Classical Music Format

[e-dawg]

I guess we don't have a classical music format board, but this is close enough.

Is Classical music station only could survive if they're non-commercial vs. commercial?

For example, a lot of classic music stations are run by public radio stations such as RAI, BBC, RTE, R-ES etc...

 

[PTBoardOp94]

There are a handful of successful commercial classical music stations. But if there is a commercial classical station competing with a non-commercial one (all other things being equal), the non-commercial station will have a certain advantage.

 

[TheBigA]

The real problem here, especially as we enter a period where government funding is being cut, is that the arts are becoming less and less of a commercial venture. There was a time when major corporations sponsored commercial classical concerts on the radio and TV. But changes in corporate funding laws and bad times at major corporations have led to cutbacks in sponsorship. That's why commercial classical stations have been forced to turn their operations over to non-profits, even in markets where they were getting great ratings. The problem here is that it not only hurts the format, but it hurts the arts in general, because orchestras and opera companies are limited in the ways they can use their time on non-commercial radio for their sponsors.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

And, the audience is old and growing older.

 

[aaronread]

For a long time WCRB in Boston (back when it was on 102.5) was a financially successful enterprise. They were often condemned by the "purists" because they (the station) played a lot of "light" classical that was designed to be ideal for at-work listening and good for non-purists who just wanted a little something soothing in the background. Granted, I don't know how well WCRB held up (or would've held up) in the PPM age. ???

Granted, WCRB was eventually acquired by the second-biggest provider of classical in town: WGBH. But by then it had moved (in an unrelated deal) to 99.5FM which, while a decent signal, is nowhere near as market-covering as 102.5 was.

I'm sure there could be others, but KING in Seattle is the only station that comes to mind that elected to move from commercial to non-profit operation, and there wasn't a sale as part of the mix.

And, the audience is old and growing older.

True, and that's actually why moving to a non-commercial model can make a lot of sense. "Old" in radio terms means "54 and up", which is not exactly "at death's door". So you have an audience that you can probably count on to stick around for another decade or two, and now you've given them the structural framework to donate to support their favorite classical outlet.

 

[SML]

KDB in Santa Barbara is also now owned and operated by a non-profit, but operating the station as a commercial, for profit operation.

 

[aaronread]

I think this might be one of those cases where "every market is different". Yes, perhaps KING made the switch from for-profit to non-profit when no sale was involved, but WQXR and WCRB made switches with a sale. And KDB apparently went in the reverse direction. IIRC, WETA went from classical to all news/talk in an effort to boost flagging ratings, but a few years later when the commercial classical outlet in DC sold out and the format disappeared, WETA went back to all-classical to pick up the audience.

There is certainly an advantage in being non-profit in that you can solicit donations and they're tax-deductible to the donors. That can be huge. However, the raw earning power of any commercial outlet is almost always substantially greater than of a non-commercial outlet. Plus the programming restrictions of operating as a non-commercial station can be a royal pain in the butt. (I speak from experience)

 

[johnbasalla]

I don't know if I can completely buy into "The audience is old, and getting older" when it comes to Classical music listeners. There's different dynamics then in Pop music. Some Classical music was originally composed and performed in the 1700s, but is still revered and listened to today.
Schools that have strong music curriculums teach Classical music, so they are helping to build new audiences. In Pop music radio formats, there's always debates about 'how old can you go". In Classical music, the question seems to be, should you play much of anything from the 20th century, let alone the 21st.

 

[BMR]

Classic FM in the UK is popular and profitable, despite being up against commercial free BBC Radio 3-which it trounces in the ratings.

Just over 10% of the population tune in to Classic at least once a week, more than twice Radio 3's audience (obviously some people listen to both)

So the format can be made to work....

 

[BMR]

There are a handful of successful commercial classical music stations.  But if there is a commercial classical station competing with a non-commercial one (all other things being equal), the non-commercial station will have a certain advantage.

This is going to sound barmy- it sounds barmy to me, but I think the fact Classic FM plays commercials actually gives it an advantage over Radio Three.

To understand that, you need to understand a bit about British broadcasting history, even a little bit about the class system and the idea of inverted snobbery....

When Classic launched in 1990, Radio Three had (still has to some extent) an image as the most elitist, upmarket part of the BBC. Even more so than Radio 4.  BBC Radio Three might be enjoyably uplifiting (in a very traditional way) but it never, ever did anything as crass as 'fun'. On the flip side, commercial radio was unashamed fun fun fun- pop and DJ banter and nothing too serious.

If you've seen 'The boat that rocked', you'll have some idea of what I mean- the boring cabinet minister never listened to commercial radio, he listened to Radio Three, he was a member of the ruling class..... while 'Radio Rock's audience was housewives, factory workers, folks driving the new mass market cars..none of those folks would touch Radio Three....that really is the way it was in the 1960s- and still was when legal commercial radio came along in the 70s and 80s. Still is to some extent.

Classic FM punched a small hole in that ceiling, and I think it was the very fact it was a commercial station helped it do that. There was none of the upper class stigma Radio Three had. They even used DJs from pop music stations (with varying degrees of success). As an ordinary working class bloke in the street, I'd never admit to listening to Radio Three (which I don't anyway) but it's quite normal to flick between pop stations and Classic. Classic might be seen as a bit 'middle class' but it's OK to admit you listen


This could be total horse***t, and obviously the fact that Classic plays more well known classics more often helps, but I think it helps explain why Classic FM works in the UK, despite strong competition from a well resourced (and commercial free) BBC station.

 

[Tincap]

There are a handful of successful commercial classical music stations. But if there is a commercial classical station competing with a non-commercial one (all other things being equal), the non-commercial station will have a certain advantage.

Even before CBC Radio 2 gutted much of its classical music programming, it stood lower in the ratings, in Toronto, than the GTA's commercial classical station Classical 96. I could dig into the Montreal ratings and there I suspect we might find the same thing regarding Radio 2, its Francophone counter part, Espace Musique and the French language commercial station Radio-Classique. The success of the commercial stations were probably due very much, as outlined by BMR on the UK situation.

And of course, since Radio 2 and Espace Musique's moved towards AAA, they remain in the basement, while the commercial classical stations have increased their market shares. Unfortunately, unlike the UK, there is no network of commercial classical stations, here in Canada. Many Canadians must do without, unless they (like myself) are fortunate enough to be within reach of an American station.

On a side note, I've contacted the folks at Classical 96, regarding the possibility of a repeater (like a number of Toronto TV stations) in the Ottawa area. They'd like to, but there's a lack of space on the Ottawa FM band. A French commercial classical station has been tried in Ottawa, but (ironically) they flipped formats, at the same time Radio 2 & Espace Musique dropped much of their classical content. Perhaps the commercial station was a little too hasty, as it has been losing market share since.

~BG

 

[johnbasalla]

How do Canadian Classical stations deal with the ConCan rule?... or do they have to?

 

[PTBoardOp94]

They play Canadian musicians playing the same master works of Vivaldi, Beethoven, and Adams that non-Canadian broadcasters would.

 

[Tincap]

They play Canadian musicians playing the same master works of Vivaldi, Beethoven, and Adams that non-Canadian broadcasters would.

Very true. And there are some great musicians and orchestras here in Canada. It's ironic having to hear them from south of the border (or online from other parts of the world). Driving deep into the US, I used to hear CBC produced programs on various US classical stations. No more.

~BG

 

[TheBigA]

I used to hear CBC produced programs on various US classical stations. No more.

They had an active syndication department, and stations could run the show for free.

 

[Ai4i]

Driving deep into the US, I used to hear CBC produced programs on various US classical stations. No more.
~BG

What happened, why no more, what did I sleep through ???
Everyone seems to air Live @ the Concertgebouw from RNW.nl.

 

[recto101]

I like KXPR the NPR station in Sacramento because it airs great classical music out there.