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Classic Hits is NOT Golden Oldies.
- Thread starter sharksfan
- Start date
Re: NEWSFLASH!
They already announced artists they would play; the manager mentioned Bryan Adams, in fact, to R&R.
My point is to hold back the criticism until we hear it. We know it will be like WOGL... classic hits... because they already said that. Now, let's see how thy put it together.
wgliradio said:
They already announced artists they would play; the manager mentioned Bryan Adams, in fact, to R&R.
My point is to hold back the criticism until we hear it. We know it will be like WOGL... classic hits... because they already said that. Now, let's see how thy put it together.
KevinFodor said:
Why should they get over it? There are many stations in every market all trying to do the same thing, playing the same music. That's part of the reason the late '60's and '70's oldies don't appeal to me. I'm burned out on them. Every A/C station in America played them to death! "I'd really Love to See You Tonight" by England Dan and John Ford Coley is a good song but enough!
For the record I was born in '52 which puts me right in the middle of the British Invasion period and a little later. However, I like some things going back to the '40's and early '50's. My 18 year old daughter likes Lesley Gore, Bobby Vee, Sinatra and Nat King Cole.
Why does every generation think they invented music? Why is it necessary to wipe out everything that came before? To me music is not disposable. I like some of the new stuff that's played on CHR and A/C radio but I will never get tired of songs like "Duke of Earl" "You Don't Own Me" and lots of others that haven't been heard on the radio for a long time.
There is a lot more music out there than the narrow slice played by radio stations, Jazz, Classical, Country...whatever!
MS
For the record
O
OldiesCat
Guest
NOT Golden Oldies.
Mike, I don't think every generation things they invented music but I do believe they think they "discovered" THEIR music. If you were a teenager in the sixties, THAT music is YOUR music. If you were a teen in the seventies, that is YOUR stuff.
All that being said, I do believe that the 60s or Oldies as it's been successfully branded, does stand for the music that was the soundtrack for the most important decade of social change in our nation's history. When the 70s rolled around, the band started splitting stations between AM and FM, the 7" record with the big hole in the middle was slowly replaced by the LP, which by the end of the 70s was the standard by which music was bought and played.
There are those who will say "the biggest fans of 70s music don't have the same passion for their set of music as 60s fans do of Oldies" and while there's probably some truth to that, the reason isn't because the music isn't as good or as important but because of the fact that album radio began to flourish in the early 70s, big rock super-groups took hold and choices on the radio multiplied. In the 60s, popular music for the younger crowd was for the most AM top 40; when the 70s hit, you had AM top 40, AOR, country, AC and so on. The argument might also be made that disco almost killed top 40, but probably no moreso than the music of the late 50s/early 60s did when Elvis was in the military and Buddy Holly died, which left us with a lot of lightweight milktoast artists (comparitavely) to fill in for a number of years until The Beatles landed in New York and changed everything, as Elvis did in the mid 50s.
Music has run this cycle for decades; and for all those Oldies purists who still insist CBS-FM be heavy into songs like "Da Doo Ron Ron", I'll refer you to the Coleman Research Oldies study of a few years back that looked at Oldies stations working 70s material into their mix. One of their conclusions was that people in their 50s were just fine with 70s hits being added to their Oldies station- a whole lot more than 40-somethings were with keeping 50s and late 60s music on the air. Reason: as these folks grew through the late 60s and into the 70s, those big hits were part of them getting married, having kids, building a career and so on, and were songs that were popular and listened to in large numbers on the radio. For 40-somethings who were teens in the 70s, that 50s music represented a previous generation and they tend to label much before 1965 as "50s music" or "doo wop", even though it clearly isn't. But THAT is how THEY perceive it- there is nothing, no affinity toward pre-Beatles music for most 40-somethings-it's simply not "their music".
So, if CBS-FM wants much TSL from anybody under 55, they will smartly and tastefully have a healthy mix of mostly 70s HITS, with a sprinkling of late 60s and some of the right early/mid 80s. And, for the Oldies junkies who love "American Grafitti", sock hops and poodle skirts, I recommend XM, Sirius or a nice MP3 player because today's advertisers are not targeting 55+ with radio in 2007, making it virtually impossible to be profitable playing Chuck Berry tunes.
Mike Sheridan said:
Mike, I don't think every generation things they invented music but I do believe they think they "discovered" THEIR music. If you were a teenager in the sixties, THAT music is YOUR music. If you were a teen in the seventies, that is YOUR stuff.
All that being said, I do believe that the 60s or Oldies as it's been successfully branded, does stand for the music that was the soundtrack for the most important decade of social change in our nation's history. When the 70s rolled around, the band started splitting stations between AM and FM, the 7" record with the big hole in the middle was slowly replaced by the LP, which by the end of the 70s was the standard by which music was bought and played.
There are those who will say "the biggest fans of 70s music don't have the same passion for their set of music as 60s fans do of Oldies" and while there's probably some truth to that, the reason isn't because the music isn't as good or as important but because of the fact that album radio began to flourish in the early 70s, big rock super-groups took hold and choices on the radio multiplied. In the 60s, popular music for the younger crowd was for the most AM top 40; when the 70s hit, you had AM top 40, AOR, country, AC and so on. The argument might also be made that disco almost killed top 40, but probably no moreso than the music of the late 50s/early 60s did when Elvis was in the military and Buddy Holly died, which left us with a lot of lightweight milktoast artists (comparitavely) to fill in for a number of years until The Beatles landed in New York and changed everything, as Elvis did in the mid 50s.
Music has run this cycle for decades; and for all those Oldies purists who still insist CBS-FM be heavy into songs like "Da Doo Ron Ron", I'll refer you to the Coleman Research Oldies study of a few years back that looked at Oldies stations working 70s material into their mix. One of their conclusions was that people in their 50s were just fine with 70s hits being added to their Oldies station- a whole lot more than 40-somethings were with keeping 50s and late 60s music on the air. Reason: as these folks grew through the late 60s and into the 70s, those big hits were part of them getting married, having kids, building a career and so on, and were songs that were popular and listened to in large numbers on the radio. For 40-somethings who were teens in the 70s, that 50s music represented a previous generation and they tend to label much before 1965 as "50s music" or "doo wop", even though it clearly isn't. But THAT is how THEY perceive it- there is nothing, no affinity toward pre-Beatles music for most 40-somethings-it's simply not "their music".
So, if CBS-FM wants much TSL from anybody under 55, they will smartly and tastefully have a healthy mix of mostly 70s HITS, with a sprinkling of late 60s and some of the right early/mid 80s. And, for the Oldies junkies who love "American Grafitti", sock hops and poodle skirts, I recommend XM, Sirius or a nice MP3 player because today's advertisers are not targeting 55+ with radio in 2007, making it virtually impossible to be profitable playing Chuck Berry tunes.
Mike Sheridan said:
Mike:
"Why does every generation think they invented music?"
Re-read your post. You obviously think that, too about Leslie Gore and "Duke Of Earl".
And that's my point. Every generation has its' soundtrack. And radio has tried, as much as possible to serve
these listeners. Unfortunately, (and I am repeating this for the gazillionth time!) the generation for the original "oldies"
format is no longer valued by advertisers and their agencies, so radio (who has to make money to survive) has to move on.
I don't like it. I've tried to fight it. But that's the way it is...and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
Again, I sense, you hold this music so true to your heart, it's almost like a religion. Fine if you want to do that.
But I say again, this ain't a religion. It's only rock and roll.
What Oldies Cat wrote here is absolutely correct. Radio has to appeal to people predominantly under age 55 to
survive. That's the way it is. I know it sounds heartless to say this but, deal with it! Buy the Time-Life collection.
load your MP-3 promo. You have options.
A
adma
Guest
However, I feel that in this age, the old "every generation has its soundtrack" formula has broken down, at least relative to the past. Soundtracks are more individualized than "generationalized"; kids are more prone to mix'n'matching from past and present, among genres, current, retro, old school, etc.KevinFodor said:
And though radio's "tried" to catch up with this (cf. Jack-FM, or even Classic Hits), the trend's probably gone too far for radio to properly catch up without sounding feeble, or "bad wedding DJish", etc.
Thus, radio's reach, once universal, is more like "whomever's left" (+ "whomever's lucrative")...
I agree with Kevin. I know a lot of boomers want the 60s hits of the traditional oldies format back, but for advertising reasons, that just isn't the way it goes. Like it or not, advertisers have always wanted 25-54 numbers (and 18-34 to a lesser extent). But they just are not interested in buying 55-60 something numbers. The assumption has always been that senior listeners live on set incomes and are set in their ways and really do not make a lot of purchases or try a lot of new products. Granted, this is a bit antiquated, and really not so much the case anymore with the boomer generation, but that is still the perception.
And this aging of the boomer demographics is why you will not see the traditional 60s based oldies format coming back. It was inevitable. Just look at previous generations formats such as Adult Standards and Easy Listening. You began to see them being updated, then moved to smaller signals, then eventually dropped in most markets (or moved to very insignificant signals). It was a given that this would begin to happen with 60's music eventually too. Just think, if you were at a formative age (18 lets say) in 1967, then today you are 58 years old. The math is simple. To get back down into even the upper parts of the 25-54 demo, you now have to move on into the early to mid 70s musically.
Personally, I am 37. I was born in October 1969, and graduated from high school in 1987. I am now right in the middle of the coveted 25-54 demo, and my formative teen years were in the early and mid 80s listening to new wave, hair bands, early hip hop, freestyle dance, etc. Those 80s artists mentioned in other posts by the 60's oldies fans ARE now oldies and the "teenage" music to those of us in the middle of the 25-54 demo (basically Gen. X now). As hard as it is to believe, artists like Men at Work, Duran Duran, Flock of Seagulls, Naked Eyes, the Go Go's, Big Country, the Fixx, Thompson Twins, etc., etc. are now THE oldies for people my age (30's and 40's). Those artists and hits are now 20 to 25 years old. That's the same age as the hits of the traditional 60's oldies format when it really started to explode in the late 80's and early 90's.
I'm sorry for the people who lament the traditional oldies format, but as I said, it is simply a matter of demographics and time. Like it or not, we are all getting older and my age group will also become irrelevant to advertisers in the future as well. If you are truly a fan of the traditional 60's based oldies format and long to hear it on the radio, your best bet is to buy either an XM or Sirius radio. Both services have excellent 60s formats, complete with retro PAMS jingles and all. They are a pay service and can afford to serve many smaller "niche" formats that just aren't viable on terrestrial radio anymore.
And as a final thought to the whole CBS-FM thing. I really don't think that the big mistake was dumping the traditional 60s music. I think the biggest flaw to "Jack FM" in the New York City area was it's lack of personality and interaction. While automated jukeboxes do ok in many parts of the country, New York City really expects more and has always been accustomed to more. NYC is a vibrant, alive city with lots of stuff going on and the listeners in the area want that feel and connection from their radio station. I think that if 101.1 had done the same type of format (80s with a bit of 70s and 90s thrown in), but done it with great jocks, jingles, sweepers and lots of interaction and promotion, the result would have been much different. I don't think it was the fact that everyone was lamenting 60s music that doomed Jack FM, but moreso, a bad formula and presentation that did not fit into the feel and personality of NYC. As a result, I think many traditional oldies fans will be upset with the new CBS-FM. While they may skew a bit older than Jack, I really think what they will probably do is keep a lot of the same music but simply present it in a different, more interactive personality driven manner.
And this aging of the boomer demographics is why you will not see the traditional 60s based oldies format coming back. It was inevitable. Just look at previous generations formats such as Adult Standards and Easy Listening. You began to see them being updated, then moved to smaller signals, then eventually dropped in most markets (or moved to very insignificant signals). It was a given that this would begin to happen with 60's music eventually too. Just think, if you were at a formative age (18 lets say) in 1967, then today you are 58 years old. The math is simple. To get back down into even the upper parts of the 25-54 demo, you now have to move on into the early to mid 70s musically.
Personally, I am 37. I was born in October 1969, and graduated from high school in 1987. I am now right in the middle of the coveted 25-54 demo, and my formative teen years were in the early and mid 80s listening to new wave, hair bands, early hip hop, freestyle dance, etc. Those 80s artists mentioned in other posts by the 60's oldies fans ARE now oldies and the "teenage" music to those of us in the middle of the 25-54 demo (basically Gen. X now). As hard as it is to believe, artists like Men at Work, Duran Duran, Flock of Seagulls, Naked Eyes, the Go Go's, Big Country, the Fixx, Thompson Twins, etc., etc. are now THE oldies for people my age (30's and 40's). Those artists and hits are now 20 to 25 years old. That's the same age as the hits of the traditional 60's oldies format when it really started to explode in the late 80's and early 90's.
I'm sorry for the people who lament the traditional oldies format, but as I said, it is simply a matter of demographics and time. Like it or not, we are all getting older and my age group will also become irrelevant to advertisers in the future as well. If you are truly a fan of the traditional 60's based oldies format and long to hear it on the radio, your best bet is to buy either an XM or Sirius radio. Both services have excellent 60s formats, complete with retro PAMS jingles and all. They are a pay service and can afford to serve many smaller "niche" formats that just aren't viable on terrestrial radio anymore.
And as a final thought to the whole CBS-FM thing. I really don't think that the big mistake was dumping the traditional 60s music. I think the biggest flaw to "Jack FM" in the New York City area was it's lack of personality and interaction. While automated jukeboxes do ok in many parts of the country, New York City really expects more and has always been accustomed to more. NYC is a vibrant, alive city with lots of stuff going on and the listeners in the area want that feel and connection from their radio station. I think that if 101.1 had done the same type of format (80s with a bit of 70s and 90s thrown in), but done it with great jocks, jingles, sweepers and lots of interaction and promotion, the result would have been much different. I don't think it was the fact that everyone was lamenting 60s music that doomed Jack FM, but moreso, a bad formula and presentation that did not fit into the feel and personality of NYC. As a result, I think many traditional oldies fans will be upset with the new CBS-FM. While they may skew a bit older than Jack, I really think what they will probably do is keep a lot of the same music but simply present it in a different, more interactive personality driven manner.
M
Mr. DUBbonet
Guest
Perhaps the best way to "re-invent" CBS-FM was exactly what happened---and was needed. When they blew it up and put on JACK it eventually gave Dan Mason a way to bring back a new and updated CBS-FM to the airwaves. Perhaps the JACK move...in the end...was the vehicle needed to keep CBS-FM around for the long haul. I'm in my mid 50's and will be very willing to support the new format and it's late's 60's to late 80's focus on CBS-FM. I'm just happy to welcome it back. When I want to hear any 50's and early 60's there are some great choices on the AM band whicH I willingly turn on.
A
Australian Whine
Guest
Never heard Hot 97, huh?Mike Sheridan said:
W
warm590
Guest
Well, when Jack-fm came and CBS -101 went away, every other poster on this board said that CBS-Fm was gone, not coming back, get over it...Well guess what- It's coming back and It will be interesting to see the playlist. Of course we will still hear much whining from Oldies cat (what a handle for a guy who puts oldies down whenever he can), and the almighty David E.
Lets give it a chance and discuss it after a few weeks..might surprise all of us
Fire away...
warm590 ;D
Lets give it a chance and discuss it after a few weeks..might surprise all of us
Fire away...
warm590 ;D
Well sorted out and explained, Kevin, Cat, Dub & BRH.
Mike, your point is clear, but the "conveyer belt" keeps movin' and we have to put newer music on it to replace the stuff that eventually falls off.
Whine, your signature is classic, er, cool... er... umm, reminds one of the classic "You don't frighten me, English pig dog... I "expell gas"* in your general direction..."
Now then: As the countdown to zero-hour begins, and CBS-FM re-launches on Thursday at 101 p.m., can we expect Bob Shannon to be the first jock-voice we hear? Will the production and programming depoartments will assemble a "production piece" to kick thinsg off? Will Mayor Bloomberg and Governor Spitzer voice welcome back messages? Will the station produce listener-line testimonials? And will, as it's been suggested, "Hit the Road Jack" be the first song out of the box?
_________________________________________________
*Feh! Original commonly used term edited by Auto Editor. Amazing.
Mike, your point is clear, but the "conveyer belt" keeps movin' and we have to put newer music on it to replace the stuff that eventually falls off.
Whine, your signature is classic, er, cool... er... umm, reminds one of the classic "You don't frighten me, English pig dog... I "expell gas"* in your general direction..."
Now then: As the countdown to zero-hour begins, and CBS-FM re-launches on Thursday at 101 p.m., can we expect Bob Shannon to be the first jock-voice we hear? Will the production and programming depoartments will assemble a "production piece" to kick thinsg off? Will Mayor Bloomberg and Governor Spitzer voice welcome back messages? Will the station produce listener-line testimonials? And will, as it's been suggested, "Hit the Road Jack" be the first song out of the box?
_________________________________________________
*Feh! Original commonly used term edited by Auto Editor. Amazing.
And, for Mike:
The CBS-FM jocks are "practicing" for their debut today on their HD-2 Channel. Though I didn't get to listen for a very long time, I did hear "You Can't Sit Down" by the Dovells (1962). So, at least some of those early years songs are going to apparently make it through. I'm also hearing rumors of a larger-than-usual playlist, too. So, it might not be as bad as you and some of your cohorts thought. Stay tuned.
The CBS-FM jocks are "practicing" for their debut today on their HD-2 Channel. Though I didn't get to listen for a very long time, I did hear "You Can't Sit Down" by the Dovells (1962). So, at least some of those early years songs are going to apparently make it through. I'm also hearing rumors of a larger-than-usual playlist, too. So, it might not be as bad as you and some of your cohorts thought. Stay tuned.
warm590 said:
The fact is that, per the press release, the interviews the manager has given, etc., that CBS-FM will be a different format than what it was prior to Jack replacing it.
As expected, it is targeted at a core demo 10 to 15 years younger.
A
Australian Whine
Guest
KevinFodor said:
Respectfully Kevin, perhaps, the jocks are practicing with the playlist of the stream and not the new CBS-FM?
The previous HD-2 channel did not play much 70's product. It was largely, a 50's/60's channel.
Today's music is a 70's based playlist with a little 60's...and a little 80's.
Maybe it's not the exact list. But I'm willing to wager it's close.
Today's music is a 70's based playlist with a little 60's...and a little 80's.
Maybe it's not the exact list. But I'm willing to wager it's close.
A
Australian Whine
Guest
KevinFodor said:
The more I listen, the more I think you're right. Other possibility...just for fun, they're pulling a few of their own favorites.
W
wmgcbs
Guest
KevinFodor said:
Not really... the HD-2 station, as time went on, started playing much more 70's and 80's music. It got to the point when every other song was from 1970 through the late 80's (and it was this way since last year). The pre-'64 music would get played once or twice an hour.
It would be interesting to know whether or not the playlist is that of the HD-2 station or the new FM 101.1.
However, the 80's songs that they are playing today would fit in PERFECTLY to their new format. They sound good and mix well with 60's and 70's songs.
Australian Whine said:
This comment reminds me of a format flip I did some time ago. We "practiced" the new format 1 AM to 5 AM for several weeks, on air. But from every best-selling album, we played the worst cut. By the time we went on the air, our potential competitors were ignoring us... and did not pay much attention till the book came out
A
adma
Guest
BRH said:
But maybe relative to NYC, especially, *this* is the 30/40(and even going into 50)something reality--heck, arguably the *preferable* reality--we're dealing with...
http://nymag.com/news/features/16529/
Think of it. Transposed back two or three decades, this might have been the molten Eagles/Doobies/Mac core (or at least the ideal thereof) of the AC audience. Music Radio Target #1.
Today, radio is soooooo off their target, it isn't funny.
And considering that these "grup" folk are technically of the MTV era, are acclimatized to rock + hip-hop, don't shrink at the Beastie Boys, etc, they seem and sound quite fine; though yes, it's easy to be cynical and smug about them, I acknowledge that.
They make the way a lot of youse programmer types portray that demo look like real backwoods hayseeds, indeed...
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