CLASSIC OLDIES: WHY CAN'T AN ATLANTA STATION DO THIS ?

[DiamondDave]

I am listening to iHeart Radio, selecting WMTR in Morristown, NJ. What a wonderful mix of songs from the 50's, 60's and 70's. They have a website that lists the last 100 songs played.
It is really disgusting that the Atlanta radio dial cannot include a mix like this! I have heard
for years that "oldies stations cannot make money". To that I say "WRONG" !! Just take a look at some of the music they have played in the past couple of hours. COX MEDIA,
CLEAR CHANNEL, CUMULUS and all the rest: YOU ARE MISSING THE BOAT. This music
must return to the Atlanta dial. By the way WMTR is an AM station. Maybe someone from
an Atlanta station is reading this. And Maybe someone can just hope and imagine this
music returning to the Atlanta radio dial. This music is so good. I hate to turn it off.
Any comments on the playlist below ?


Sam Cooke
Cupid

Righteous Brothers
Unchained Melody

Chicago
Make Me Smile

Doris Troy
Just One Look

Neil Diamond
Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show

Supremes
Where Did Our Love Go

Spanky & Our Gang
Lazy Day

Petula Clark
Downtown

Beatles
Help!

Elvis Presley
Kentucky Rain

Four Seasons
Dawn (Go Away)

Paul Anka
Puppy Love

Jorgen Ingmann
Apache

Marvin Gaye
Ain't That Peculiar

Paul Simon
Mother And Child Reunion

Dusty Springfield
Wishin' and Hopin'

Orlons
Don't Hang Up

Rascals
People Got To Be Free

Bobby Vee
The Night Has A Thousand Eyes

Beach Boys
Help Me Rhonda

Jim Croce
Operator

Marvelettes
Too Many Fish In The Sea

Sam Cooke
Having A Party

Donovan
Mellow Yellow

Vogues
Five O'Clock World

Box Tops
Cry Like A Baby

B.J. Thomas
Hooked On A Feeling

James Taylor
Your Smiling Face

Fifth Dimension
Stoned Soul Picnic

R.B. Greaves
Take A Letter Maria

Supremes
Stop! In The Name Of Love

Everly Brothers
Bird Dog

Dionne Warwick
Anyone Who Had A Heart

Classics IV
Traces

Neil Diamond
Cracklin' Rosie

Wayne Fontana & The Mindbenders
Game Of Love

Jimmy Jones
Handy Man

Beatles
A Hard Day's Night

==================================
Give a listen on iHeart to WMTR.

Comments appreciated---Thanks !!

 

[R.D.P.]

I know you won't like it but there may not be enough business support for this format.

However, you could possibly set up a non-commercial LPFM Oldies station for Atlanta, when the next filing window opens.

All you Oldies fans could ban together and see if it's even possible for a new LPFM to be built there.

Once you got it built, then you could some heavy advertising and tell the people about your product.

They might be compelled to give a contribution to help keep you going.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. And yes I plan on pursuing a LPFM of my own, once the new filing window opens.  Would like to serve a niche audience with my own LPFM.  You know cater to something that no one else is currently doing. 

 

[amlover]

It seems like a no brainer to me, put Scott Shannon's True Oldies back on the dial and let it rip.

 

[BIGSTICK]

Baby you are preaching to me...I am still listening to WSB HD2@ and they are currently playing Dions. Runaway....But I get buttfued every time I mention this format for ATL. ??? ??? ???

 

[jabba17]

Considering ATL doesn't have a 70s/80s classic hits station anymore, a 50s/60s golden oldies station is probably too far of a reach.

 

[Wildstyle K]

I've been dying to ask; Is everyone sure that an oldies format of some sort couldn't work in Atl.? Or is this another one of those cases where people believe it cannot work simply because it's not currently on the radio or because it failed before?

After all, there was once a time when CHR could never work in Atl.... up until the point it was successfully tried again - in a proper manner.

There was a time when B98.5 evolving to a modern style AC could never work. But that was also only up until the point when it was successfully done.

Now I wonder if I can apply this same theory of hypothesis to oldies in Atlanta?

I remember the only format I really ever said wouldn't work in Atl was rhythmic ac (and we all see how that went) but I do question whether or not oldies could be successful again in Atl.

 

[bnaivar]

Here's how it was explained to me, and unfortunately, it makes a lot of sense;

Radio is all about commercials. It doesn't matter what format. People in the 18 to 35 listening audience may not have the big money, but are willing to listen to a commercial and try something new. Older listeners have the big money, but if they are a Coke drinker, you can play Dr. Pepper spots all day long and they won't switch from Coke. So, Oldies formats can't get advertisers because they know that the listeners are either already buying their products or aren't going to switch to them.

I hate to say it, but I'm in the older group of listeners. I want the Oldies music, but I don't think a radio spot would make me change the products I already buy. :-[

 

[Jay Walker]

I know it's not the same as a "live/local" oldies outlet, but you may want to give this one a listen.
98.7 KLUV HD-2 in Dallas plays a huge playlist of 50's-70's oldies and because it is an HD-2 there are minimal commercial interruptions.

Here's the link:
http://betaplayer.radio.com/player/k-luv-oldies

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

People in the 18 to 35 listening audience may not have the big money, but are willing to listen to a commercial and try something new. Older listeners have the big money, but if they are a Coke drinker, you can play Dr. Pepper spots all day long and they won't switch from Coke. So, Oldies formats can't get advertisers because they know that the listeners are either already buying their products or aren't going to switch to them.

Yes, what you relayed is "the conventional wisdom" that is easy to trot out. For "the big boys" with the big investment bucks, the business logic says build an audience of the kind of listener who will soak-up and respond to traditional advertising.

In a market with 15, 20, 25 viable signals, if you have one of the facilities that is not able to compete for Number One, Two or even Number Seven in audience size, you start looking for "the un-conventional wisdom" to make your station a producer.

I like the example. You are banging your head against a wall to try and convert the life-long Coke drinker over to Dr. Pepper or maybe Pepsi. Once in a while you can find someone who will switch but as the cotton farmer says... It's 'slim pickens' to try and make a living doing that.

But what if you are a creative kind of soul who sits down and ponders: What are some of the things a person 55 or older has always wanted to do but didn't have the time or money or had family responsibilities that kept that person from "living their dream". What are the possibilities of convincing such a listener that now they can take those flying lessons they always wanted. I hear the three-wheel touring motorcycles are popular with the supposedly set-in-their-ways crowd. It is a crowd that probably won't stop buying Wheaties at Kroger and switch to Honey-Bunches-of-Oats just because of a radio commercial, but it is a crowd that might consider some new recipes using ingredients you almost have to go to Harry's or Whole Foods to find. (Once you have made it over the career hump... or accepted the fact you are never getting over the hump into the big time career, you can free up some time to try learning to cook, learning woodworking, learning photography or maybe fly-fishing.)

If you hang out with "the mature crowd" at your church, your civic club, or the neighborhood tavern... just listen to the conversation. No, they are not going to walk away from Shell gasoline or Crest toothpaste or Coca-Cola... but the room will be full of people talking about their new ventures into sewing, or scrap-booking, furniture restoring, or looking for media and formats to pass the family genealogy along to future generations. Radio may not be THE VEHICLE for vendors of some of those activites... but there is a lot of room to find some "virgin soil" to plant a new radio crop.

I've probably bought more books in the last 5 to 10 years than the rest of my life put together. My life-long collection of small power tools (drills, sanders, table-saw) are all wearing out one by one because I keep them more active than ever. I may be a loyal Coke consumer because I drink one just about every day. But I have no brand loyalty when it comes to power tools and hand tools or scrap-booking supplies

Broadcasting has long been a refuge for those who are creative. But I guess those days are over. We have no broadcasters who are smart enough to understand the mature listener?

 

[bnaivar]

People in the 18 to 35 listening audience may not have the big money, but are willing to listen to a commercial and try something new. Older listeners have the big money, but if they are a Coke drinker, you can play Dr. Pepper spots all day long and they won't switch from Coke. So, Oldies formats can't get advertisers because they know that the listeners are either already buying their products or aren't going to switch to them.

Yes, what you relayed is "the conventional wisdom" that is easy to trot out. For "the big boys" with the big investment bucks, the business logic says build an audience of the kind of listener who will soak-up and respond to traditional advertising.

In a market with 15, 20, 25 viable signals, if you have one of the facilities that is not able to compete for Number One, Two or even Number Seven in audience size, you start looking for "the un-conventional wisdom" to make your station a producer.

I like the example. You are banging your head against a wall to try and convert the life-long Coke drinker over to Dr. Pepper or maybe Pepsi. Once in a while you can find someone who will switch but as the cotton farmer says... It's 'slim pickens' to try and make a living doing that.

But what if you are a creative kind of soul who sits down and ponders: What are some of the things a person 55 or older has always wanted to do but didn't have the time or money or had family responsibilities that kept that person from "living their dream". What are the possibilities of convincing such a listener that now they can take those flying lessons they always wanted. I hear the three-wheel touring motorcycles are popular with the supposedly set-in-their-ways crowd. It is a crowd that probably won't stop buying Wheaties at Kroger and switch to Honey-Bunches-of-Oats just because of a radio commercial, but it is a crowd that might consider some new recipes using ingredients you almost have to go to Harry's or Whole Foods to find. (Once you have made it over the career hump... or accepted the fact you are never getting over the hump into the big time career, you can free up some time to try learning to cook, learning woodworking, learning photography or maybe fly-fishing.)

If you hang out with "the mature crowd" at your church, your civic club, or the neighborhood tavern... just listen to the conversation. No, they are not going to walk away from Shell gasoline or Crest toothpaste or Coca-Cola... but the room will be full of people talking about their new ventures into sewing, or scrap-booking, furniture restoring, or looking for media and formats to pass the family genealogy along to future generations. Radio may not be THE VEHICLE for vendors of some of those activites... but there is a lot of room to find some "virgin soil" to plant a new radio crop.

I've probably bought more books in the last 5 to 10 years than the rest of my life put together. My life-long collection of small power tools (drills, sanders, table-saw) are all wearing out one by one because I keep them more active than ever. I may be a loyal Coke consumer because I drink one just about every day. But I have no brand loyalty when it comes to power tools and hand tools or scrap-booking supplies

Broadcasting has long been a refuge for those who are creative. But I guess those days are over. We have no broadcasters who are smart enough to understand the mature listener?

...or salespeople that are willing to leave their comfort zone?

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

^^^Agree with all of this!!!!!^^^

bnaivar- I often wonder the same thing...perhaps part of the problem is in the laziness or lack of creativity in sales departments.

Goat Rodeo Cowboy - Good points about brand loyalty. Seriously, I'm always told the same advertising argument about oldies radio. The same commercials are on every station anyways since radio is just massive conglomerates, so I don't know why people are so quick to panic about advertising. I don't know people (under 55) who sit in their car and say, "wow that Dr. Pepper commercial makes me want to stop now and have one", or "I gotta get to Home Depot". We already know about all these products and places and will go there when we need to, but generic radio spots isn't building any following or brand loyalty. There is ABSOLUTELY more room for other business to use radio as an outlet however.

 

[KFodor]

Well, I don't know a whole lot about the Atlanta market. But, as an oldies programmer, I totally understand why the format was "pushed forward" ten years into the 80's. It did have to happen for these stations to be salable commercially.

BUT...that having been said, I think that sometimes radio in general throws the baby out with the bath water when it makes a move like that.

I mean...look at WCBS-FM in New York. They still play some, not all, but some of the early years songs, and they do ok. (#2 6+ last time I looked.)

How could you say you're an "oldies" station, or classic hits and not play an Elvis song once in a while?

The fact is: some songs of each of the major Top 40 eras has had songs that can be, in time, considered "timeless". Granted, it's a small number of titles. But those songs deserve to be on the air even today. You just sprinkle them in...instead of pounding them every hour.

Not every song from those years is timeless. But the ones that truly are deserve continued air play.

However, those of you considering LP-FM's to "play all those wonderful songs", a word of caution: playing stiffs doesn't work. Nobody cares about your 10,000 song oldies collection, except those 2 or 3 record collectors that live in their basement kissing their 45's every day. You don't win playing to record collectors. I know. I tried it. And got the crappy ratings to show for it.

I run a successful LP-FM in a small town in Ohio. We run a not-quite 600 song list, updated yearly, and about a 1,400 song universe. It's 50's to the 80's and I get zero complaints. We run a Doo Wop Show on the weekends, and a deep tracks show, too.

But the new definition of oldies is here to stay. Take it from this programmer whose pushing 60...

 

[KFodor]

People in the 18 to 35 listening audience may not have the big money, but are willing to listen to a commercial and try something new. Older listeners have the big money, but if they are a Coke drinker, you can play Dr. Pepper spots all day long and they won't switch from Coke. So, Oldies formats can't get advertisers because they know that the listeners are either already buying their products or aren't going to switch to them.

You keep saying it's "salespeople". True in some cases, since salespeople will complain to their managers about the old-fart demos. In reality, it's the 18-35 year old ad buyers who know that advertisers will use means other than radio to reach the 55 plus crowd. If the advertisers would support a station with a heavy 55 plus audience, your traditional oldies stations would survive. But the facts are...there's little advertiser support for the older audience, which is why the format had, for its survival, to be pushed forward.

Yes, what you relayed is "the conventional wisdom" that is easy to trot out. For "the big boys" with the big investment bucks, the business logic says build an audience of the kind of listener who will soak-up and respond to traditional advertising.

In a market with 15, 20, 25 viable signals, if you have one of the facilities that is not able to compete for Number One, Two or even Number Seven in audience size, you start looking for "the un-conventional wisdom" to make your station a producer.

I like the example. You are banging your head against a wall to try and convert the life-long Coke drinker over to Dr. Pepper or maybe Pepsi. Once in a while you can find someone who will switch but as the cotton farmer says... It's 'slim pickens' to try and make a living doing that.

But what if you are a creative kind of soul who sits down and ponders: What are some of the things a person 55 or older has always wanted to do but didn't have the time or money or had family responsibilities that kept that person from "living their dream". What are the possibilities of convincing such a listener that now they can take those flying lessons they always wanted. I hear the three-wheel touring motorcycles are popular with the supposedly set-in-their-ways crowd. It is a crowd that probably won't stop buying Wheaties at Kroger and switch to Honey-Bunches-of-Oats just because of a radio commercial, but it is a crowd that might consider some new recipes using ingredients you almost have to go to Harry's or Whole Foods to find. (Once you have made it over the career hump... or accepted the fact you are never getting over the hump into the big time career, you can free up some time to try learning to cook, learning woodworking, learning photography or maybe fly-fishing.)

If you hang out with "the mature crowd" at your church, your civic club, or the neighborhood tavern... just listen to the conversation. No, they are not going to walk away from Shell gasoline or Crest toothpaste or Coca-Cola... but the room will be full of people talking about their new ventures into sewing, or scrap-booking, furniture restoring, or looking for media and formats to pass the family genealogy along to future generations. Radio may not be THE VEHICLE for vendors of some of those activites... but there is a lot of room to find some "virgin soil" to plant a new radio crop.

I've probably bought more books in the last 5 to 10 years than the rest of my life put together. My life-long collection of small power tools (drills, sanders, table-saw) are all wearing out one by one because I keep them more active than ever. I may be a loyal Coke consumer because I drink one just about every day. But I have no brand loyalty when it comes to power tools and hand tools or scrap-booking supplies

Broadcasting has long been a refuge for those who are creative. But I guess those days are over. We have no broadcasters who are smart enough to understand the mature listener?

...or salespeople that are willing to leave their comfort zone?

 

[KFodor]

People in the 18 to 35 listening audience may not have the big money, but are willing to listen to a commercial and try something new. Older listeners have the big money, but if they are a Coke drinker, you can play Dr. Pepper spots all day long and they won't switch from Coke. So, Oldies formats can't get advertisers because they know that the listeners are either already buying their products or aren't going to switch to them.

Yes, what you relayed is "the conventional wisdom" that is easy to trot out. For "the big boys" with the big investment bucks, the business logic says build an audience of the kind of listener who will soak-up and respond to traditional advertising.

In a market with 15, 20, 25 viable signals, if you have one of the facilities that is not able to compete for Number One, Two or even Number Seven in audience size, you start looking for "the un-conventional wisdom" to make your station a producer.

I like the example. You are banging your head against a wall to try and convert the life-long Coke drinker over to Dr. Pepper or maybe Pepsi. Once in a while you can find someone who will switch but as the cotton farmer says... It's 'slim pickens' to try and make a living doing that.

But what if you are a creative kind of soul who sits down and ponders: What are some of the things a person 55 or older has always wanted to do but didn't have the time or money or had family responsibilities that kept that person from "living their dream". What are the possibilities of convincing such a listener that now they can take those flying lessons they always wanted. I hear the three-wheel touring motorcycles are popular with the supposedly set-in-their-ways crowd. It is a crowd that probably won't stop buying Wheaties at Kroger and switch to Honey-Bunches-of-Oats just because of a radio commercial, but it is a crowd that might consider some new recipes using ingredients you almost have to go to Harry's or Whole Foods to find. (Once you have made it over the career hump... or accepted the fact you are never getting over the hump into the big time career, you can free up some time to try learning to cook, learning woodworking, learning photography or maybe fly-fishing.)

If you hang out with "the mature crowd" at your church, your civic club, or the neighborhood tavern... just listen to the conversation. No, they are not going to walk away from Shell gasoline or Crest toothpaste or Coca-Cola... but the room will be full of people talking about their new ventures into sewing, or scrap-booking, furniture restoring, or looking for media and formats to pass the family genealogy along to future generations. Radio may not be THE VEHICLE for vendors of some of those activites... but there is a lot of room to find some "virgin soil" to plant a new radio crop.

I've probably bought more books in the last 5 to 10 years than the rest of my life put together. My life-long collection of small power tools (drills, sanders, table-saw) are all wearing out one by one because I keep them more active than ever. I may be a loyal Coke consumer because I drink one just about every day. But I have no brand loyalty when it comes to power tools and hand tools or scrap-booking supplies

Broadcasting has long been a refuge for those who are creative. But I guess those days are over. We have no broadcasters who are smart enough to understand the mature listener?

...or salespeople that are willing to leave their comfort zone?

My apologies for hitting the wrong button on my previous post

You keep saying it's "salespeople". True in some cases, since salespeople will complain to their managers about the old-fart demos. In reality, it's the 18-35 year old ad buyers who know that advertisers will use means other than radio to reach the 55 plus crowd. If the advertisers would support a station with a heavy 55 plus audience, your traditional oldies stations would survive. But the facts are...there's little advertiser support for the older audience, which is why the format had, for its survival, to be pushed forward.

 

[trusty]

...or salespeople that are willing to leave their comfort zone?

Maybe you can't persuade older Coke drinkers to drink Dr. Pepper, but you CAN tell them the best grocery store where they can buy their Coke. Maybe you can't get one to change from Chevys to Fords, but you CAN tell which dealership has the best deals on Chevys.

Also, there is a growing needs for pharmacy items, etc. It requires LOCAL salespeople to get creative and study their listener's needs. (I guess that means doing a little work.) :

--

Oldies CAN work in Atlanta - if done right. The problem is that stations have screwed with it, got bad results, then blamed them on the format itself.
Example: When WYAY dropped country, they picked up True Oldies which had a pretty deep playlist. Then they messed it up:
1. by adding new programs that uncomfortably tightened the playlist
2. by messing with the processing which made the listening undesirable
The result was a format arrived at by compromise - no real "energy" or fun to it.

Anyway, the format, especially in the uniqueness of Atlanta, requires care and development, qualities that are almost impossible to find today.

More later...

 

[amlover]

Good music is good music period. Elvis never recorded a bad record. If Atlanta does not want an oldies station so what I got my own and so does everybody else. It's called an iPod or a number of many devices to get their music. Let all the FM'S play the same thing!

 

[secondchoice]

They say the 55+ folks are impossible to market new stuff too. My parents listen to satellite radio in the new car. BTW they switched from Chrysler to Ford last year. Now Dad is interested in upgrading is cell plan so he can stream Pandora in the car. You know these old folks are set in their ways!

 

[KFodor]

They say the 55+ folks are impossible to market new stuff too. My parents listen to satellite radio in the new car. BTW they switched from Chrysler to Ford last year. Now Dad is interested in upgrading is cell plan so he can stream Pandora in the car. You know these old folks are set in their ways!

There is no argument that this is true. The problem is - getting ad buyers to believe it. They were trained by their know-nothing college professors who are teaching from manuals long outdated.

Add to this, some newby radio sales folks who can't meet an objection from an ad buyer or client because they haven't developed the "relationship" between salesperson and buyer (giving the buyer tremendous leverage)...and add to it the fact that advertisers use means other than radio to reach the 55 plus crowd they are apparently satisfied with...and there's the rub.

There are radio companies who have tried to tell advertisers these facts. We're told, "When are you going to play some newer music to get younger listeners".

I know some of you don't want to believe this...but it's true.

 

[HippieGuy]

Totally agree. I 'see' so many nostalgia stations in other cities and all seem to do well.

I listen to WMTR as well. Also, WHLI AM from Long Island...all nostalgia of the old, Music of a lifetime' genre. WHLI just celebrated their 65th anniversary this week...same constant format.

Thank God for 'internet'