Clear Channel In Utica-Rome Market

[hokeypokey]

they went away when el captino said he was saving jobs by cutting imaging voices for 2007. It was that or take a paycut.

onthemarks you getting back in the game?

 

[onthemarks]

I only play where there's jingles to be heard.

 

[BobRoss]

I think it would be foolish to do any major format changes on Kiss regardless of who the new owner is. Maybe a name change and some imaging improvements (whatever happened to jingles?), but other than that, since it's the only CHR in town it would foolish to dink around with it too much.

Yeah, well if Ed takes over, get ready to see big changes. Remember when Rock 107 used to be CHR? And see what Ed did with it when he came in?

Next issue: jingles and imaging voices cost too much? Are you kidding me? If they can't afford imaging voices, why the hell are there two voices on Mix? I don't need the guy telling me "Mix 102.5" followed by the woman repeating it in a snotty tone. I'm not deaf, I heard the station name the first time. Get rid of one. Second, how many "Kiss FM" stations are out there? CC alone must have at least a hundred. You'd think CC could commission a "groupwide" generic Kiss jingle package that everyone could use, at a lower cost than ordering individually. (Yes, there'd still be fees for cuts that include specific cities, frequencies, etc. but they could be optional or at least cheaper than stations going on their own...)

Jingles may not be cheap, but they get stuck in listeners' heads. It's a matter of basic marketing. I can still remember the "102.5 ... Kiss FM!" jingle, and that was from how many years ago? Four or five? Catchy jingles, used effectively, will often prove themselves to be worth every penny.

 

[slawrence]

MIX is under no contract with the current voices - they are the same pieces I produced almost a year ago! I guess the old voice people said they didn’t care if there voices ran until they found another source. The captain needed to save money, so he thought it would be a brilliant idea to cut all imaging voices off the radio stations, well at least on KISS and MIX! Are they expensive, yes they are - and well worth the money! In order to market a radio property you need to have an image, an image that is not already in the market, so that way the listener can easily identify with the station. Jingles, are ok to once in a while, some stations way over play them, but they are effective.

It will be interesting who buys them, neither Ed nor Roser, has a current staff that can properly run the stations. And that's not a direct hit; it's based off of the past 10 years of history. Neither of them made an significant dent taking money out of the market, neither of them really had a radio station that was a player in ratings! Once in a great while K-ROCK increased then fell back WRCK increased then fell back! Bug Country, ummmm yeah enough said! WOW-FM, another Roser wanna-be! I remember when Wally McCarthy and I were sitting in a room thinking of sweepers, and this is when WOW was on the air – hmmmm “There’s no need to channel surf, we’ve done that for you, and WOW they suck! That’s pretty much all you have to say about WOW! But when it comes to programming, sales, promotions they are not even considered competition because they have never had anyone over there that knew how to run the stations.

Isn't radio fun to bs about.

 

[onthemarks]

Roser has to be holding his own or else he wouldn't still be in the game. I always find it funny that people point out how bad Bug Country is but it's still around and doing it's satellite format while Bob 102.5 had to change formats to survive.

As far as Wow-FM - well, that station never found a niche, tried to create a rhythmic niche that wasn't really needed in the area and was one of the gayest sounding stations known to man. It probably rattled too many closet doors in the Mohawk Valley. Kiss was/is still around because 93Q and Hot 107.9 have spotty coverage in the market at best and mostly because the CHR version of WRCK is long gone. Kiss has never come close to what J.R. had going with Rock 107.

 

[probuttonpusher]

wow sucked, BIG time. What ever happened to thier djs? I remember Linda. But what ever happened to rest of them?

 

[slawrence]

Posted on: Today at 09:15:16 amPosted by: onthemarks
Insert Quote
Roser has to be holding his own or else he wouldn't still be in the game. I always find it funny that people point out how bad Bug Country is but it's still around and doing it's satellite format while Bob 102.5 had to change formats to survive.

Is Roser holding it's own with BUG country? You say he is, I say if he is, either he has an extremely talented bunch of sales people that can sell with minimal ratings, limited local jocks and promotions - or his overhead is so low, it only takes 10k - 15k a month to make a profit or break even! Obviously you work for Roser. Don't worry, keep with the current BUG country programming (and you will switch format soon to survive as well

J.R., haven’t heard that name in a long time, he is a talented programmer; I believe he is still in the Boston area programming. The CHR WRCK was a good Top 40 station – but to compare a CHR from the 80’s, 90’s to today’s CHR is two totally different ball games. Just with the latest gadgets out there i.e., ipods, downloadable music has changed the way you need to program a CHR. People’s thoughts, opinion’s and what’s acceptable as far as morals has changed the way you program CHR. KISS and CHR WRCK bothed played the hits for the current time frame, they both ran strong promotions! You are comparing two different worlds.

 

[Adman4120]

Hey Steve...I'm sure you remember, but maybe others do not. When Mr. Roser sold the 97.9 and 105.5, he made out quite well. He sold those for a good chunk of change. I'm sure he was smart enough to invest a good portion of that money. If so, it is earning enough to make up for any lack of direct sales and ratings, so he can continue to go on without having to worry as much as other owners.

Just a thought.

 

[slawrence]

Very true! If I remember correctly, he got something like 1.3mill! I think CC's arrangement was to pay a dollar per programming mistake made on WOW! So that 1.3 figure has to be pretty close

 

[BobRoss]

KISS and CHR WRCK bothed played the hits for the current time frame, they both ran strong promotions! You are comparing two different worlds.

Ahh, yes, back when it was legal to accept record money, and there was enough of it to buy cool prizes like trips and the occasional new car. Nowadays, record labels couldn't give two squats to Utica-Rome, and even if they did, all the payola scandals scared everyone into refusing the love. But I don't want to get into a whole discussion on that.

I remember when Kiss was up against CHR WRCK, and even though I don't know how the numbers were, I think it had to be one of the biggest mistakes Ed made when he flipped WRCK back to classic rock. WRCK was still "the" station for all my friends. Keeler was funny and still played actual music, he wasn't trying to be a Stern wannabe at that point. It was maybe 50/50 with Kiss... always kinda neat when one station played a song you weren't crazy about, you could just flip to the other and hopefully find a better one. But when Ed flipped it to classic rock, yeah, I'm sure some people loved it, but everyone I knew was kinda bummed. Kiss would be the only choice until WOW came along, but even then, as Steve alluded, WOW wasn't really that great. I can't even remember anything "unique" that WOW did, other than the TV commercials showing the signal reaching from Rome to Amsterdam, and the fact that they played more techno/dance stuff than Kiss.

As for Roser holding his own... yeah, in a way, some people do like that the Bug offers a bit of "classic" country, which Big Frog has almost always lacked. They're like a CHR, but with country music. It's mostly newer stuff. The only reason Frog tossed in some classic titles was when Bob 102.5 came along and gave them a run for their money. The 20-song Bobathons also had the Frog shaking... you could tell when they almost immediately ditched the "10 songs in a row" gimmick they had since day one as 96 Frog. And years later, they still haven't brought it back! It would have been interesting to see how things would have played out if CC didn't pull the plug so quickly. I doubt it would have actually defeated the Frog, but I think it could have done better than Mix is doing now.

As for Roser, I think it's the combo of not having a "corporate" entity to worry about, and the fact that it's mostly satellite driven. What's his payroll? One person to dub in local spots (made by the other stations), and a part-timer to dress up as the bug for parades? Low revenue's OK when the expenses are also low. He's had the Bug on for so many years, I'd think he would have already changed formats by now if he felt the need to. Maybe he's kinda like "that one candidate" in every election who knows has no chance of winning, but he just can't sit back and watch the race go uncontested. Also look at the area... you just can't have "too many" country stations here. But there's already too much rock, AC and oldies. And even though Kiss is the only CHR game in town, Roser can't compete there (partly because he legally can't after selling WOW, and partly because I can't imagine a satellite-fed CHR being successful).

Steve, I also agree that there's no way Roser or Ed could afford to buy up any of the CC properties. Well, maybe they could buy the stations themselves, but I have no confidence that either company would be able to keep the staff intact. If Ed bought WOUR, there's no way he'd continue the competition going between that, K-Rock and WRCK. Since K-Rock and WRCK are basically simulcasts of his Syracuse stations already, I'd expect him to convert WOUR to a simulcast of (gulp) Sunny 102. He'd be smart to leave Kiss and Mix alone formatwise, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made cuts to the air staff. I could see him keeping one or two people on for production and voicetracking. Or he could just as likely try to run the entire operation from Syracuse. If he's gonna add a few people to his payroll, he might as well put them in Syracuse where they can be slaved away on ALL the stations, rather than just the ones in Utica.

If Roser took over, I have no idea what he'd do. Since he's already running a lean ship with just a few people, I'm guessing he wouldn't have the cash to buy the stations AND keep the payroll going at its current level. He'd have to slash the staff, but he wouldn't be able to fire as many people as Ed would. Roser doesn't a Syracuse cluster to provide simulcasting or voicetracking. He'd still need to locally employ enough people to take care of production and oversee each station. Perhaps if he was able to keep things going, and educate the sales staff to do a better job, he might eventually turn enough of a profit to regrow the air staff. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Adman4120]

Hi Bob and Steve...I agree with everything both of you have said in your postings. I know for a fact that Ed wants to run a format that goes after females. I have told Ed many times, that neither he or any of his programming people in Syracuse have a clue of what they're doing in Utica format wise. However, they never seem to listen to any suggestions that I have made to them. Not that I would 100% correct either, but everything they have done has not worked. At the moment they are batting zero and I'm batting a thousand when it comes to telling them in advance that the music they have been implementing would not garner any increase in listeners.

As I mentioned before, Ed is at the top of the list to get the CC cluster in which he would keep WOUR, MIX, WRNY, and WIXT, and then sell The River, KISS, WADR and WUTQ to any other interested party. Roser, being one who had been mentioned for KISS and the RIVER.

If this scenario did come true, what would Ed program. He obviously wants to get women, which will be very difficult since FROG and LITE are so entrenched with women listeners. Ed's pockets aren't that deep to advertise enough to try and steal women. He could keep WOUR the sameand at least lock in all of the classic rock revenue in the market.

In my opinion it would seem that because there are too many radio stations already in the market, anyone would be limited to find a format that would be so successful that they could even come close to knocking off FROG or LITE, or even generate a decent profit.

I do feel that Ed should listen to some other people that do know something about programming and make one of the FM's a fulltime sports station. There is so much money just waiting to be made especially when it comes to local sports and local sporting play-by-play events. It can't do any worse with total revenue than WRCK and K-ROCK are currently billing or for that matter The River, MIX and KISS.

Ed hasn't been one to hire more people, so it would seem like a good portion of operations could be handled from Syracuse.

Same theory as the other rumor floating around that Sinclair TV might be interested in buying NexStar Utica and then cut everyone in Utica lose, except for a person or two, and just run those stations programming from Syracuse.

The business sure isn't like back in the 70's to late 80's.

 

[BobRoss]

As I mentioned before, Ed is at the top of the list to get the CC cluster in which he would keep WOUR, MIX, WRNY, and WIXT ( ... )

If this scenario did come true, what would Ed program. He obviously wants to get women, which will be very difficult since FROG and LITE are so entrenched with women listeners. Ed's pockets aren't that deep to advertise enough to try and steal women. He could keep WOUR the sameand at least lock in all of the classic rock revenue in the market.

ANY radio station that's in a trailing position MUST be prepared to spend big bucks to market themselves enough to take over the leaders. Even with CC, they never really did it quite right. Bob had a pretty good start and Mix did too, but when it comes to promoting new formats, CC Utica has been more of a "sprinter" than a "distance runner." They get aggressive with their promotions out of the gate, but it seems as if they just give up after the first book comes out. News flash: brand new stations almost never overtake heritage stations overnight.

Look at how long Kiss had to contend with the "old" Rock 107, and how long Lite had to go up against KG-104. The reason they both came out ahead is because they stayed the course, kept up a strong promotional front, and kept up their attacks. You can't just keep flipping formats, you need to stick with one and keep at it until the leader makes their big mistake. This market is slow to change its habits. Forget taking over in 12 weeks, or even 12 books. I think Bob 102.5 could have been a contender with the Frog, but CC wasn't patient enough. Kool 93.5 is another example... though I don't think it was great, they didn't give that much time to develop either. Anyone who wants to work their way to the top of the ratings charts needs to be prepared to hunker down for the long run.

 

[BobRoss]

MIX is under no contract with the current voices - they are the same pieces I produced almost a year ago! I guess the old voice people said they didn’t care if there voices ran until they found another source.

Hey... have you noticed? Within the past few days... there are new imaging voices on Mix! They don't really sound "imaging-like" though. The male voice almost sounds like a typical jock. I finally heard a female voice for the first time tonight -- until then I was assuming they got rid of the 2-voice thing. She didn't sound too ... I'm not sure what word I'm looking for. Fresh? Sharp? Crisp? Either way, they just didn't sound like your typical "imaging" voices... a little weaker, actually. I wouldn't be surprised if they just had some jocks from another market read the liners... and they probably didn't get paid much for it, so they didn't bother to put much oomph into it.

The more interesting question though... did Utica management see this thread and voluntarily decide to change it up? Or did word of this get back to the "old" voice people, who probably thought they were replaced months ago, and raised a stink when they learned they were still being used gratis?

 

[Adman4120]

Hi Bob...You can be sure that everyone at CC in Utica reads this thread. The bottom line over there is this. They only have 2 sales people left from all of their original staff. And one of those people might be leaving soon too after other outlets continue to express intrest in them. The sales staff is new and in experienced.

From what I have heard Levine is still the lead person for the cluster. I was told Ed was set to go, but the other interested party that was going to buy KISS and The River fell through, so things are on hold for now. Obviously Levine does not want to buy the whole cluster and spin the other stations off himself and lose money. It would appear that when a buyer is ready for KISS, The River and a couple of the other AM stations, then Levine would be ready and everything can progress. I also thought that the few stations put in the Aloha Trust mysteriously came off. Again, I cannot say for sure if all of this info I telling you is 100% accurate, but this is what I have been told from some people close to the situation.

In the meantime, the remaining staff at CC in Utica was given the usual scolding/pep talk conversation by the Captain on how things are fine, nothing is going to change for at least 9-months to a year, and it's time to get down to business and do what we have always done.

What the cluster needs is a person who can really manage people, knows about programming and the business, not just the sales end of things, and someone who you can trust, not a talker behind peoples back. But, many in this business cannot work that way which is sad.

I do know that you do not hear much buzz about the CC stations in Utica except for KISS. The other three are all audience under achievers at the moment. Hopefully that will change. And on the liner people doing the voices...CC has always had a policy of posting a blanket listing on their internal site asking people in other markets if they would like to cut ads and/or promos and liners for one another. I would assume, some people from some of their other stations volunteered to produce some liners for MIX.

Have a great day.