Classic Rock, Classic Hits ...Whats the difference between the two formats?

[jermster82]

Hello my friends

First I will start by saying I LOVE the new big 100.3 it is a breath of fresh air. It seems more and more stations are going to the "classic hits" format, BIG is classic hits ARW is Classic rock. Below are some observations I have noticed in both formats there are also station listings, you'll see where I am going with this. I hope someone will be able to read this and draw the distinction between the two formats cause this has puzzled me for years, so read on and enjoy

OK DC and Balto, The classic rock stations are

WARW 94.7 Washington
WZBA 100.7 Baltimore

Here are the classic hits stations.

On a good day there is WYCR in York PA
WWEG 106.9 Hagerstown
WBIG Washington

Now that we have the stations broken down, here is what I don't get. What makes a station classic "rock" ? and what makes a station classic "hits" below are artist that I have heard on BOTH formats wich is why I wrote this post

David Bowie
Bob Segar
Gary Wright
Steve Miller
Boston
Jackson Brown
The Beatles
The Who
Billy Joel
Elton John

Thanks for taking the time to read this post, in closing the artists I memtioned above were hitmakers in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Who can draw the line between classic rock and classic hits?

C ya later

The Jermster

 

[dmine45]

> Hello my friends
>
> First I will start by saying I LOVE the new big 100.3 it is
> a breath of fresh air. It seems more and more stations are
> going to the "classic hits" format, BIG is classic hits ARW
> is Classic rock.

Unfortunately, ARW is classic hits that sometimes plays a classic rock song, and claims to be a "classic rock" station. Wish they would make up their mind what they really are.

> Now that we have the stations broken down, here is what I
> don't get. What makes a station classic "rock" ? and what
> makes a station classic "hits" below are artist that I have
> heard on BOTH formats wich is why I wrote this post

Classic Hits = Music that was in the Top 40 when it was released, probably was on a Top 40 station. It was released as a single (45 RPM record) and played on many radio stations. It had wide appeal then, still does. Groups like the Beatles. Billy Joel, Elton John fit this group.

Classic Rock = Music that was relegated to FM radio on hard rock stations, even when many people were still listening to AM. These were called AOR (Album Oriented Rock) because they usually played cuts from an album (33 1/3 RPM) as most of these songs were never released as a single. These were the "alternative" songs of the day. Very little appeal outside of the young (18-25) age group at that time (by now, many are in their 50s!). Groups like Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix fit this group.

> David Bowie
Could be both hit and rock.

> Bob Segar
Classic hit.

> Gary Wright
Not familiar with this one.

> Steve Miller
Definately classic hit.

> Boston
Classic hit, though many classic rock stations play this to death.

> Jackson Brown
ZZZZZZZZZZZ. Classic hit.

> The Beatles
Classic hit. Though you may hear "Yellow Submarine" on a classic rock station.

> The Who
Could be both, leans towards classic rock.

> Billy Joel
Classic hit. Played to death.

> Elton John
Classic hit. Should NEVER NEVER be played on a hard Classic Rock station!

> Thanks for taking the time to read this post, in closing the
> artists I memtioned above were hitmakers in the 60s, 70s and
> 80s. Who can draw the line between classic rock and classic
> hits?

See above. DC really has never been a good rock town. I grew up in Pittsburgh listening to WDVE (still a decent rock station, even though Cheap Channel tries to muck it up).

I gave up on finding a real rock station in the DC area and pretty much have gone sat rad. WARW.. WBIG.. who cares! Both suck.

I listen to XM 41 (Boneyard) which does OK in the harder rock area, but Sirius 19 (Buzzsaw) does a better job.

- Dave

 

[RJF]

The formats are very similar. One difference is the "core artists". Classic Rock stations have Led Zep, The Who, Beatles, Queen, Clapton, Hendrix, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, Steve Miller, and recently have added AC/DC and The Police to their core artist list. Classic Hits stations overlap with Elton John, The Beatles, Steve Miller, etc, but have a different selection of songs at times. They will play 1980's Elton John and later (more mellow) Fleetwood Mac that the Classic Rockers don't play, and the classic rockers dig a bit deeper into groups like The Beatles back catelogue. Classic hits stations also have people like Billy Joel and BTO in their core artist list, and while the classic rockers play them too, it's not nearly as frequent. Unfortunately Classic Rock stations are not digging deep enough and beat the same "Freebird" songs into the ground... Classic Hits has always done that.







> > Hello my friends
> >
> > First I will start by saying I LOVE the new big 100.3 it
> is
> > a breath of fresh air. It seems more and more stations
> are
> > going to the "classic hits" format, BIG is classic hits
> ARW
> > is Classic rock.
>
> Unfortunately, ARW is classic hits that sometimes plays a
> classic rock song, and claims to be a "classic rock"
> station. Wish they would make up their mind what they really
> are.
>
> > Now that we have the stations broken down, here is what I
> > don't get. What makes a station classic "rock" ? and what
>
> > makes a station classic "hits" below are artist that I
> have
> > heard on BOTH formats wich is why I wrote this post
>
> Classic Hits = Music that was in the Top 40 when it was
> released, probably was on a Top 40 station. It was released
> as a single (45 RPM record) and played on many radio
> stations. It had wide appeal then, still does. Groups like
> the Beatles. Billy Joel, Elton John fit this group.
>
> Classic Rock = Music that was relegated to FM radio on hard
> rock stations, even when many people were still listening to
> AM. These were called AOR (Album Oriented Rock) because they
> usually played cuts from an album (33 1/3 RPM) as most of
> these songs were never released as a single. These were the
> "alternative" songs of the day. Very little appeal outside
> of the young (18-25) age group at that time (by now, many
> are in their 50s!). Groups like Led Zeppelin and Jimi
> Hendrix fit this group.
>
> > David Bowie
> Could be both hit and rock.
>
> > Bob Segar
> Classic hit.
>
> > Gary Wright
> Not familiar with this one.
>
> > Steve Miller
> Definately classic hit.
>
> > Boston
> Classic hit, though many classic rock stations play this to
> death.
>
> > Jackson Brown
> ZZZZZZZZZZZ. Classic hit.
>
> > The Beatles
> Classic hit. Though you may hear "Yellow Submarine" on a
> classic rock station.
>
> > The Who
> Could be both, leans towards classic rock.
>
> > Billy Joel
> Classic hit. Played to death.
>
> > Elton John
> Classic hit. Should NEVER NEVER be played on a hard Classic
> Rock station!
>
> > Thanks for taking the time to read this post, in closing
> the
> > artists I memtioned above were hitmakers in the 60s, 70s
> and
> > 80s. Who can draw the line between classic rock and
> classic
> > hits?
>
> See above. DC really has never been a good rock town. I grew
> up in Pittsburgh listening to WDVE (still a decent rock
> station, even though Cheap Channel tries to muck it up).
>
> I gave up on finding a real rock station in the DC area and
> pretty much have gone sat rad. WARW.. WBIG.. who cares! Both
> suck.
>
> I listen to XM 41 (Boneyard) which does OK in the harder
> rock area, but Sirius 19 (Buzzsaw) does a better job.
>
> - Dave
>

 

[Steve_Willett]

Classic Rock appeals to male listeners and Classic Hits appeals to females.

> The formats are very similar. One difference is the "core
> artists". Classic Rock stations have Led Zep, The Who,
> Beatles, Queen, Clapton, Hendrix, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John,
> Steve Miller, and recently have added AC/DC and The Police
> to their core artist list. Classic Hits stations overlap
> with Elton John, The Beatles, Steve Miller, etc, but have a
> different selection of songs at times. They will play
> 1980's Elton John and later (more mellow) Fleetwood Mac that
> the Classic Rockers don't play, and the classic rockers dig
> a bit deeper into groups like The Beatles back catelogue.
> Classic hits stations also have people like Billy Joel and
> BTO in their core artist list, and while the classic rockers
> play them too, it's not nearly as frequent. Unfortunately
> Classic Rock stations are not digging deep enough and beat
> the same "Freebird" songs into the ground... Classic Hits
> has always done that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Hello my friends
> > >
> > > First I will start by saying I LOVE the new big 100.3 it
>
> > is
> > > a breath of fresh air. It seems more and more stations
> > are
> > > going to the "classic hits" format, BIG is classic hits
> > ARW
> > > is Classic rock.
> >
> > Unfortunately, ARW is classic hits that sometimes plays a
> > classic rock song, and claims to be a "classic rock"
> > station. Wish they would make up their mind what they
> really
> > are.
> >
> > > Now that we have the stations broken down, here is what
> I
> > > don't get. What makes a station classic "rock" ? and
> what
> >
> > > makes a station classic "hits" below are artist that I
> > have
> > > heard on BOTH formats wich is why I wrote this post
> >
> > Classic Hits = Music that was in the Top 40 when it was
> > released, probably was on a Top 40 station. It was
> released
> > as a single (45 RPM record) and played on many radio
> > stations. It had wide appeal then, still does. Groups like
>
> > the Beatles. Billy Joel, Elton John fit this group.
> >
> > Classic Rock = Music that was relegated to FM radio on
> hard
> > rock stations, even when many people were still listening
> to
> > AM. These were called AOR (Album Oriented Rock) because
> they
> > usually played cuts from an album (33 1/3 RPM) as most of
> > these songs were never released as a single. These were
> the
> > "alternative" songs of the day. Very little appeal outside
>
> > of the young (18-25) age group at that time (by now, many
> > are in their 50s!). Groups like Led Zeppelin and Jimi
> > Hendrix fit this group.
> >
> > > David Bowie
> > Could be both hit and rock.
> >
> > > Bob Segar
> > Classic hit.
> >
> > > Gary Wright
> > Not familiar with this one.
> >
> > > Steve Miller
> > Definately classic hit.
> >
> > > Boston
> > Classic hit, though many classic rock stations play this
> to
> > death.
> >
> > > Jackson Brown
> > ZZZZZZZZZZZ. Classic hit.
> >
> > > The Beatles
> > Classic hit. Though you may hear "Yellow Submarine" on a
> > classic rock station.
> >
> > > The Who
> > Could be both, leans towards classic rock.
> >
> > > Billy Joel
> > Classic hit. Played to death.
> >
> > > Elton John
> > Classic hit. Should NEVER NEVER be played on a hard
> Classic
> > Rock station!
> >
> > > Thanks for taking the time to read this post, in closing
>
> > the
> > > artists I memtioned above were hitmakers in the 60s, 70s
>
> > and
> > > 80s. Who can draw the line between classic rock and
> > classic
> > > hits?
> >
> > See above. DC really has never been a good rock town. I
> grew
> > up in Pittsburgh listening to WDVE (still a decent rock
> > station, even though Cheap Channel tries to muck it up).
> >
> > I gave up on finding a real rock station in the DC area
> and
> > pretty much have gone sat rad. WARW.. WBIG.. who cares!
> Both
> > suck.
> >
> > I listen to XM 41 (Boneyard) which does OK in the harder
> > rock area, but Sirius 19 (Buzzsaw) does a better job.
> >
> > - Dave
> >
>

 

[dmine45]

> Classic Rock appeals to male listeners and Classic Hits
> appeals to females.

That's it in a nutshell! Well said.

- Dave

 

[OldNumber7]

> > Classic Rock appeals to male listeners and Classic Hits
> > appeals to females.
>
> That's it in a nutshell! Well said.
>
> - Dave
>

That's a correct analysis, although there's a reason for it. Both formats still draw heavily from the same core artists and songs that defined the FM radio explosion of the late 70s. For a while in the late 70s, the playlists of the "Rock ACs" had a lot of artists in common with the mainstream Album Oriented Rockers (especially the very successful Superstars AOR format created by Lee Abrams, now with XM). AC later evolved into a format that didn't exclude pure pop and R&B, and AOR later emphasized more guitar-driven stuff; but back in the 70s the boundaries weren't nearly as distinct. WARW and WBIG are reaching for the same folks who defected in droves from AM top 40 in the late 70s -- men and women, who are now in the 45-54 demo; the last big chunk of baby boomers still of interest to advertisers. WARW skews male and WBIG skews female. Both audiences came of age on heavy doses of the Eagles, Doobie Brothers, Bob Seger & Fleetwood Mac so its no wonder these formats endure. How many more times can an aging baby boomer listen to "Hotel California?" Apparently a lot, or these stations have it wrong.

 

[dmine45]

> WARW skews
> male and WBIG skews female. Both audiences came of age on
> heavy doses of the Eagles, Doobie Brothers, Bob Seger &
> Fleetwood Mac so its no wonder these formats endure. How
> many more times can an aging baby boomer listen to "Hotel
> California?" Apparently a lot, or these stations have it
> wrong.

I tend to disagree on the WARW skewing male. I think both WARW and WBIG skew female. I can't see a male who listened to AOR stations listening to WARW (at least this one can't stand WARW!).

These stations perform "research" and have determined that people like to listen to Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles over and over again. Again, I tend to disagree on this one as well. If this were the case, why is WARW's ratings in the toilet? They just don't have enough variety. I haven't listened to WBIG since the format change to see how much they overplay songs, but considering its Clear Channel, we all know the answer

Bottom line, very few PDs/MDs out there know the REAL difference between Classic Hits and Classic Rock.

Classic Hits - Top 40
Classic Rock - Album Oriented Rock, hardly ever made a dent in the Top 40

Why is it so hard for today's radio folks to understand? Or is it just the ones in the DC market?

- Dave

 

[OldNumber7]

> Classic Hits - Top 40
> Classic Rock - Album Oriented Rock, hardly ever made a dent
> in the Top 40
>
I'm not sure I fully agree, but I guess the bigger point is this: "Classic Rock" is a positioning statement designed to APPEAL to males. "Classic Hits" is a positioning statement designed to APPEAL to females. The products aren't as important as the branding (sorta like the Smooth Jazz stations that don't play much true Jazz).
From one market to another there are variations about what music defines classic hits or classic rock, but the intent of the stations that use the positioning statements is pretty much the same.