Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[michael hagerty]

Interestingly, KRTH is likely THE oldest sounding classic hits station CBS owns. I wonder how they get away with it?

This is, by my count, the third time I've said this today:

Because the records test well with their desired audience. They'll stop when they no longer do.

 

[carolinaradio]

Interestingly, KRTH is likely THE oldest sounding classic hits station CBS owns. I wonder how they get away with it?

This is, by my count, the third time I've said this today:

Because the records test well with their desired audience. They'll stop when they no longer do.

What I was really meaning was how do they get away with it while other stations don't seem to be able to, and what made that market so special, which David Eduardo answered.

I think a handful of 60s songs will stick around for a good while longer. I'm not a fan of most of them that are still played, mostly due to the fact that they're burned to a crisp to my ears, but it's good to still hear the decade being represented.

 

[radioman148]

Or is it the case that these 60's songs will stand the "test of time" and will test well with their listeners for a few more years. It seems like these particular 60's songs are K-Earth standards now, like their trademark sound.

Again, remember that KRTH is driven by Hispanic listening (45% to 50% of total listening). As a broad rule, Hispanics over 30 don't classify music into "decade silos" and there is no loss of cool from playing an older song. So, if that segment of the audience heard some of those 60's songs... even if it was from "gold" play... and they continue to like them, that makes KRTH more likely than most classic hits stations to continue to play them.

And the Hispanic audience kept the old KRLA (1110) going until the late 90s. What a great sounding station that was even in it's later years, IMO.
Art Laboe continues to serve that audience very well today.

 

[firepoint525]

I guess it varies by market, but I'm surprised so many times how similar a lot of a Variety Hits stations are to today's Classic Hits stations, especially in markets where VH is the only game in town. WCJK in Nashville (the station I'm assuming you're referring to) is somewhat older in its focus but doesn't play as much 70s material as most.

I was indeed referring to WCJK. (Interesting how stations will go to all that trouble to change their call letters to match a new format, even though most only use their calls at the top of the hour in their legal ID, and even then only because the FCC requires them to do so!) At least, at first, they were playing some older titles, but that was probably because they "hiJACKed" the oldies station to go "JACK-FM." Also, their sister station, Mix 92.9 (AC), picked up a few older titles after Oldies 96.3 was gone. So, many of the songs that Oldies 96.3 had been playing were still being played, but you might have had to constantly scan up and down the dial to find them.

 

[firepoint525]

It's discouraging for me. I carefully explain my point but people never get it. I acknowledged that 50s play had been greatly reduced before 2004 but the early 60s were still in heavy rotation. I'm going to assume that in your market, the change was make earlier but 2004 was the year that everything pre-Beatles was removed from one big Oldies station after another and replaced with 70s titles. If you can find an old enough archive, there was plenty about it on this website, with people going on and on, about how awful the whole thing was.

You (like some of the others on here) seem to be fixated with a date. ("Well, in 2004, they dropped the '50s and early '60s, so now it's time to drop the '60s and '70s, blah blah blah") And several on here (who usually disagree with me!) have tried to make the same point to you . I (and others) have said that disco/1974 is more of a "soft" dividing point. The next "hard" dividing point is around 1980. Disco died, and another garage band revolution (this time called "new wave") had taken over. So, it's still a little too soon to abandon the '70s, as long as the second half of the baby boom (folks like me) hang on by our fingernails to advertisers' precious age demos. (They're going to realize the folly of that thinking once the current 40-somethings (ME!) age out, and there won't be enough "replacement" listeners to keep music formats going, and they will be forced to flip to all-sports or all-talk.) Programmers are still trying (for a little while longer) to avoid pushing classic hits into the '90s because they know that not enough '90s songs currently "test" well (yet), and playing too much '90s right now will cause 40-somethings (me again!) to hit the dial, and they are trying to hold on to me for about another five years. (And I haven't even mentioned rap yet!) At the same time, those horrid late '70s and early '80s country "crossovers" (save for southern rock like the CDB) are anathema to programmers because they are anathema to listeners. (At least programmers occasionally get SOMETHING right!) And yes, I am going to hit them yet again for forcing "Elvira" on us back in the early '80s! : But at least there are still enough '80s NON-country tunes that test well, that programmers can still play, and that I still like.

 

[firepoint525]

I think the biggest rip-off of a Greatest Hits LP was the Eagles "Greatest Hits Volume 2"... mostly songs from "Hotel California", "The Long Run", "Seven Bridges Road" from the "Eagles Live" album, and a filler non-hit cut from 1975's "One of These Nights".

I personally like The Long Run album, but didn't care for the Hotel California album (too overplayed, anyway), and "Seven Bridges Road" was a bit too country for my taste, so the Eagles' second greatest hits album was a non-starter for me, anyway.

Kinda surprised that no one here has mentioned Steve Miller's '74-'78 greatest hits album. With the exception of "The Joker," everything on it came from just two albums, Fly Like an Eagle and Book of Dreams. The hit singles appear on there only in their single edits, and there are a number of album tracks on there that were never singles to begin with. Even the date is misleading. It should be more like 1973 (the year that "The Joker" came out) to 1977 (the year that "Swingtown" hit). I could almost give them 1978 for the latter range of the date, since that is when that album came out. (And buyer beware: the reissue of that album (on cassette) omitted even more songs. Playing time of less than half an hour! )

 

[semoochie]

This is not personal with me. I'm simply stating a fact and asking for industry consensus, as to whether or not it will happen again and if so, in the same way or another.

 

[firepoint525]

This is not personal with me. I'm simply stating a fact and asking for industry consensus, as to whether or not it will happen again and if so, in the same way or another.

Okay, here we go again. It already HAS happened. It happened here in Nashville (the first time) in 2005. It happened again (with the second station) in 2006. These were '60s-centered oldies stations. The next generational purge (in about five years because that is when I turn 55) will take out what is left of the '70s. :'( Then they will lose me (forever!) as a listener because I am NOT going to listen to a "classic" hits station that thinks "Shine" by Collective Soul, or "Hard to Handle" by the Black Crows is the holy grail. :

 

[carolinaradio]

Whenever the 70s start getting phased out of the format (I think it will be a long time until the decade is gone completely, we still hear 60s on occasion), the format is going to be in a TOUGH position. 90s music may start testing better, but I still think the bulk of it will still test negatively. You barely hear the decade on AC stations, even, and that format is still having to hold on to the 70s vs. increasing its 90s product. I don't know if a typical 2-decade based format like we've known will be sustainable without the 70s. Tons of great stuff until the mid-late 80s, but it gets tough after that. I DO think, though, that the 70s will have more staying power than the 60s, which had more than the 50s.

Then again, one has to wonder, will radio have ANY relevance left by the time 70s music is dropped?

I've been listening to Big Classic Hits on iHeartRadio some lately, I think it's just the straight Premium Choice CH feed that Clear Channel uses. Nothing obscure on it like some may like, but it sounds pretty good to me. I like it more than Sirius, not a fan of decade-only channels for older stuff.

 

[oldies76]

Then again, one has to wonder, will radio have ANY relevance left by the time 70s music is dropped?

Who knows, the way mid to late 70's are being played now (and that's only 10-15% of the top 20 charted hits from 1970-1979), I just do not see the same for 90's music. There's a huge dividing line on what can be played on "classic hits" from the 90's, to what songs cannot air on classic hits.

There are a lot of slower AC contemporary songs, like Celine Dion, Michael Bolton, Wilson Phillips (Release Me), Mariah Carey (I'll Be There), Boyz II Men (End of the Road)...etc..which could be questionable. Do you hear boatloads of AC contemps from the 70's and 80's today? Not really. Then you have rap and hip-hop songs, like 2Pac, Bone Thugs N Harmony, Puff Daddy, etc, which won't get much airplay. Kris Kross "Jump" might pass though.

Then you have the pop-rock dance music, like Ace of Base, No Doubt, Santana, Spice Girls, Janet Jackson...etc.. Mix that up with your alternative acts (EMF, REM) , hair bands and grunge acts.

There is just a lot going on in the 90's (all sqeezed into 10 years) and I believe radio will have a hard time picking and choosing, on what to really feature here.

Oohhh, and let's not forget about "The Macarena" too, 14 weeks at #1 in 1996!

 

[michael hagerty]

Then again, one has to wonder, will radio have ANY relevance left by the time 70s music is dropped?

Who knows, the way mid to late 70's are being played now (and that's only 10-15% of the top 20 charted hits from 1970-1979), I just do not see the same for 90's music. There's a huge dividing line on what can be played on "classic hits" from the 90's, to what songs cannot air on classic hits.

There are a lot of slower AC contemporary songs, like Celine Dion, Michael Bolton, Wilson Phillips (Release Me), Mariah Carey (I'll Be There), Boyz II Men (End of the Road)...etc..which could be questionable. Do you hear boatloads of AC contemps from the 70's and 80's today? Not really. Then you have rap and hip-hop songs, like 2Pac, Bone Thugs N Harmony, Puff Daddy, etc, which won't get much airplay. Kris Kross "Jump" might pass though.

Then you have the pop-rock dance music, like Ace of Base, No Doubt, Santana, Spice Girls, Janet Jackson...etc.. Mix that up with your alternative acts (EMF, REM) , hair bands and grunge acts.

There is just a lot going on in the 90's (all sqeezed into 10 years) and I believe radio will have a hard time picking and choosing, on what to really feature here.

Oohhh, and let's not forget about "The Macarena" too, 14 weeks at #1 in 1996!

Radio won't pick and choose. It will test. The target audience will decide what gets played and whether it's a particular genre of 90s music or a mix of some or all of them.

 

[davideduardo]

I've been listening to Big Classic Hits on iHeartRadio some lately, I think it's just the straight Premium Choice CH feed that Clear Channel uses.

Remember, for the most part Premium Choice is not a satellite or fiber delivered format... it's a bunch of workparts that allow stations to customize locally. A station can play their own music, run the number of jock bits or talk sets per hour they want, insert contests, promos, etc. They are not restricted to fixed stopset lengths as the "format" is assembled locally.

Is it live and local? No. Is it highly customizable for the local market... yes.

 

[billyg]

Radio won't pick and choose. It will test. The target audience will decide what gets played and whether it's a particular genre of 90s music or a mix of some or all of them.

I wonder what kind of test results WOGL in Philly gets, I've been listening to their webstream and they tend to skew toward 70's R&B and Disco hits.

Last week the morning jock played Raydio's "Jack and Jill". Even though it was a Top Ten hit in 1978 I've never heard any classic hits station play it before.

 

[michael hagerty]

Radio won't pick and choose. It will test. The target audience will decide what gets played and whether it's a particular genre of 90s music or a mix of some or all of them.

I wonder what kind of test results WOGL in Philly gets, I've been listening to their webstream and they tend to skew toward 70's R&B and Disco hits.

Last week the morning jock played Raydio's "Jack and Jill". Even though it was a Top Ten hit in 1978 I've never heard any classic hits station play it before.

You just answered your own question. And in Philly, the R&B lean makes perfect sense.

 

[amfmsw]

Philly is its own Monster. I've mentioned this before, that testing from other cities is valuless here and at the Jersey Shore...Philly, NYC, Baltimore/D.C. and Atlantic City corridor has always lived in it's own little Rock & Soul Bubble. From Billy Stewart to The Hooters.

 

[firepoint525]

Oohhh, and let's not forget about "The Macarena" too, 14 weeks at #1 in 1996!

Hi, oldies 76, I hope you are not seriously considering "Macarena" for play on classic hits stations, once they start introducing '90s music, which I feel like is still a minimum of five years away. I have a feeling that "Macarena" will fall into the same category as other extremely long chart toppers, like "You Light Up My Life" and "Physical," that almost no one wants to hear anymore.

 

[oldies76]

Hi, oldies 76, I hope you are not seriously considering "Macarena" for play on classic hits stations, once they start introducing '90s music, which I feel like is still a minimum of five years away. I have a feeling that "Macarena" will fall into the same category as other extremely long chart toppers, like "You Light Up My Life" and "Physical," that almost no one wants to hear anymore.

It should remain in the library, but not in regular rotation.

Funny you mentioned that no one would want to hear it anymore...it was a requested song at a home party that I did in November. And they had fun dancing to it, steps, moves and all. Interesting huh?

 

[semoochie]

The poster probably meant that no one wanted to hear it several times a day, for the rest of their life!

 

[firepoint525]

Hi, oldies 76, I hope you are not seriously considering "Macarena" for play on classic hits stations, once they start introducing '90s music, which I feel like is still a minimum of five years away. I have a feeling that "Macarena" will fall into the same category as other extremely long chart toppers, like "You Light Up My Life" and "Physical," that almost no one wants to hear anymore.

It should remain in the library, but not in regular rotation.

Roger that!

Funny you mentioned that no one would want to hear it anymore...it was a requested song at a home party that I did in November. And they had fun dancing to it, steps, moves and all. Interesting huh?

Tom Kent fairly regularly plays "The Electric Slide" (which I think is a cool song), but yet, other than Kent, I never hear it on radio. I suppose it's cool to have some party and club favorites which aren't usually played over the radio.

The poster probably meant that no one wanted to hear it several times a day, for the rest of their life!

Roger that, too! 8)

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Hi, oldies 76, I hope you are not seriously considering "Macarena" for play on classic hits stations, once they start introducing '90s music, which I feel like is still a minimum of five years away. I have a feeling that "Macarena" will fall into the same category as other extremely long chart toppers, like "You Light Up My Life" and "Physical," that almost no one wants to hear anymore.

It should remain in the library, but not in regular rotation.

Roger that!

Funny you mentioned that no one would want to hear it anymore...it was a requested song at a home party that I did in November. And they had fun dancing to it, steps, moves and all. Interesting huh?

Tom Kent fairly regularly plays "The Electric Slide" (which I think is a cool song), but yet, other than Kent, I never hear it on radio. I suppose it's cool to have some party and club favorites which aren't usually played over the radio.

The poster probably meant that no one wanted to hear it several times a day, for the rest of their life!

Roger that, too! 8)

About Tom Kent,
From our discussion in that last "tuneout" thread, testing was the main topic. If Tom Kent is national, then his "testing" must reflect that. So in the past week alone here's what I've heard Tom Kent play---
-"9 to 5" - Dolly Parton
-"One Bad Apple" - Osmonds
-"Morning After" - Maureen McGovern
-"Seasons In The Sun" - Terry Jacks
-"Dizzy" - Tommy Roe
-"Love Is Blue" - Paul Mauriat
-"Walk Like An Egyptian" - Bangles
and plenty more........
my point is, why would Tom Kent's network (and I know he runs several different "programs") be chuck full of all these songs that "don't test well" or "no one wants to hear again"? Unfortuantely, and I never thought I'd say this but, Tom Kent is the most creative and fun to listen to radio anywhere. He's not afraid to throw these songs in the mix, and it kept me listening....

Also, it was mentioned in that thread that stations like K-Earth in LA benefit by playing "Black Magic Woman" and "La Bamba" because it "appeals to Hispanic listeners", well if they use that lousy logic, then cue up the "Macarena" now :