up. Thy would duplicate the AM Drake format ( not simulcast but duplicated ) then suddenly switch to an entire different format around noon or so. Maybe later say four hours or so go back to the morning format again. I learned it was due to Canadian laws. They never were able to do on FM what worked so well on AM and eventually the AM format went away.
 
Saul the Iguana Killer said:
Yuck, Madacy CDs! I cringe and roll my eyes whenever I stumble upon them. They pop up fairly frequently at thrifts and Goodwill stores!
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I got into an argument with my mom many years ago because she wanted to buy one of those Madacy compilation box sets at Best Buy. I kept telling her that these are bad re-recordings, and her response was that "Oh, that's probably how they were transferred over to the CD". I eventually got her to change her mind and not waste her money. Also, back in the mid 90s', my dad bought one of those Madacy 3 disc box sets, and had plans to buy a 3 disc changer in order to play all of these discs at once. Being a kid at the time and already hearing most of the songs included in that box set on the radio, I could tell that something was not right. Somewhere I heard that this was done because the original sources at the time for many of these songs were in bad condition and couldn't be used, and re-recording was the only way to get around this problem. I'm not sure if that was the case, but using the original tape masters along with modern remastering has mostly overcome this problem within the last 20 some years. Only a couple re-recordings that I've come across actually sound close to the original recording and are very convincing.

And yes, I do come across these Madacy albums at thrift stores...take a guess as to why they are there.😄 If I find that Madacy logo on the back of the album, it's back on the shelf it goes. Also, if the album states that it's "made in Canada" without a Madacy logo, chances are that it contains re-recordings. If the album contains no artist info on the song listings, they are most likely cover versions.

 
snowdog88 said:
I got into an argument with my mom many years ago because she wanted to buy one of those Madacy compilation box sets at Best Buy. I kept telling her that these are bad re-recordings, and her response was that "Oh, that's probably how they were transferred over to the CD". I eventually got her to change her mind and not waste her money. Also, back in the mid 90s', my dad bought one of those Madacy 3 disc box sets, and had plans to buy a 3 disc changer in order to play all of these discs at once. Being a kid at the time and already hearing most of the songs included in that box set on the radio, I could tell that something was not right. Somewhere I heard that this was done because the original sources at the time for many of these songs were in bad condition and couldn't be used, and re-recording was the only way to get around this problem. I'm not sure if that was the case, but using the original tape masters along with modern remastering has mostly overcome this problem within the last 20 some years. Only a couple re-recordings that I've come across actually sound close to the original recording and are very convincing.

And yes, I do come across these Madacy albums at thrift stores...take a guess as to why they are there.😄 If I find that Madacy logo on the back of the album, it's back on the shelf it goes. Also, if the album states that it's "made in Canada" without a Madacy logo, chances are that it contains re-recordings. If the album contains no artist info on the song listings, they are most likely cover versions.

Click to expand...
I have a number of Madacy CDs. But they're all classical & easy listening. Decent stuff for casual pleasure background listening in the car or at home.
 
snowdog88 said:
I got into an argument with my mom many years ago because she wanted to buy one of those Madacy compilation box sets at Best Buy. I kept telling her that these are bad re-recordings, and her response was that "Oh, that's probably how they were transferred over to the CD". I eventually got her to change her mind and not waste her money. Also, back in the mid 90s', my dad bought one of those Madacy 3 disc box sets, and had plans to buy a 3 disc changer in order to play all of these discs at once. Being a kid at the time and already hearing most of the songs included in that box set on the radio, I could tell that something was not right. Somewhere I heard that this was done because the original sources at the time for many of these songs were in bad condition and couldn't be used, and re-recording was the only way to get around this problem. I'm not sure if that was the case, but using the original tape masters along with modern remastering has mostly overcome this problem within the last 20 some years. Only a couple re-recordings that I've come across actually sound close to the original recording and are very convincing.

And yes, I do come across these Madacy albums at thrift stores...take a guess as to why they are there.😄 If I find that Madacy logo on the back of the album, it's back on the shelf it goes. Also, if the album states that it's "made in Canada" without a Madacy logo, chances are that it contains re-recordings. If the album contains no artist info on the song listings, they are most likely cover versions.

Click to expand...
The Time-Life sets were the authentic versions
 
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