Classic Hits 80s

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Not so fast, there David. I specifically recall WHBQ in Memphis doing "oldie but goodie" weekends, so not everyone was afraid of the term. I seem to recall that they also referred to many of them as "songs you grew up with" or something like that.

The context of the beginning of this food-fight was someone saying that in 1961, 1962 or 1963.... that songs that went to the top of the chart in 1956, 1957 and 1958 we Oldies, Golden Oldes, or The music you grew up with.

Most of us in radio back then were not yet aware of listener demographics as we know them today. Even when we were working a rock station we assumed we had adult listeners... including the owners of retail businesses that would be buying our advertising.

Yes, the "smart people" in some markets (the Storz folks, the McLendon Folks, and a little later the Bill Drake phenomenon would figure all of that out.)

In 1956 to even 1963 an awful lot of radio was still into Block Programming. At stations where I worked, the owner might quit selling long enough to come work a couple of hours on the air when some one needed to be off, and then we would hear chatter about Old Favorites and "Evergreens" and "music from when you were growing up." And we would get Jimmy Dorsey or maybe Glenn Miller or The Andrews Sisters.

In that era what you got in Lubbock TX was different than what you got in steel mill cities like Pittsburgh and different that what you got in Philadelphia. For part of that time period I was based between Memphis and Little Rock. Those two cities could be like two different worlds when it came to radio.

Everybody is getting their undies much to bunched up because they grew up in places like Great Bend KS and Roanoke, VA and Macon GA and they have very accurate memories of radio worked!!!! (where they were!)

 

[vchimpanzee]

How did older (20-plus) listeners, the ones who loved Elvis as kids, react to the British Invasion, anyway? Was Top 40 radio strictly for kids and teens back then? Did most people start listening to MOR in their early 20s? Or did they just adjust to the sea change in popular music -- and subsequent ones -- and keep listening into their 30s? I was 8 when the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan, and started listening to Top 40 radio pretty heavily in 1966. I kept listening through psychedelia, mellow singer/songwriters, disco, New Wave, and MTV. Rap was the change that finally ended the love affair; I was in my mid-30s then. Did the listeners who were in their early 20s in 1964 continue to listen into the '70s or did many of them not accept the new British sounds at all?

I read somewhere that while Top 40 was for teenagers in the 70s, people in their 30s liked "beautiful music". I didn't seriously think people listened to that, but that it was just used as background music. But I sure did like it, even as a teenager in the 70s, when I heard it in a business.

 

[vchimpanzee]

You are SERIOUSLY overthinking this. If we followed this logic, then Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms would have NO fans because their music is 200 years old, and all their fans would have long since died right along with them.

I heard somewhere that Arnold Schwarznegger will be starring as a great German composer. The tagline will be "I'll be Bach."

 

[vchimpanzee]

We shouldn't forget that lots of people over the past four or five decades listened to radio stations that played vintage music. The idea that people only like the music that was brand new while they were in high school is ridiculous. Even back in the 1960's when the only stations available to listen to were Top 40 outlets on the AM band,

Now this was never true, as the parents had to be listening to something.

 

[vchimpanzee]

"Oldies" is a dated term, mostly a "boomer" expression. "Old school" is a better term for today. "Throwback" is also quite used.

"Old school" seems to be used mainly with black music. Charlotte has a radio station that actually calls itself Old School, and its latest 12-plus ratings were better this last report than the longtime urban AC.

 

[Avid Listener]

Radio / Music fans vs. the "Experts"

I think on these boards ever since it's inception in 2005, the "experts" have been trying to outdo us every time. According to them, we're usually wrong, whether it's ratings, playlists, rotations, programming methods, and now oldies played in the 60's on top 40 stations, this and that....etc...etc... There's always a reason contrary to our beliefs and experiences. It's gotten old. We are right. They may think not, but we are.

They don't realize that WE have recollections of what happened THEN too. If it worked in the 1960's or 70's, it can work today. But then again, tell NASA that, 1969 was eons ago.

Aahhhh, only 38 more posts........

Yep. For example, if we post something about how we like one particular station, and won't change to a different format station just because of one song, the standard song-and-dance is "but people listen to more than just one kind of station". But, if people listening to more than one station doesn't support their narrow little view of reality, then we get anal-retentive crap about which stations play what old songs, and how old they are, ad nauseum.

And I have mentioned this point over and over during the last decade in different threads. Young people who listened to Top 40 in most markets got exposed to, at least, fairly recent gold. In some markets, they heard things that might be as much as a decade old. In other markets, and in certain executions of Top 40, no gold at all was played. For example, Mike Joseph's Hot Hits in the late 70's and into the 80's played no gold at all, and was really limited on recurrents.

The point being that people in certain markets and from certain markets did not necessarily all have exposure to the same songs. Until the late 70's, there was no library testing so each station went by ear on what to play and what not to play. With the extreme mobility of the American population, particularly in those years, you had huge percentages of the populations living in places where they did not grow up and they had different familiarities with gold based on what their teen years exposed them to.

See what I mean? I've finally decided I've had as much of his pompous pontificating as I can handle, so he's joining others who are just too hard to bear on my Ignore List. It's not like he has anything of importance to add to the discussions. I frankly don't need any more pedantic nitpicking, no matter how experienced the pedantic nitpicker might be.

 

[Avid Listener]

I read somewhere that while Top 40 was for teenagers in the 70s, people in their 30s liked "beautiful music". I didn't seriously think people listened to that, but that it was just used as background music. But I sure did like it, even as a teenager in the 70s, when I heard it in a business.

Any time anyone makes a blanket statement that assumes everyone of any given age listens to the same genre of music, chances are it's wrong.

 

[Avid Listener]

Now this was never true, as the parents had to be listening to something.

When the parents were listening to their stuff, we kids did our best to ignore them or leave the room. We weren't always successful, but we usually tried. There's also a big difference between actually listening to something, and only having it playing as an annoyance in the background.

 

[semoochie]

There was a time when Beautiful Music got top ratings even among 18-34 year-olds, not exactly an upper demo. When I was a kid and later, a young adult, on vacation and most places only had AM, there were places that only had one station and unless it was block programmed, it had a specific format. There were plenty of Top 40 stations in these places. I have no idea if the adults were listening or not. Sometimes, the station would be geared to adults and I'd just have to wait it out.

 

[davideduardo]

"Old school" seems to be used mainly with black music. Charlotte has a radio station that actually calls itself Old School, and its latest 12-plus ratings were better this last report than the longtime urban AC.

"Old school" and "throwback" are used pretty much by everyone under 35. "Oldie" is not a term they use unless they mean "ancient".

 

[davideduardo]

There was a time when Beautiful Music got top ratings even among 18-34 year-olds, not exactly an upper demo. When I was a kid and later, a young adult, on vacation and most places only had AM, there were places that only had one station and unless it was block programmed, it had a specific format. There were plenty of Top 40 stations in these places. I have no idea if the adults were listening or not. Sometimes, the station would be geared to adults and I'd just have to wait it out.

I looked at the ratings from Spring, 1977 and the 18-34 rankers. I could not find very few Beautiful Music stations that was even in the top 5 in that age range. 35-54, often #1... but not in 18-34. One of there rare ones was WLKW in Providence, which was #4 mostly due to the fact it had nearly a 20 share in 12+. But in markets from Phoenix to LA to Miami, there were few others.

You can see the ratings for the period at http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Duncan-American-Radio/Duncan-1977-Spring.pdf

 

[davideduardo]

Not so fast, there David. I specifically recall WHBQ in Memphis doing "oldie but goodie" weekends, so not everyone was afraid of the term. I seem to recall that they also referred to many of them as "songs you grew up with" or something like that.

I believe that WHBQ was one of the stations that got C&D orders from Original Sound Records when they were discovered using the term. Art Laboe's company has it registered as a trademark.

And, I said that Top 40's "generally" did not like to use the term because it repositioned them in respect to their current music image.

I recall visiting WFUN in Miami at the height of the WQAM / WFUN Top 40 battle around 1967. PD Dick Starr had a sign in the studio that said that "oldies" "golden oldie" "way back then" and similar terms were forbidden. I remember because I immediately did the same thing at my own Top 40 station.

 

[oldies76]

See what I mean? I've finally decided I've had as much of his pompous pontificating as I can handle, so he's joining others who are just too hard to bear on my Ignore List. It's not like he has anything of importance to add to the discussions. I frankly don't need any more pedantic nitpicking, no matter how experienced the pedantic nitpicker might be.

Frankly, it'll all be for naught sooner than later, because once classic hits stations like KRTH and others eliminate what few songs they play to begin with and advance to the 90's and 00's for classics, very few will listen and these "nitpickers" will have wished they'd done the right thing, back in the day (2014) for music choices.

In other words.....who cares anymore. We have better sources for music anyways, more music than these guys could ever wish for.

T-33

 

[davideduardo]

We're talking radio, not social issues.

No, I am talking about what used to be is not necessarily what exists now. Peoples attitudes towards music, social issues, food, war and fashion change over time. You are stuck wanting a re-creation of the full gamut of what was played 40 or 50 years ago.

If I recall something that happened way back when, it's certainly and no question 100% accurate, since it involved myself.

I'm glad to know you have perfect recall of dates. I have to look up date references for anything less earth shattering than the moon walk or the Kennedy Assassination.

Radio fans don't really need confirmations, since they already remember it themselves, by their own minds. Memory (and memories) are a great thing. Everyone has their own personal recollections of music and everyone's (I repeat again...EVERYONE'S) is different, something after a decade of posting, you and your RD buddies still cannot grasp.

Your problem here is that you think the year makes a difference. 60's songs have all but disappeared from classic hits stations not because they are from the 60's but because the target listener group of about 35-54 does not score them as attractive or likable. They also do the same by negatively scoring lots of 70's and 80's songs the same way. Times change, taste changes and things we used to like we hate now. Like, well, I don't wear bell bottom pants any longer....

 

[davideduardo]

Frankly, it'll all be for naught sooner than later, because once classic hits stations like KRTH and others eliminate what few songs they play to begin with and advance to the 90's and 00's for classics, very few will listen and these "nitpickers" will have wished they'd done the right thing, back in the day (2014) for music choices.

And that is as it should be. Stations update their playlists to keep within the tastes of the target audience. KRTH has always been a 25-54 station, and it has moved over the years to reflect the tastes of the current set of 25-54's.

You really need to understand that stations can't play songs that mostly appeal to over-55 seniors as there is no ad money out there for that kind of station.

 

[davideduardo]

I think on these boards ever since it's inception in 2005, the "experts" have been trying to outdo us every time.

First, this board dates back well before 2005. Participants could register with "handles" 11 to 12 years ago, thus the 2003 date on my current user name.

Second, the radio professionals have not been trying to "outdo" anyone. From what I see across many boards, the professionals have been trying to explain how radio works and answer the questions of those who don't see why their favorite jock was fired or why some of their favorite songs are no longer played or why New York City has no Active Rock or Alternative Rock station.

You, sir, just don't want to accept that the facts and reality don't support your wishes and desires.

According to them, we're usually wrong, whether it's ratings, playlists, rotations, programming methods, and now oldies played in the 60's on top 40 stations, this and that....etc...etc...

Would it not be natural that someone inside the industry, who has actually programmed stations and who has played the songs you seem to like when they were currents would know about:

1. Ratings. We are and have been subscribers... some of us for 5 decades or more. We've been to Arbitron, Pulse, Birch and other ratings company seminars and been to conferences and conventions.

2. Playlists. We made them. Every week, for decades in some cases. We know whether they are factual or arbitrary and why they were done as they were.

3. Rotations. We did color coded clocks, then card files and then Selector and Music Scan and on and on. We go back to when we calculated rotations by hand because there were no electronic calculators.

4. Programming methods. We actually programmed stations. Some of us had top rated, widely respected stations because our methods worked.

5. Oldies played in the 60's. If we programmed Top 40, read Gavin and did networking we are very qualified to comment on the music and the programming of that era.

There's always a reason contrary to our beliefs and experiences. It's gotten old. We are right. They may think not, but we are.

It's basically our facts and reality vs. your dreams and fantasies and lack of knowledge about running and programming a statin.

If it worked in the 1960's or 70's, it can work today.

In radio, nearly nothing that worked in the 60's works today... different ratings systems, different usage of radio, different sets of competitors.

 

[Avid Listener]

Frankly, it'll all be for naught sooner than later, because once classic hits stations like KRTH and others eliminate what few songs they play to begin with and advance to the 90's and 00's for classics, very few will listen and these "nitpickers" will have wished they'd done the right thing, back in the day (2014) for music choices.

In other words.....who cares anymore. We have better sources for music anyways, more music than these guys could ever wish for.

T-33

Good point. There were some notable station moves here in Atlanta recently, so I made it a point to tune in a few of the ones with new formats to check them out. None were worth using a station preset button for. But, on the plus side, a friend gave me a treasure trove of MP3s he burned from his old vinyl LPs! I now have the "Jefferson Airplane Takes Off" and Blues Project's "Projections", plus many, many others. I also discovered even more really great sounding new artists, like Grace Potter and the Nocturnals and Audra Mae.

 

[oldies76]

You really need to understand that stations can't play songs that mostly appeal to over-55 seniors as there is no ad money out there for that kind of station.

Well, this has to change. It may never change, but it needs to. 55+ are getting left out and there are great songs that would please them, if there was a way.

 

[oldies76]

It's basically our facts and reality vs. your dreams and fantasies and lack of knowledge about running and programming a station.

It's not a fantasy, because some small town and AM radio stations already do it. It's the bigger stations, like KRTH that do not.
So they may not achieve top notch ratings, but at least they are trying. And if I ever ran a small station, guess what....it would have a large playlist, like it should. In my realm, 400 songs will not cut it, 3000+ should, plus great weekends. That is my position.

 

[oldies76]

You are stuck wanting a re-creation of the full gamut of what was played 40 or 50 years ago.

The entire rock and roll era to be exact.