Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[davideduardo]

...radio continued to play some, while ignoring others. So the ones that they have continued to play over all these years are still familiar with listeners, while the ones that they ignored are not. So radio itself was the kingmaker here.

This is simple. The ones radio plays are the ones listeners "vote" favorably on, while the ones not played are ones listeners indicate they do not want to hear on the radio today.

The issue is not about familiarity. It is about the answer to the question, "how much do you want to hear this song on the radio today?"

 

[bigtom101]

So if the Whitburn books are not a "bible" (fair enough), does that mean that Michael and David are prophets?

No...just bright programmers.

 

[davideduardo]

So classic hits stations are being "handed down" songs from other formats.

No. Airplay in different formats between the time a song was a Top 40 / CHR hit and today is irrelevant.

Classic Hits stations look at the volume of pop music within the year range and the "range of experience" of their target audience... usually 35-54. If that group like a song generally, and very few dislike it, it gets played.

It does not matter if the song has also been played on other formats in the intervening time.

So we are basically left with what hasn't already been "cherry-picked" out by the other formats, or otherwise mishandled by them by being overplayed.

You are making the assumption that Classic Hits listeners, prior to "coming of Classic Hits age" listened to stations that played all those pop hits heavily.

 

[firepoint525]

This whole thread is about the evolution of the format. The advertisers don't want people whose peak musical awareness included the Fifth Dimension or the Four Seasons anymore. They are too old. It's 2013 now, and you're hearing less and less Carly Simon and BTO and other early/mid '70s acts in the format because the people whose peak musical awareness included them are approaching, or have reached, the unsellable 55+ demo. The woman born in 1968 is going to be 45 this year. She's probably more likely to be comfortable with Cyndi Lauper and Don Henley on her radio than with Taylor Swift and Bruno Mars. AC's current music mix (except for the rare soft ACs in sleepy, geriatric markets) is for the lower end of 25-54.

Contradiction here. I am not "55+" (yet), but I am over 45. So what do I listen to? Classic rock? Oh we already tried that earlier in this thread. And yet, my "peak musical awareness" is post 5th Dimension, post-Carly Simon, and all that.

Sorry guys, but I am not old enough for WAMB (look it up if you are curious) just yet.

 

[firepoint525]

It does not matter if the song has also been played on other formats in the intervening time.

But if it has not, it will be "forgotten."

So we are basically left with what hasn't already been "cherry-picked" out by the other formats, or otherwise mishandled by them by being overplayed.

You are making the assumption that Classic Hits listeners, prior to "coming of Classic Hits age" listened to stations that played all those pop hits heavily. [/quote]You are making the assumption that they did not. So where else would they have come from? They would have come from formats that worked for them at the time. In their teens, this would be top 40; in their 20s, hot AC; in their 30s, AC; in their 40s, classic hits. But this is just a generalization.

 

[firepoint525]

So if the Whitburn books are not a "bible" (fair enough), does that mean that Michael and David are prophets?

No...just bright programmers.

who obviously DON'T work for "Come-in-last"! : Oh, wait, Come-in-last tried their ideas, yet was constantly switching formats. Never mind!

 

[davideduardo]

It does not matter if the song has also been played on other formats in the intervening time.

But if it has not, it will be "forgotten."

Favorite songs, even if not heard for decades, are not forgotten,

 

[bigtom101]

who obviously DON'T work for "Come-in-last"! : Oh, wait, Come-in-last tried their ideas, yet was constantly switching formats. Never mind!

That is one market, with a certain owner, on a station that had a litany of issues outside of the music selection....look at the stations that are a success that do use music testing - K-Earth, CBS-FM, WOGL, etc.

Look at all the people who imitated Drake without understanding the method and reasoning behind the formatics. They failed, just like 97.1 failed.

 

[firepoint525]

That is one market, with a certain owner, on a station that had a litany of issues outside of the music selection....look at the stations that are a success that do use music testing - K-Earth, CBS-FM, WOGL, etc.

I'm sure that they all do great, but none of them are in my market. Oops! Back to the drawing board!

 

[michael hagerty]

It does not matter if the song has also been played on other formats in the intervening time.

But if it has not, it will be "forgotten."

So we are basically left with what hasn't already been "cherry-picked" out by the other formats, or otherwise mishandled by them by being overplayed.

You are making the assumption that Classic Hits listeners, prior to "coming of Classic Hits age" listened to stations that played all those pop hits heavily.

You are making the assumption that they did not. So where else would they have come from? They would have come from formats that worked for them at the time. In their teens, this would be top 40; in their 20s, hot AC; in their 30s, AC; in their 40s, classic hits. But this is just a generalization.

What's missing is this: The music Classic Hits plays is not, for the most part, the music their target audience listened to when new and carried with them.

Our typical 45 year old was in high school from 1982-1986. Classic Hits isn't there yet. For the most part, the music is still heavily 70s (and at some stations, there's still significant 60s play). The CHR stations of her time didn't play this music. By the time she felt the need to transition to AC, AC had largely blown off these titles (the ones that they played in the first place...remember, AC was largely "Continuous Soft Hits", so a lot of the more upbeat tunes didn't air on AC in the 90s), so she didn't hear them there, either.

The success of Classic Hits, as contrasted to the death throes of Oldies in the last decade, comes from the fact that it's not about memories as much as it is about favorite songs that come from a certain time frame. It also helps explain the far lower burn rate. These people haven't had decades of exposure to these songs. They're relatively fresh to them.

 

[michael hagerty]

So if the Whitburn books are not a "bible" (fair enough), does that mean that Michael and David are prophets?

No...just bright programmers.

who obviously DON'T work for "Come-in-last"! : Oh, wait, Come-in-last tried their ideas, yet was constantly switching formats. Never mind!

Oh...I get it now. "Come-in-last"=Cumulus. Took me a couple of hours.

Nope. Never worked for them.

And they're not our ideas. They're simply solid programming basics.

It's like the foundation of a house. Pour it badly, and everything ends up falling apart. Pour it properly but get the roof wrong, and it's still going to fall in. There are a kajillion ways to screw up a radio station. You can get the foundation right and something (or everything) else wrong and it won't work as well as it should. But if the foundation is wrong, it doesn't matter if everything else is right...it's going to fall down.

 

[firepoint525]

It does not matter if the song has also been played on other formats in the intervening time.

But if it has not, it will be "forgotten."

Favorite songs, even if not heard for decades, are not forgotten,

Well, then, they should have been played on radio all this time, shouldn't they? Circular argument, no?

 

[michael hagerty]

That is one market, with a certain owner, on a station that had a litany of issues outside of the music selection....look at the stations that are a success that do use music testing - K-Earth, CBS-FM, WOGL, etc.

I'm sure that they all do great, but none of them are in my market. Oops! Back to the drawing board!

So, this is about you, and not the format.

 

[firepoint525]

That is one market, with a certain owner, on a station that had a litany of issues outside of the music selection....look at the stations that are a success that do use music testing - K-Earth, CBS-FM, WOGL, etc.

I'm sure that they all do great, but none of them are in my market. Oops! Back to the drawing board!

So, this is about you, and not the format.

If it is a successful format, it should be in ALL markets, no? Yeah, I can listen online, but I thought that this was about convenience. I can just as easily listen to my own music collection, and I often do.

More circular arguments.

 

[michael hagerty]

That is one market, with a certain owner, on a station that had a litany of issues outside of the music selection....look at the stations that are a success that do use music testing - K-Earth, CBS-FM, WOGL, etc.

I'm sure that they all do great, but none of them are in my market. Oops! Back to the drawing board!

So, this is about you, and not the format.

If it is a successful format, it should be in ALL markets, no? Yeah, I can listen online, but I thought that this was about convenience. I can just as easily listen to my own music collection, and I often do.

More circular arguments.

And now we're back in the circle to the previously stated fact that testing is how you determine what songs your audience has in common as songs they love, like or won't tune out. And that testing has to be local, it has to be statistically sound, and you have to meet the audience's expectations 24/7.

There are no successful cookie-cutter formats. The Classic Hits stations that succeed work hard at defining and delivering what the local audience expects from them.

 

[bigtom101]

If it is a successful format, it should be in ALL markets, no? Yeah, I can listen online, but I thought that this was about convenience. I can just as easily listen to my own music collection, and I often do.

More circular arguments.

What works in one market, might not work in another. Look at Houston - hasn't had a classic hits station since 2009, yet supported Oldies 94.5/107.5 for years. Yet in other nearby major markets (San Antonio & D/FW), Classic Hits is thriving....boggles my mind too.

FWIW...the classic hits station where I currently reside I cannot stand. I listen to my own streams or CBS-FM when I am in the car thru my smartphone. Very convenient, and I have no reception issues on major highways (Verizon 4G LTE).

 

[firepoint525]

And now we're back in the circle to the previously stated fact that testing is how you determine what songs your audience has in common as songs they love, like or won't tune out. And that testing has to be local, it has to be statistically sound, and you have to meet the audience's expectations 24/7.
There are no successful cookie-cutter formats. The Classic Hits stations that succeed work hard at defining and delivering what the local audience expects from them.

Looks good, but this flies in the face of these companies (most of whose names start with "C") who want to voice-track all their stations nationwide. Skynyrd obviously plays quite well here, but it is my understanding that they are relatively unheard in NYC.

What works in one market, might not work in another. Look at Houston - hasn't had a classic hits station since 2009, yet supported Oldies 94.5/107.5 for years. Yet in other nearby major markets (San Antonio & D/FW), Classic Hits is thriving....boggles my mind too.
FWIW...the classic hits station where I currently reside I cannot stand. I listen to my own streams or CBS-FM when I am in the car thru my smartphone. Very convenient, and I have no reception issues on major highways (Verizon 4G LTE).

We supposedly cannot support a hot AC here, but the one that we had was owned by Cromwell. Nuff said about that. Meanwhile, our AC has gotten "hotter" in the absence of a hot AC, but is still #1. Go figure.

 

[michael hagerty]

And now we're back in the circle to the previously stated fact that testing is how you determine what songs your audience has in common as songs they love, like or won't tune out. And that testing has to be local, it has to be statistically sound, and you have to meet the audience's expectations 24/7.
There are no successful cookie-cutter formats. The Classic Hits stations that succeed work hard at defining and delivering what the local audience expects from them.

Looks good, but this flies in the face of these companies (most of whose names start with "C") who want to voice-track all their stations nationwide.

Not if the audience is telling them that they simply want a pleasant voice to tell them what they heard, what the kids need to wear tomorrow morning to school and what number to text to win a trip to Hawaii.

And even if they want more personality, sometimes the best jock for the job doesn't happen to live in Harlingen, Texas. And the station couldn't afford him or her as a full-time employee. But that doesn't mean he or she can't be heard there.

Stations (even those owned by companies whose names begin with the third letter of the alphabet) continue to employ live talent on stations and in dayparts where the audience has made it clear they are a welcome addition to the music.

Skynyrd obviously plays quite well here, but it is my understanding that they are relatively unheard in NYC.

Suggesting that local research is being done and applied.

 

[firepoint525]

Not if the audience is telling them that they simply want a pleasant voice to tell them what they heard, what the kids need to wear tomorrow morning to school and what number to text to win a trip to Hawaii.

I can get that information from television, and often better, and sometimes earlier, than I can get it on radio.

And even if they want more personality, sometimes the best jock for the job doesn't happen to live in Harlingen, Texas. And the station couldn't afford him or her as a full-time employee. But that doesn't mean he or she can't be heard there. Stations (even those owned by companies whose names begin with the third letter of the alphabet) continue to employ live talent on stations and in dayparts where the audience has made it clear they are a welcome addition to the music.

Most of them are so small that they couldn't even afford to pay a 19-year-old minimum wage to work for them. I know. I have been there. I don't necessarily blame them for voice-tracking or automation, but even the "live" jocks at 97.1 sounded like they were "phoning it in." And the repetition that I mentioned earlier made it clear that someone was asleep at the switch. And this happened (repeatedly!) at about 2:00 on almost every Monday afternoon, not at some overnight or weekend slot.

Skynyrd obviously plays quite well here, but it is my understanding that they are relatively unheard in NYC. Suggesting that local research is being done and applied.

I am not from Alabama, but I still like "Sweet Home Alabama." Just understand that it is not my favorite of all time or anything, and yes, it has been overplayed.

 

[bigtom101]

Looks good, but this flies in the face of these companies (most of whose names start with "C") who want to voice-track all their stations nationwide. Skynyrd obviously plays quite well here, but it is my understanding that they are relatively unheard in NYC.

CBS-FM & WOGL are live 24/7...in fact, the just hired a new live overnight guy at 101.1 a month or so ago. Not sure about others.

Oh: AC stations have been getting hotter for years...maybe the market couldn't support a mediocre Hot AC and a AC (that is getting hotter by default to evolve) at the same time?