I don't know that "Be Good Johnny" was ever even released as a single (which was indeed a requirement for making the charts back then), but it got some airplay on my local top 40 back then. "Down Under" had just peaked, and then dropped, so it looked like "Johnny" would be the next single. Instead, they went on to the Cargo album and issued "Overkill" as the leadoff single. At that point, the local station never touched "Johnny" again. Too bad, because I felt like it had the potential to be a big hit for the Men.michael hagerty said:
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Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?
- Thread starter semoochie
- Start date
I'd be curious to know what those are. The #14 was probably "I Saw Her Standing There," and if this were a classic rock station, I would guess that one of the LP cuts would have been "While My Guitar Gently Weeps." "Michelle" would be an obvious LP choice, and maybe "Good Day Sunshine." I don't know that "All My Loving" was ever released as a single.michael hagerty said:
Fairly obvious that "Revolution #9" was NOT played! ;D
Pretty cool playlist! Now I wouldn't necessarily want to hear all of these in regular rotation, but it is cool to hear them played back (in context) on the Casey Kasem retro AT40 countdowns. Tomorrow, we will get to hear the week of January 29, 1977. Maybe some of these were on the charts that week! The tease promo for this week's program even mentioned that "Smokie was living next door to Alice"! 8)RIN3GUY said:
Times change! Remember how, a couple of years ago, Mellencamp had to license one of his songs directly to Chevrolet, for use in a truck commercial, to get it played?radioman148 said:
Biondi4Mayor said:
Okay, but do you know if it was possible to vote without actually listening, for instance, you see a song on the list and recognize it. Did you have to listen to it, or could you vote based on what you saw?
Biondi4Mayor said:Across formats and demos, half of a station's total listeners give a station about 90% of its time spent listening. Since ad rates are derived from TSL much more than cume, stations must take care of the half that gives them nearly the entirety of the revenue.
Oh yeah ratings are real reliable. Share that statistic again with us that you posted on the other thread. The 15 or whatever meters that can define LA's #1 station - yeah that'll be sufficient for the demos. :
Consider first that ratings are paid for by the radio industry to allow advertisers to have a pricing metric for ad time.
As an aftermath of the congressional hearings on ratings of the 60's, we got what is now the MRC, an advertiser and agency-centric organization that audits ratings company methodology and individual market every year. The MRC is composed of some of the country's best statisticians and research experts.
If they can accredit a survey methodology, sample size and implementation where at any given time the actual listening to the leading station is 15 meters, then that is based on the opinion of the MRC group that this is an adequate sample for the stated purpose of the survey.
Keep in mind that 15 is the average number of dials detecting that station at any given time. The total number of dials that detect it each week are about 1,000. The average time each one listens to that station is 47 minutes a day.
Maybe some services do that, but again the one I'm talking about (and their clients go beyond WLS) is strictly pay. I could prove that to you, but you'd probably not believe me anyway.[/quote]
There is nothing wrong with revealing the name of the research company, unless you are under a permanent non-disclosure agreement. The fact that you are being so secretive about this makes the whole process suspect.
Biondi4Mayor said:
A couple of things to remember:
Auditorium music testing has been going on in good-sized markets for 20 years or more. As David has noted, in those settings, you pretty much have to keep the songs tested in any one session down to 100 or so, or else fatigue will affect the results you get. I'd expect most PDs to test 70 songs on their current playlist, 15 songs that failed previously and 15 tracks that are about to "age in" to the demo.
If you're doing these quarterly, the only ones you should repeat next time are the ones you are concerned may be burning out, the ones you think may be gaining in popularity (recent exposure of the artist on tour, on TV, in a commercial, in a movie, a nostalgia boom in that artist's genre, higher test scores for similar artists) and the ones that were marginal and either added with caution or passed over previously.
A good PD will bring back songs over time if there's any reason to suspect they might do better.
Also, you need to keep in mind that the difference in sales between a #40 record and a #100 record is far less than the difference between a #1 record and a #10 record.
Songs could make #20 without getting airplay in major markets. Thus, millions of people never heard them unless they were listening to Casey Kasem, in which case they heard them once a week for a few weeks at best. Songs below #20 are a crapshoot. To be honest, it gets iffy after about #12, with exceptions that should be handled on a case by case basis.
michael hagerty said:
The "good" systems allow for operation similar to dial-based auditorium tests, with a slider that goes from 0 to 100. Zero indicates unfamiliarity (and thus no score) and then 1-100 are scores for songs that you are familiar with. A button can be employed to indicated developed dislike "I used to like it but I don't want to hear it any more."
Systems that present five scores, roughly "hate" "dislike" "neutral" "like" and "love" tend to divide songs into quintiles, making determining the viability of borderline songs very hard to determine. In other words, if a song scores a 3 for neutral, is it really closer to a 2 meaning it sucks, or to a 4, meaning it may be playable or at least used as a fill song?
Hooks must be somewhere between 7 and 8 seconds long to work. A good automated system will have 15 seconds of hook material, but allow advancing to the next song if the current one has been scored but only after about 7 seconds minimum play to avoid someone "speed dialing" the whole test or not giving a song enough time to be sure of the score.
Any system that allows moving to the next song before 7 seconds is going to yield fuzzy results... maybe even distorted ones.
The system should not give text readings of the artist and title, as that introduces "fan bias" or the opposite... a good example would be how many adult women like old Backstreet songs, but would not like to admit to being BSB fans... so the text has a negative effect.
5 seconds is too little. Replay is not a good idea (you can't replay if the song appears on your local radio station), but having the ability to play more of the hook definitely is...
Biondi4Mayor said:michael hagerty said:
The Beatles are a different animal. No one's afraid to be creative with them. As great as groups like The Beatles or The Supremes were, that's too much of them in one day. Say for instance someone didn't love the Beatles (I myself get sick of them sometimes), you've just given me 13 chances to tune out. And for the non-Supreme lover, 7 daily chances to run away. Other than The Beatles, I bet I could virtually name the songs you heard by the others perfectly - there was probably "Baby Love", "Rhiannon", and "Crocodile Rock" in there -----SAME SAME SAME - here, there, and everywhere on all stations.
Too many repeats. They may do well as a station, but we'll never know how a competing station in the same market, with the same signal, with more variety would do because "our ideas are wrong". :
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EDIT- Just checked Monday as well, yep all those I listed were certainly among the bunch. Plenty of songs got repeated twice in one day as well (and I know playlists like that have glitches that repeat back to back songs, but I talking repeats separated by a few hours).
Biondi:
Again, remember, the typical target listener is there for 47 minutes (thanks, David!) at roughly the same time every day. KRTH didn't give them 13 chances to tune out The Beatles and 7 to tune out The Supremes, KRTH increased the odds that the average listener might...might...hear The Beatles or The Supremes on Monday.
The typical target listener also didn't hear a song twice.
There are a lot of stations that would and do play it safe with The Beatles. With that many #1s and Top 10s, there's no need to go to B-sides and LP cuts. But KRTH did. And if Jhani's playing it, Jhani tested it first.
semoochie said:
Yep. I'm using KRTH's own online music logs.
firepoint525 said:
"Be Good Johnny" was released as a single. As I said, it did well on AOR, but did not make Billboard's Hot 100.
michael hagerty said:
Another thing to consider is that, with about 50% Hispanic listening to KRTH, we may have some cultural differences that affect Beatles songs.
The Beatles did not do all that well in Latin America. In fact, CCR had more radio hits and sold more records in Latin America than the Beatles did... so a station playing to a very Hispanic audience may find that the titles that work with both non-Hispanic and Hispanic listeners will not be the same as the set of titles that work in Bangor, ME.
firepoint525 said:
I'm on my mobile and won't be able to look at the spreadsheet until tonight. You're right about "I Saw Her Standing There".
michael hagerty said:
If they are supposedly not hearing the same song for once in every three weeks, then why are there complaints about repetition of some of the tested songs? Not just for KRTH, but most other stations as a whole. This would apply to classic rock stations too.
BTW, I was driving up to Denver Zoo today and listening to Denver's 105.1 classic hits station and you guessed it, "Brown Eyed Girl" came on AGAIN and first thing the wife said...."change this station, they play this song too much". We tuned out! :
It happens Mr. Hagerty, people do tune out on excessively played, well tested songs, and she's not even 1/4 into the oldies that I am.
oldies76 said:michael hagerty said:
If they are supposedly not hearing the same song for once in every three weeks, then why are there complaints about repetition of some of the tested songs? Not just for KRTH, but most other stations as a whole. This would apply to classic rock stations too.
BTW, I was driving up to Denver Zoo today and listening to Denver's 105.1 classic hits station and you guessed it, "Brown Eyed Girl" came on AGAIN and first thing the wife said...."change this station, they play this song too much". We tuned out! :
It happens Mr. Hagerty, people do tune out on excessively played, well tested songs, and she's not even 1/4 into the oldies that I am.
Without being indelicate, how old is your wife, when was the last time she remembers wanting to hear "Brown-Eyed Girl" and how much time does she spend within earshot of your listening to oldies/classic hits?
Also possibly instructive: What are her presets set to?
David has answered your question about repetition complaints multiple times. It's when people hear a song they don't like.
Mr. Hagerty, did you know that Steve Goddard does a show on Super Hits 106 on Saturday mornings? Isn't he a regular on Kool out of Phoenix?
Here's a small sample what I heard this morning:
849am Can't Smile Without You - Barry Manilow 1978
852 For the Love of Money - O'Jays 1974
857 Got To Get You Into My Life - Beatles 1966/76
900 My Life - Billy Joel 1979
906 I Love Music - O'Jays 1976
910 Just Remember I Love You - Firefall 1977
913 That's the Way I've Always... - Carly Simon 1971
918 Used Ta Be My Girl - O' Jays 1978
922 In the Summertime - Mungo Jerry 1970
929 You Should Be Dancing - Bee Gees 1976
934 If You Don't Know Me By Now - Harold Melvin 1972
Sounds like a good show, his theme this morning was soul and O'Jays music.
Here's a small sample what I heard this morning:
849am Can't Smile Without You - Barry Manilow 1978
852 For the Love of Money - O'Jays 1974
857 Got To Get You Into My Life - Beatles 1966/76
900 My Life - Billy Joel 1979
906 I Love Music - O'Jays 1976
910 Just Remember I Love You - Firefall 1977
913 That's the Way I've Always... - Carly Simon 1971
918 Used Ta Be My Girl - O' Jays 1978
922 In the Summertime - Mungo Jerry 1970
929 You Should Be Dancing - Bee Gees 1976
934 If You Don't Know Me By Now - Harold Melvin 1972
Sounds like a good show, his theme this morning was soul and O'Jays music.
oldies76 said:
Steve does afternoons on KOOL, has been one of my favorite jocks since I first heard him on KCBQ in San Diego 35 years ago and has been a friend (and once a co-worker) for 20 years.
His syndicated weekly show (which KOOL and other classic hits stations carry), "Goddard's Gold" is a great listen.
With the exception of Manilow, I've heard all those tracks on KOOL recently (Mungo Jerry usually pops up in the warmer months). Pretty safe yet tasty list.
michael hagerty said:
Late 30's.....usually the car is preset to mainly classic hits stations (AM and FM), one CHR, one AC and a couple local classic rock stations. Usually she enjoys listening to whatever I listen to on road trips or coming back from work. So yes, she does get a lot of classic hits exposure. But she does recognize the excessive play of some songs.
I don't know when she specifically wanted to hear "Brown Eyed Girl" but she liked it very much when she first heard it with me, around 2003.
oldies76 said:
So...probably more than the exposure level of the average classic hits listener over a 10-year period and that particular song is older than she is.
firepoint525 said:
"All My Lovin'" reached #45, kept from the Top 40 by several other Beatles' songs above it! This also happened to "From Me To You" (#41) and "You Can't Do That (#48)." "All My Lovin'" did, however, reach #31 on Cash Box.
Other very popular Beatles' songs that were never released as singles include: "Tell Me Why," "Back in the USSR," "Little Child," "It Won't Be Long," "The Night Before," and "All I've Got to Do." These have all broken through into radio playlists, and rightly so. They should not be overlooked. Some were charting hits in the UK.
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