Clear Channel In Utica-Rome Market

[WCWalker]

I just read a story that indicated Clear Channel is unable to find any buyers for their stations in the Utica-Rome market. And it also appears that WYFY AM in Rome cannot also find a buyer.

Any ideas as to why no one wants to purchase these radio stations?

 

[hmmm]

Yup, word is the stations are in such bad shape that you would have to put in more money to get them where they should be than what they're worth. I believe one company did a walk through and pulled their offer based on what they saw. Considering how the company operated the stations it really shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone.

 

[therealjm12]

And it also appears that WYFY AM in Rome cannot also find a buyer.

What is WYFY? Is that the old WKAL 1450?

 

[BobRoss]

I just read a story that indicated Clear Channel is unable to find any buyers for their stations in the Utica-Rome market. And it also appears that WYFY AM in Rome cannot also find a buyer.

Where was this story? I'd be interested in seeing it.

I've never been inside the CC Utica camp, but from a ratings and revenue standpoint, I'm not surprised to hear they're having trouble finding a buyer. WOUR is the only station with decent ratings. Kiss-FM has been slipping for the past 3-4 years now. By the time they finally realized Linda and Kook were too old for the format, the damage was already done, and the replacement morning shows haven't been anything special either. Mix 102.5 was a good competitor to Regent's lite when it started, but the addition of jocks only made a slight difference to their ratings. The syndicated Whoopi in the Morning is lame... she's a talented performer, but not a voice I want to hear first thing in the morning. The River on 93.5 seems to be doing better than the past few formats, but still suffers from a less-than-optimal stick way up in Remsen. On the AM side, the Sports Stars Network has been terrible, still is terrible, and will continue to be terrible. You know the power is weak when all 4 stations can legally simulcast the same programming in the same market. I rarely listen because it's just too confusing to remember which frequency you need to tune into, depending on where in the area you're driving.

But, on the plus side, there are plenty of people who've been there for a very long time. The WOUR air staff, for one. Jerry Kraus and Alison have been there for decades. Between Kiss and Mix, Linda Rae has been there for easily 10-15 years, and I believe Kook is still lurking around somewhere. Some of the part-timers have also been around for quite awhile. If it was really that bad, you'd think some of the long-time employees would have jumped ship for more lucrative jobs in PR or teaching years ago. I wouldn't say they're only there because they're not good enough to go anywhere else... some of these guys have been there so long, you know they've gotta have connections to move into a new job if they wanted to.

Maybe the problem was just the physical plant. Again, I've never been there, but I've heard some stories. And if those stories are true, I can imagine that any buyer (who cares about their product) would probably be going through there, trying guess how much extra it would cost to either remodel or move elsewhere.

Again, I'd be interested to see that story you cited for myself. And I'd be even more interested to hear from current or past CC Utica employees, their take on what may be keeping buyers away.

 

[hokeypokey]

They have lost a bunch of fulltimers to other ventures in the past few months. The sales manager for WOUR was fired, the PD of KISS/MIX (Roadrunner) left after 15 years in radio for a marketing position in the market, the IT/Engineering Assistant who can tell you how bad it is is now moving to Virginia Beach, the long time promotions/web guy took a gig at a local college and the sales manager who turned KISS/MIX around financially is now the DOS at Regent. Plus countless numbers of sales people have been in and out of that building.

As for KISS, last I knew Bob they beat WOUR 12+ the past few books. For a station that has been on a slide they have been as high as number 3 and on an upward swing until the most recent book.

MIX: Give it some marketing dollars and a full staff and something can happen. It's tough to be competitive when your midday person is also the PD and only member dedicated to programming. The PM Driver is the cluster production director.

And as an aside, I am surprised nobody has mentioned the release of more employees at WRCK (Rock 107). Schantz is out and the shows/programming is being sent in from Syracuse.

That is all.

 

[WCWalker]

Unfortunately, I don't recall the specific story or its location where I found this information. I've seen too many sites in the last few days. But based upon what I read it said it was on of the few cases where Clear Channel is not able to sell their stations in a medium sized market. Should be easy to verify.

 

[therealjm12]

As a former employee of several of the stations the Clear Channel now owns (or owned) in the Utica-Rome market I think I have some insight to the situation. Utica-Rome, Little Falls is where I started my broadcasting career. I have been out of the market for over 25 years now and have never worked for C. C.
First let’s take the AM’s. 1550 & 1350 should just be turned off. 1550 (formally WBVM when I worked there does not need to exist anymore. Because of it’s frequency protecting a Canadian 50 kw’er it will never have a pre dawn or post sunset signal. I think I saw somewhere they have 3 watts at night. Is it worth the energy bill? The Fusco brothers barely scratched out a profit in the 1960’s and they knew what they were doing and whom they were programming to. Turn it off!
1350 WRNY is a regional frequency. Probably could go directional and raise it’s daytime power and get something at night, but why bother? The guy that owned it in the 60’s did ok with it and sold it to the Elinbergs. They did great with it and put on the FM with the money they made. They knew the low power AM would eventually just die. So turn it off. Maybe another 1350 someplace would be able to take advantage and raise their power.
1480 WADR. This station was a major player in the market in the 70’s with its country format. Had a huge 35-54 audience and was probably the major reason why WRUN gave up it M. O. R. and went top 40. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever figured out why it’s 5,000 watt signal (daytime only) 500 watt pre & post sunset goes no place and I know there has been money spent to find out. There was talk of putting up more towers many years ago, and going directional at night. Problem was the signal never would have covered Utica & Rome at night. With the F. C. C. loosening up over the years I bet they could move the transmitter out of Remsen and south of Deerfield Hill to give a the market a better signal. They probably would have to reduce power but they would be on 24 hours. But once again is it worth it?
1230 (WLFH to me). Always been a very strange place with very strange owners over the years. Some were very serious and ran a tight ship. Others were complete nitwits that I wondered how they ever got a driver’s license, as much as getting a broadcast license. 1230 has a very good 1,000 watt, 24-hour signal – even though the ground system is still next-door on the side of Mousie Feldman’s old furniture store. The station could still be very successful for a local owner programming for the local audience. No one would get rich but a living could be made. Main Street in Little Falls is pretty much the same as it was 40 years ago and there will never be a Wal-Mart in Little Falls. High school sports always paid the bills and always will.

On the FM side. Don’t know much about WOUR nowadays. I am sure it is still successful. What a great signal. With a little direction I am sure they can revive any luster they have lost.
Mix –whatever. This station has never really found its mark or potential. Once again, a good signal but the constant format changes have just confused the listeners and advertisers. It should never be separated from WOUR.

WRFM (WOKR?) –Why do they zoom into Syracuse but you can’t get them in New Hartford? I like the River the few times I have heard it. Sounds very professional. I would like to see it sold to a local buyer and grouped again with WADR

The Kiss Stations – You keep hearing the CHR is dead. I don’t believe it. It will always make a good combo buy for advertisers trying to find a youthful audience. The one in Utica should go with WOUR & Mix and the one in Little Falls should go with WLFH 1230(or whatever it is this week).

Just my opinion. As I said, I have out of the market a long time, but I do still have strong feelings about my hometown and would like to see a vibrant radio market.

By the way, the guys that were in the generation ahead of me told me back in the 50’s Utica-Rome was in top 50 markets. When I was there it was # 77. Now I hear it down to 154. Maybe that’s why no one is interested in buying the group of stations. Break up the cluster. Sell it local!

 

[BobRoss]

Selling it local could be interesting. But who would buy it? And would CC be willing to break it up to different local buyers?

I think it would take several corporate rejections before CC would consider breaking it up to sell individual stations (or combos). I mean, you have to consider, if they can sell a pair or two, great, but it's not worth it for them to hold onto the 2 or 3 stations that'd almost certainly be "leftover." They're gonna try every possible avenue to sell the entire group as one.

It seems most of the problem with CC Utica is that they cut way too many corners. Too much voicetracking, automation, multi-tasking. It is possible to have full air staffs and be successful. If Regent can do it, any cluster, be it CC, Galaxy or any other owner, could do it too. It's just a matter of how they go about doing it.

The problem with all these publicly-owned corporate owners is that they have to answer to the shareholders. "Investments must produce results this fiscal year, or else!" It's a shame because underperforming markets don't just turn around overnight. Radio listeners are loyal. When you're the underdog, you have to work extra hard, and give it plenty of time. A new station can't attack a veteran for just one or two books and then give up. It can take years, and you need people who can concentrate on just one or two stations, not four or seven.

On the other hand, dumping tons of money into something for 5 years doesn't always guarantee results, so you can't really blame owners, big or small, for being impatient on results.

As for hokeypokey's other note, I didn't know about the Galaxy massacre. Thought Stew was still there. That's the second cluster he's been fired from in the market.

 

[getoutofradio]

My opinion.......Clear Channel Utica is a sinking ship, that, even worse, was sunk by its own captain. Hard to keep a successful staff (which it had), when the guy in charge hates anyone that is smarter than him, which isn't saying too much. Notice will you, that when all your Managers/Directors leave all within months of one another, THERE IS A PROBLEM. It has nothing to do with Clear Channel being on the market either, which I am sure HE is telling everyone. The morale over there is horrible. The place is run like a joke, which is so sad considering it had some of the most talented people in radio. It still has a few and I feel bad for them. They put their heart and soul into that place and it will never be appreciated. They are loyal workers that don't want to go anywhere else. Some people still believe in working at a place for more than 6 months. Unfortunately all they get is more work and no pay when other people leave.

Here is my thought, get rid of your top dog and you will see an improvement. There is a reason why Regent is so successful. It has nothing to do with their talent. Mary Jo runs a tight ship over there.

 

[bigstick2007]

There is no doubt that the removal of the head of the CC cluster could very well be a boon to the market as a whole. Tough to have your ship sail smoothly when the guns always seem pointed at one's own hull. It will interesting to see if CC can find anyone to drop a single dime on those stations....although, how much would the owner of the other disastrous cluster in town pay to finally say he owns WOUR? Especially now that he has a "Utica roll" in his pocket from sale of stations in Albany.

Here is my thought, get rid of your top dog and you will see an improvement. There is a reason why Regent is so successful. It has nothing to do with their talent. Mary Jo runs a tight ship over there.

Be careful where you give credit. A dim star shines brightly in a galaxy of black holes. Difficult to run a tight ship when the Captain doesn't spend alot of time steering the ship at sea. Seems the captain has been very fortunate (or Regent corporate has seen to it) that the crew has been excellent. Plus, when you have two big dogs that dominate the ratings book after book, doesn't take a Nobel Prize winner to win in this market. Ought to be interesting to see where this ship sails with a new DOS, and without a PD on two stations.

 

[slawrence]

Let's see where to begin about the Utica Rome radio market! Radio was very good to me! I started in the business at an extremely young age and was fortunate enough to be taught by some very talented individuals. Radio is an awesome and powerful business to work in. It has its good points and its bad points! Having worked at Clear Channel up until October of 2006 I have never seen such a disaster! The problems with the local CC stations has nothing to do with Clear Channel, but who runs the local ship!

Its funny someone brought up ratings, after Schantz stopped programming the stations KISS increased to #1 18-34 for a solid two years! BUT KNOW ONE including the captain knew how to sell the format – I’m talking they made 25k a month, pretty sad being number three in the market, number one in the primary target demo and we couldn’t make money. I can show you proposals of where they had rates as low as .50 for a spot on KISS-FM during this period. Call me crazy, but when you have to go that low, how do you expect to make money! After countless meetings with the GM, LSM, Programming Consultant, and Regional VP of Programming explaining them the dilemma we are in and be told – it’s a tough business and we are working on it, you just need to hang in there (in other words, it’s Utica/Rome who cares) – well someone at Regent cares since they out bill the local cc stations three to one if not more in most months! Everyone in the KISS/MIX Programming side, Jocks, Production did everything possible to teach the sales staff about the formats, give great ideas even offered to go and visit the clients with them - they said no most times. I remember once again a veteran sales rep a few basic questions - name the jock line up, name 10 songs they play - they couldn't do it! Again, hey captain - They cant make you money, if they dont know what they are selling. I thought the best was when WNTQ(Syracuse market) had a live broadcast at the local New Hartford Verizon Wireless for a ***** Cat Dolls promotion. Again #1, 18-34, #2 or #3 25-54, and they, sorry, the captain couldn’t even get Verizon on the KISS airwaves – so Syracuse did the job!

MIX was a bit more difficult due to the CAPTAIN not allowing a staff to program a radio station. Everyone from the janitor to the captains wife had input on what songs will be played! Programming had a great concept for a morning show and night early on, but was shot down, because the captain had no brass to tell corporate! MIX has some incredible achievements with two live jocks! It also has some signal issues and when you are trying to penetrate the Utica, Rome, Herkimer market and your stick is going west towards Syracuse it kinda makes it difficult to ask people to live with static.

BD is a great guy and brings great ideas to the table, but he is also the biggest bs 'er anyone could ever come in contact with. Clear Channel corporate (as least as far as programming) new about the problems that was going on – they chose to ignore it – I was told don’t worry about it and of course I said, KISS MY ___!

I had a great love for the radio business, but when you get someone in charge that doesn’t really care about it – it tends to bring down the rest of the entire staff! And now from what I hear is running to North Carolina – can’t even sink with the ship like a good captain should 

Oh, well just my thoughts! The good thing is, I have the proof in emails and proposals of the many stupid mistakes this cluster made, so when I do need a laugh, I just re-read them. Between the local cc stations, market and the staff – these can produce $$$$$$, but Clear Channel will have to lower the price of these stations because they let someone run them into the ground.

Road A Runner

p.s. WHERE THE HECK ARE THE “BANANA’S”

 

[BobRoss]

Roadie, thanks for the insight. Aren't you glad to be able to vent all of this now that you're gone? I've never met you, but heard that you were pretty instrumental when you were there. It's a shame the higher-ups treated you as they did.

I was just thinking about this forum last night -- before I had read your post. How can CC possibly be doing so bad with Kiss, considering it's the ONLY CHR station in the market? Look at what CC has in Utica. Mix competes with Lite. WOUR competes with K-Rock and Rock 107. River is mostly competing with Oldiez 96. But Kiss isn't competing with anyone! It's the only station where CC truly has a "monopoly" in the market. Sure, there's some overlap with 93Q and Hot from Syracuse, but that's mostly just in Rome. Once you're in the Utica proper, Kiss is the only game in town for CHR. The ratings aren't stellar, but they aren't exactly horrible either.

Charging 50 cents a spot... I can't say I'm totally surprised, but it's still appalling. Are these salespeople on commission? Do they not understand, the higher the rate, the more THEY make? The worst part about that is... if the clients are used to paying 50 cents and a dollar per spot, they're going to keep demanding it. Most of these smaller local businesses can't afford to pay more even if they wanted to. And the bigger businesses (like Billy Fucillo) won't pay more because they know they don't have to.

If BD is leaving, his replacement's going to have a hard time pushing the troops to bring in better rates. Unless it's just a promotion from within where the new GM just decides to keep the status quo intact.

Either way, it's definitely a "fixer upper" for any new owner. They could be successful if they clean things up and change the way things are done. But it's a matter of finding an owner who'd be willing to make that initial investment without any guarantees.

 

[hokeypokey]

Did they finally get their vehicles logoed? I heard it only took the cluster 11 months to get a vehicle that fit the format for MIX (a minivan vs the old "prize pick-up" for Bob b/c that screams female target). Then I saw the KISS vehicle with half a sticker on the one window recetly as I was at the Radisson for brunch. The truck was painted before Halloween and still isn't logoed. No marketing budget, no promo budget and no logo'd vehicles.

Also saw the promo assistant is leaving (job posted on CC job site) and heard another sales person or two has left to go to Regent. Sure the spin will be "the sale the sale" but these stations have been through other sales before without lots of people jumping. Drop the spin and face the heat: this place was run into the ground.

 

[slawrence]

so true, if you only knew half the story - let me know when you buy stock in diapers - then i can finish the story and you won't have to worry about wetting your pants.

 

[Adman4120]

I would like to echo some of the comments of Steve Lawrence. If anyone had a handle on making those stations succesful, it was Steve. Too bad, his hands were tied. Personally, I have all the respect for BD. I also think he is an excellent sales trainer and motivator, but that is where he should stop. As a sales manager, I think that fits him well. As a General Manager, absolutely not. He is not qualified, does not know a thing about programing, and has been fooled by many staffers into thinking they are so in touch with what needs to be done to make the stations a success.

MIX...Ever since Linda began helping with the music, it's been a disaster. Te music is so far off, a child could put together a better mix. BD has been wrong 100% of the time on music format, programming, etc. The biggest blunder was programming Christmas music from 5-PM until 6-AM during the holiday season a couple of years ago.

KISS...Again, Steve Lawrence had that station on track. But the know it all honchos took care of that. Another station zig zagging in a bunch of different directions.

WOUR...Not the same station it used to be. Tom Starr seems to know everything, so almost impossible for any other opinoons or suggestions to be taken into consideration.

WOKR (The River)...Same situation. The hill in Remsen blocks their signal in parts of Rome and Utica, but bounces over to reach Syracuse, at least on the flat Thruway clearly. You go figure.

The 4 AM stations...Turn them off. No signal, and at night. WADR only has 14 watts at night, not 500, WRNY has 58 watts and goes about 3 miles at night, WUTQ has 3-watts and goes two blocks, and WIXT in Herkimer goes nowhere for 1000 watts. A terrible signal.

I'm sure someone will take over the CC stations in Utica in the very near future. Plenty of speculation on this subject including Northeast Radio Watches column that says Galaxy could be a likely candidate.

Someone else mentioned the old WKAL in Rome up for sale with no buyers. They want too much money for just a stick with no building or equipment. And their signal goes nowhere at night either since every 1450 frequency agreed to accept each others interference in order to stay at 1000 watts at night. The signal used to reach Utica at night when they all reduced to 250 watts. They should have stuck to that same system.

Just my thoughts. Steve L...I trust you are doing well. You did one heck of a job and are a true porfessional.

 

[hokeypokey]

The music selection on MIX is a choice of a CC consultant. When Linda took over a job she had had no intentions of taking on a permantent basis, CC decided to add the consultant in. Ask Linda where the extra money is for her new title of being a PD. I overheard her telling people at an event she is not getting any extra money and how it takes her 90 minutes a day to make Whoopi run itself. Is the title of interim PD kind of like a common law marriage, after you have been in it so long then it is assumed it is your title.

 

[BobRoss]

I overheard her telling people at an event she is not getting any extra money and how it takes her 90 minutes a day to make Whoopi run itself. Is the title of interim PD kind of like a common law marriage, after you have been in it so long then it is assumed it is your title.

First of all, it's a shame you had to overhear that. No matter how bad things may be internally at any station anywhere, no jock with any sort of class should be venting that kind of stuff in public. Doesn't matter if it's being said to personal friends at a restaurant, or if she was actually telling listeners at a remote. Not only does it bring down the entire image of the station, it makes the individual jock look pathetic. From what I've heard, Linda Rae has had at least a few chances to jump ship for greener pastures over the years, and every time, she declines. Even if she's under a non-compete contract, it's Utica. If CC won't spend the bucks to bring in NEW decent talent, I doubt they'd spend the bucks in court to keep veteran talent under their roof. She's made her own bed several times, and she can keep rolling in it.

But the main reason for this reply is about the comment of her "interim PD" thing becoming permanent. That's a very sad reality in this business nowadays. All too often, jobs are cut, and then people are told they're going to pick up the slack "just for now, until we get a long-term plan worked out." Or they're told there's no room in the budget for raises "yet, but we should have some more money soon." Does that better long-term plan ever happen? Does that extra money ever get freed up? No! In this business, people are expected to do more and more work, for the same money.

If Linda allowed the mgmt to throw the PD duties in her lap without any extra pay, that's her own fault. If the company can get the work done for free, they sure aren't going to actively look to pay someone else for it. On the other hand, anytime anyone in this business puts their foot down -- they put themselves at risk of being replaced by someone else who will gladly do the same work for less money. I wonder how often Linda wishes she had taken up those offers from the other side of town.

 

[Adman4120]

I always tend to agree with Bob's professional take on things. For many of us in programming, management and on air from the early 70's forward, we've seen so many changes to this business. Some positive, some not so positive. It seemed like this direction took hold in the late 80's.

There was a time when many of us never wanted to leave the radio station to go home. Work was our first home, and our real home was second. Everything changes daily in this world, and large companies do not care if it's an experienced person or not, someone off the street, a computer or anything else. As long as they make tons of money, it does not matter how it is achieved or who helps in that goal. And it is the people who try hard that never get credit when things go right, but get blamed when things go wrong. In addition, there never seems to be much in the way of employees being trained to further their skills.

Oh well...the rules of radio are now in place, and everyone knows the parameters to either go with the flow, or choose a different field.

As the new ownership of Clear Channel Utica gets ready to make their precense known in the very near future, I would expect many modifications.

 

[therealjm12]

Looks like the one thing we all agree on is that we will not miss Clear Channel in the Utica-Rome Market. C. C. is following CBS's lead and leaving the small & medium markets. The big corporations will never be satisfied with the return on their dollar invested, in these markets, even if they cut their staff down to one computer. The revenue simply isn't there. All that has happened in the last ten years, of big corperate ownership, is that thousands of jobs have disappeared and the value of their stock has dropped.

 

[slawrence]

They may be true and some markets, but not here in Utica Rome! Like I stated earlier Regent out bills Clear Channel at least 3 to 1 if not more in most cases! Why is that! Of course one of the main reasons is that Regent has had the top two ratings slots for several years! They have a sales staff that knows the market, knows the industry, and knows the radio stations they are selling.

If you were in business would you buy from someone who spoke intelligently about what they can do for you, of course boast about there success stories with advertising and show the client what the potential advertising results could be? Or would you rather hear from someone saying, want to by radio spots? That’s the clear difference between Regent and Clear Channel in most cases! Clear Channel does have some very intelligent sales people as well – but the majority of the staff is unfortunately not trained properly. If you want to succeed in radio sales, you need to first develop a relationship with a client, then LISTEN to the client find out there weaknesses and focus on that – not just sell radio commercials that says blah, blah, blah, because that doesn’t nothing for the client therefore you will not get the repeat business.

There is plenty of advertising money in Utica/Rome and all over – it will not get handed to you because you think you deserve it! You will need to work for it – don’t sell a product if you don’t know the product.

I remember when I worked as the production director speaking with Sales people about playing the commercial for the client “no, they don’t care they trust me” and then the two days later when the spot has been running – we need to change this immediately its totally wrong.

Clear Channel Utica has had more bogus meetings about changing policy (which was great) but then never stuck to the policy change!

How to win with no money very easy “captain you may want to take notes, especially if you are moving south these will come in handy” –

If you have a strong and positive programming team that includes, pd, md, promotions director, website coordinator and street team you can and will win the ratings but you will have to work hard, in most cases 10 hours a day minimum – unfortunately everyone now wants a quick 6 hour day and then questions why don’t they win.

Production: A must! Someone creative, great with clients and be understanding with sales people and time constraints – CC Utica has Mike Walsh – who does a phenomenal job.

Sales: A strong leader (CC Utica doesn’t even a Sales Manager now ----YOU WONT WIN THE SALES AWARD WITH OUT A LEADER) You need someone who knows the market inside and out! New businesses, old businesses, housing, employment ratio, everything THE MARKET! Then have a select few that you know and trust, pay them WELL (not 15K a year, CAPTAIN) Then teach them Radio! Then teach them Programming Then teach them Production!

THEN YOU WILL MAKE MONEY!

Of course this is the simplified version, much like any successful business out there – you can win unless you work!

Clear Channel has not hurt the Utica Rome market – local management (or the lack of) has! Everyone wants to blame CORPORATE and yes they have made some stupid mistakes – but they are not why radio is slipping.

TAKE PRIDE IN WHAT YOU DO – LISTEN TO YOUR LISTENERS – LISTEN TO YOUR CLIENTS – THATS YOUR FIRST STEP!

Have a great radio day.
Road A Runner