"Classic hits" is overused

[vchimpanzee]

I understand that oldies stations don't want to be identified that way any more.

But I heard yet another "classic hits" station which plays just rock. Perhaps Classic Hits should be like CHR and use "rock" or "oldies" after the format name in those situations where a format is fully described. Such as on the ratings site I used to go to which used "CHR/Pop" even though there's no reason to do that. There's no reason to say "CHR/Rhythmic". You could just say "rhythmic".

WBIG-FM Washington, DC, WSRV Atlanta, WRVA-FM Raleigh, NC, WFLB Fayetteville, NC and WVEK Tri-Cities Tenn.-Va. all play just rock. Then you have WXRC Charlotte, NC which shouldn't even use the word "hits" in its format description because it's album-oriented rock the way the format sounded in the 70s, and yet it doesn't rock hard enough to be "classic rock"; the occasional Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye and Temptations confuse things even further.

But there are stations like WNCT-FM Greenville, NC and WCBS-FM in New York City which are still oldies, but just an updated version. True, we have "real" oldies as well, and the term is needed for those stations.

 

[AM FM listener]

Funny, I was just thinking about this, too. I am OK with Oldies stations gradually re-labeling themselves as Classic Hits. However, I am not happy about all the Classic Rock stations beginning to do do the same. As it is, Classic Rock stations are playing more and more hits rather than album cuts but it's still all rock hits, despite playing one rock hit from an R&B artist every couple of hours. This is similar to the Urban stations that label themselves as Rhythmic CHR just because they play a Lady Gaga hit every few hours. Geesh.

 

[davideduardo]

Funny, I was just thinking about this, too. I am OK with Oldies stations gradually re-labeling themselves as Classic Hits. However, I am not happy about all the Classic Rock stations beginning to do do the same. As it is, Classic Rock stations are playing more and more hits rather than album cuts but it's still all rock hits, despite playing one rock hit from an R&B artist every couple of hours. This is similar to the Urban stations that label themselves as Rhythmic CHR just because they play a Lady Gaga hit every few hours. Geesh.

Generally, these labels are mostly intended to identify the general nature of a format to ad agencies and time buyers who are either not in the same market or who might not be familiar with specific station formats even if local. Agency buyers don't need specific format names... they just need a definition that helps them to not needlessly duplicate coverage on buys instead of getting broader format differentiation.

Some are used on the air, but on air slogans are whatever a station wants them to be. If a station wants to play dance and call them "country favorites" it's within their right... and the listeners will decide if they have spotted a phony.

 

[Tom Wells]

Classic Hits means Rock without the "Roll".

Think Bruce Springsteen, "Born In the USA", but not The Rolling Stones "Paint It Black".

It means you'll never have to the Who's song " Call Me Lightning', but you'll hear their later stuff...

It's about appearing more "mature and adult"...no fast-n-loud adolescent stuff, regardless of vintage.

 

[davideduardo]

Classic Hits means Rock without the "Roll".

Think Bruce Springsteen, "Born In the USA", but not The Rolling Stones "Paint It Black".

It means you'll never have to the Who's song " Call Me Lightning', but you'll hear their later stuff...

It's about appearing more "mature and adult"...no fast-n-loud adolescent stuff, regardless of vintage.

I can think of nearby classic hits stations that do not play the first song and do play the second. It's all a question of individual markets and programmers and the local cometitive array.

"Classic Hits" means CHR gold based predominantly in the 70's. The blend can lean pop or rock, depending on the market. A time buyer who would be hesitant to buy a station labeled as "oldies" would definitely consider classic hits stations like WCBS-FM, WOGL, KOOL-FM and KRTH.

 

[semoochie]

First off, I disagree that "Paint It Black" isn't Classic Rock. You're going after the wrong people. Softer rock based older hit stations were called "Classic Hits" YEARS before updated Oldies stations used the name! One of these two should find a different name. There is a clear difference between a hit based station and one that is rock based but only plays hits!

 

[RBW]

A time buyer who would be hesitant to buy a station labeled as "oldies" would definitely consider classic hits stations like WCBS-FM, WOGL, KOOL-FM and KRTH.

So, what we have here, are definitions geared to simplify time buying?

After all- the "average" (or casual) listener probably has no idea what his/her favorite station is "labeled as". They stop - they hear a song - they listen again, and if they like it, that's it.

For the rest of us... these classifications are often difficult to keep track of as time and tastes evolve along with changing demographics.

It seems "Real Oldies" are the only ones left still using the 'oldies' moniker. Then again... oldies were often NOT oldies! (at least to some of us)

 

[davideduardo]

So, what we have here, are definitions geared to simplify time buying?

Yep. The format "descriptions" listed in published ratings rankers and such are there for the convenience of those interested in the data.

In the case of Arbitron data, Arbitron has a list of format descriptions that each station must select from, and these can be made to appear in reports run in Arbitron software. If a station's management does not fin their "exact" format listed, they pick the closest one... or, sometimes... the one the think advertisers favor. If a station totally misidentifies a format to Arbitron, other subscribers can object and get the description reviewed (like a hard rocker calling themselves Adult Contemporary because they think AC is more sales frinedly!).

On air, stations can position however they like... format names are what each station makes out of them. In some cases, saying what a station is not doing is a position, too, as in "no hip hop" or the old "between a rock and a soft place."

 

[davideduardo]

First off, I disagree that "Paint It Black" isn't Classic Rock. You're going after the wrong people. Softer rock based older hit stations were called "Classic Hits" YEARS before updated Oldies stations used the name! One of these two should find a different name. There is a clear difference between a hit based station and one that is rock based but only plays hits!

For sales, and that is what these labels are about, the rock stations were generally sold as Classic Rock while the newer 70's core CHR hits format is Classic Hits.

Again, on the air it's open season...

 

[semoochie]

Are you saying that the old Classic Hits stations were/are sold as Classic Rock? That's even worse because they're more female friendly than standard Classic Rock. What if Budwiser sees the Classic Rock moniker and buys the station, based on that? They'll end up with far more women and defeat the purpose of the sale.

 

[davideduardo]

Are you saying that the old Classic Hits stations were/are sold as Classic Rock? That's even worse because they're more female friendly than standard Classic Rock. What if Budwiser sees the Classic Rock moniker and buys the station, based on that? They'll end up with far more women and defeat the purpose of the sale.

No, classic hits is sold as classic hits. The fact that Arbitron publishes the format descriptors with the ratings data prevents anyone from going too far afield, as a competitor can and should complain.

 

[semoochie]

I feel as if I'm banging my head against the wall. There are 2 separate formats that call themselves "Classic Hits" on the air and in trade publications. The first has been using the term commonly for well over a decade. It consists of hit songs that are rock based. It's different from Classic Rock because it only plays hits and some of them are softer, but with a rock base, such as "America". This gives it more of a female lean than Classic Rock. The new definition of Classic Hits is anything hit based from the mid-60s through 70s and sometimes into the 80s. These are 2 separate formats with 2 separate audiences but using the same name. You said that for sales, the rock stations(which I took to mean the rock based stations using the Classic Hits moniker)were sold as Classic Rock but when I asked about it, you said that Classic Hits is sold as Classic Hits. Which Classic Hits format are you talking about, the one that's rock based or hit based?

 

[davideduardo]

I feel as if I'm banging my head against the wall. There are 2 separate formats that call themselves "Classic Hits" on the air and in trade publications. The first has been using the term commonly for well over a decade. It consists of hit songs that are rock based. It's different from Classic Rock because it only plays hits and some of them are softer, but with a rock base, such as "America". This gives it more of a female lean than Classic Rock. The new definition of Classic Hits is anything hit based from the mid-60s through 70s and sometimes into the 80s. These are 2 separate formats with 2 separate audiences but using the same name. You said that for sales, the rock stations(which I took to mean the rock based stations using the Classic Hits moniker)were sold as Classic Rock but when I asked about it, you said that Classic Hits is sold as Classic Hits. Which Classic Hits format are you talking about, the one that's rock based or hit based?

Classic Rock = AOR derived rock gold.
Classic Hits = CHR derived pop gold
Classic Country = Country derived country gold (redundant, yes)
Classic Salsa = Salsa derivitive based on afroantillean songs of the 60's, 70's and later.

Classic rock was never described by stations to advertisers as classic hits.

As I said, on the air, stations can call themselves whatever they want. On air descriptors and format positioners are not regulated in any manner. Arbitron does, to the extent practical, regulate format descriptions used by stations for the purpose of ad sales by means of procedures it uses to allow or disalllow specific terms generally and by stations themselves specifically.

 

[vchimpanzee]

However, I am not happy about all the Classic Rock stations beginning to do do the same.

This was said here already, but I'll repeat it. It is not a recent phenomenon. The rock-leaning stations were the only ones using the term "classic hits". Oldies stations only recently began doing it.

I remembered another use of the term. It seems Jack stations are called classic hits in most cases on the ratings site I go to. I told the person and was just ignored. Even though the first time I asked for a format to be corrected the person claimed he was trying to be accurate.

A lot of these AC stations that are not soft are still being called soft AC on that site too.

I did succeed in getting the man to change one of the soft AC stations. It was actually adult standards, by today's definition of the term. Or even easy listening, even though most people expect that description to mean lots of instrumentals. However, I called the station a few months ago and the man claimed soft AC is what they were. Never mind that they're not "contemporary" in the least. Yes they were, he said. He can lie like that all he wants when he's not in court. He claims advertisers want to deal with soft AC stations, and he made a point of saying a station his company owned, which was softer than almost any AC on the air today, was mainstream. Now the station went rhythmic and there may have even been an interim format I didn't hear. Someone said so on Wikipedia. As for that first station's Wikipedia article, it was soft AC for the longest time before I fixed it. I told the person who had changed it months earlier. He said Arbitron said it was soft AC. Arbitron is wrong, I told him. Of course, Arbitron will only accept the word of the station or another station. And since the market has no soift AC, I guess no one has a reason to complain.

 

[davideduardo]

The rock-leaning stations were the only ones using the term "classic hits". Oldies stations only recently began doing it.

Not for sales, where the Arbitron term "classic hits" was created quite recently for 70's based pop gold stations that did not want to be called "oldies."

"Oldies" stations do not call themselves "classic hits." Oldies stations are listed as oldies in Arbitron and Classic Hits ones are listed under that format name.

I remembered another use of the term. It seems Jack stations are called classic hits in most cases on the ratings site I go to.

Some ratings sites apply their own format names. One site has nearly half of the stations of the company I am with listed wrong.

"Adult Hits" is the Arbitron descriptor for stations with names of guys that play pop / rock from the 70's, 80's, 90's and on.

A lot of these AC stations that are not soft are still being called soft AC on that site too.

One of the points considered in calling an AC Hot or Soft is rotations and average age. "Soft" is not the same term it used to be when talking about AC.

Or even easy listening, even though most people expect that description to mean lots of instrumentals.

Easy listening is very soft or traditional AC. Beautiful Music is the instrumental based format.

He said Arbitron said it was soft AC. Arbitron is wrong, I told him. Of course, Arbitron will only accept the word of the station or another station.

Arbitron sends out an update form that stations fill out. The format names must be selected from the choices Arbitron provides and new names are created only if there is a significant number of genericly similar formats in the US. Stations and the public can check the Arbitron station Information On File for each station and verify formats and slogans. If a competitor finds inaccurate data, they can notify Arbitron and the matter will be investigated, and the result in my experience is always accurate.

Again, on the air a station can call itself anything it wants. What makes a station belong to one format or another is very subjective; the charts prepared by trades and companies like MediaBase used consultants or experts to define if a station is eligable for forming part of one chart or another... but in gold based formats, it's pretty much open season on names and format descriptions!

 

[semoochie]

Never in my wildest dreams did I think that "real" Classic Rock would be described as Classic Hits. You seem to be saying that stations airing the original definition of Classic Hits are sold as Classic Rock and if that's the case, they're doing a tremendous disservice to their advertisers because they aren't the same format. Classic Rock doesn't depend on hits but rather a general familiarity with the songs, based on what used to be AOR. This definition of Classic Hits is predominantly rock based hit songs, that appeal more to women than standard Classic Rock. The new definition of Classic Hits is completely different from either of these, has no special tie in to guitar based music and is solely hit based, rooted in Top 40. What I perceive from your statement is the equivalent of saying that oranges and tangerines are the same thing because they're both orange!

 

[Seltzer]

Classic Hit stations really come in two forms:

1. "Oldies" stations that have evolved to include "pure pop" and "soul" product from the late 60s-early 80s. CBS FM, WOGL, WODS, etc come to mind. These stations will play "rock" songs that were legit Top 40 hits..ala Rock N Me Steve Miller, Feel Like Makin Love-Bad Company, Sweet Home Alabama-Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc

2. "Rock Hits" stations of the 60s thru the 80s. Some of these stations have moved into the 90s. They play the "legit" Rock Top 40 hits mentioned above, and usually some LP cuts by Led Zeppelin, etc at night. These stations also include the "soft artists" that the AOR stations played in the early 70s--James Taylor, Carole King, Carly Simon, Cat Stevens, etc. Plenty of Elton John & Billy Joel usually in the mix.

When I hear "Dancing In The Moonlight" or "Brandy" on the above type of Classic Hits station, I cringe. Too poppy to me.

Classic Rock to me is usually all the above, minus the Softer artists. To me, only the Rockier Billy Joel & Elton John songs should be played on these stations. "Sat Nite Alright For Fightin, Funeral For A Friend, the Bitch Is Back---yes, Daniel, Your Song, no More album cuts especially nights and weekends.

 

[rockhitsradio]

Is "Classic Top 40" a new term? I have seen a couple of fm stations using it.
Someone from another group think when they see "classic" they think of classical?

 

[deltas69]

can't understand why you can't play them all...same guy that grew up listening to "she loves ya"..also likes "paradise by the dashboard light"..the rock pie has become so fragmented with sub niche's, stations are afraid to play this or that...because they might lose a precious listener..never understood the mentality of "quarter hour"...hell if i've got a station..i want them 24/7..not just for a quarter hour..if your doing it right...thats what you SHOULD have...of course i'm being over simplistic in my point here... :

 

[vchimpanzee]

Is "Classic Top 40" a new term? I have seen a couple of fm stations using it.
Someone from another group think when they see "classic" they think of classical?

Mike Harvey uses the term to describe his classic hits/oldies show.