Clear Channel Regarding AM-HD March 2002

[PocketRadio]

Statement of Jeff Littlejohn
Senior VP Engineering Services
Clear Channel Communications
Regarding AM IBOC Field observations

"However, if the results found in our abbreviated field test are representative, we feel the impact of adding IBOC to existing AM band will have a profoundly deleterious effect and will effectively end sky wave listening."

http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/NRSC eval iBiquityAM/Clearchannelrprt.pdf

Well, I can certainly vouch for WTOP/WTWP 1500 AM-HD clobbering WTRI 1520 AM - time to check out the Grundig Mini 300PE SW radio at Radio Shack !

 

[Mike Walker]

Engineers at Clear Channel should go back and re-read that!

I'm as bothered by the (stupid) 5khz analog bandwidth restriction as any potential interference. There is LOTS of music on AM radio around here, and in many parts of the country.

 

[clouseau]

"However, if the results found in our abbreviated field test are representative, we feel the impact of adding IBOC to existing AM band will have a profoundly deleterious effect and will effectively end sky wave listening."

http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/NRSC eval iBiquityAM/Clearchannelrprt.pdf

Well, I can certainly vouch for WTOP/WTWP 1500 AM-HD clobbering WTRI 1520 AM - time to check out the Grundig Mini 300PE SW radio at Radio Shack !

Actually, you can't. Their observations are about 1st adjacent interference. Your complaint is about 2nd adjacent and is almost certainly caused by a substandard receiver. Lose the Daytime DX on a $9.95 pocket radio. You're tring to do something for which that radio was never designed for.

Also, when it comes to WTRI, they "effectively end(ed) sky wave listening" when they originally licensed it. It's a daytimer. They're not getting much "Skywave listening" anyway. ;-)

Also the 5 year old comments state ...

...additional testing needs to be performed by the NRSC prior to issuing an opinion.

It's been over 5 years and it took a LONG time to get the rules written. That requested testing took place in that time.

Clouseau

 

[PocketRadio]

"However, if the results found in our abbreviated field test are representative, we feel the impact of adding IBOC to existing AM band will have a profoundly deleterious effect and will effectively end sky wave listening."

http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/NRSC eval iBiquityAM/Clearchannelrprt.pdf

Well, I can certainly vouch for WTOP/WTWP 1500 AM-HD clobbering WTRI 1520 AM - time to check out the Grundig Mini 300PE SW radio at Radio Shack !

Actually, you can't. Their observations are about 1st adjacent interference. Your complaint is about 2nd adjacent and is almost certainly caused by a substandard receiver. Lose the Daytime DX on a $9.95 pocket radio. You're tring to do something for which that radio was never designed for.

Also, when it comes to WTRI, they "effectively end(ed) sky wave listening" when they originally licensed it. It's a daytimer. They're not getting much "Skywave listening" anyway. ;-)

Also the 5 year old comments state ...

...additional testing needs to be performed by the NRSC prior to issuing an opinion.

It's been over 5 years and it took a LONG time to get the rules written. That requested testing took place in that time.

Clouseau

Actually on all of my radios, including the expensive car radios, WTWP was hissing all over WTRI during the daytime, so it is not the case of cheap receivers. 1510 and 1490 were completely obliterated by WTWP on all radios.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Well, I can certainly vouch for WTOP/WTWP 1500 AM-HD clobbering WTRI 1520 AM - time to check out the Grundig Mini 300PE SW radio at Radio Shack !

Listen - they "won", the listeners lost - the best hope now is to let the whole band get trashed by interference. Then when audiences crash because they can't hear any AM at all - we will get some relief because of all the bandruptcies. It may well be that the industry itself will do the FCC's job for them and come up with a way to stop jamming itself.

 

[Mike Walker]

Wishful thinking, rbruce. The FCC will never "de-authorize" a technology. Besides, what's wrong with IBOC isn't Ibiquity's fault anyhow, it's the FCC's for mandating an "in band, on channel" system as the only acceptable solution. With 200khz FM channels, no problem. With 10khz AM channels, well....

 

[PocketRadio]

Well, I can certainly vouch for WTOP/WTWP 1500 AM-HD clobbering WTRI 1520 AM - time to check out the Grundig Mini 300PE SW radio at Radio Shack !

Listen - they "won", the listeners lost - the best hope now is to let the whole band get trashed by interference. Then when audiences crash because they can't hear any AM at all - we will get some relief because of all the bandruptcies. It may well be that the industry itself will do the FCC's job for them and come up with a way to stop jamming itself.

"DX-midAMerica/IBOC comments"

"On Tuesday morning, I monitored the WOR-710 night time IBOC testing and found IBOC hash stretching from a mix of stations on 680 and extending to 750, getting into WSB's Atlanta signal. (The analog signal didn't affect anything other than 700 and 720 in comparison)... The e-mail states that this stronger version is actually the NORMAL version. He states the version now being used and used prior to Dec. 2nd is -6dB in power and was being used at that level at the request of iBiquity. The full strength version was being used at the request of the FCC and NAB to see what happens at night. "

http://www.angelfire.com/wi/Page3/iboc.html

"50,000-Watt AM stations"

http://www.northpine.com/broadcast/50kwam.html

Yup, it's over - back to SWL, if there is anything left to listen to besides religious and political fanatics. What is really amusing, is that looking at the 50KW list, almost all of the HD Radio Alliance's stations are adjacent and will be clobbering each other !

 

[Chuck]

Wishful thinking, rbruce. The FCC will never "de-authorize" a technology. Besides, what's wrong with IBOC isn't Ibiquity's fault anyhow, it's the FCC's for mandating an "in band, on channel" system as the only acceptable solution. With 200khz FM channels, no problem. With 10khz AM channels, well....

HD interference may be the accelerant that causes many marginal AM stations to go dark. When the reality of what their "real" coverage area becomes apparent, I think it will make for some tough going. In my neighborhood, several marginal (and one not-so-marginal) AM stations have gone dark. They have an ice cubes chance in hell to return to the air. Once the FCC places the dreaded letter "D" for "deleted" in front of your call sign, it might as well mean "dead."

In some ways, thinning the herd on AM might not be a bad thing, in others ways, I feel sorry for anyone who is driven out of business because of someone else’s actions, even though they may be perfectly within the rules. I guess it depends on the situation. Many marginal radio situations are the result of unbelievably bad management and/or ownership. There seems to be a real Slum Lord mentality to some of these owners. Basically, they buy a station for an exorbitant price using other people's money. They suck the station dry, default on the loan and move on, just to do it again. I've personally witnessed several AM stations get flushed down the toilet by uncaring greedy and just plain stupid owner-managers. While they may be laughing all the way to the bank, the communities who have lost their local service have certainly gained nothing, not have the people who invested their money..

On the other hand, not every small station owner is trying to get rich, and many truly have the best interests of their communities at heart. There are some really good and caring people who own small stations. They too are likely to be adversely affected by any potential new interference problems. It's not like there isn't already enough RF interference to go around from extraneous sources without intentionally generating more of it.

In any case, this is the situation we have, like it or not. Small stations will either have to figure out how to deal with it and make something positive out of the situation, or they are likely to be an endangered species. If a large number of stations go away, it will make it easier for the remainder to survive. That's pretty much the law of the jungle.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Wishful thinking, rbruce. The FCC will never "de-authorize" a technology. Besides, what's wrong with IBOC isn't Ibiquity's fault anyhow, it's the FCC's for mandating an "in band, on channel" system as the only acceptable solution. With 200khz FM channels, no problem. With 10khz AM channels, well....

The FCC is wishy washy, incompetant, corrupt, and useless. It should be dissolved as irrelevant, because it no longer follows the mandate under which the FRC was established, and that is to prevent interference.

I was not implying the FCC would act to de-authorize anything. They are too busy cashing checks from all those bribes Ibiquity paid. What I was saying is that the industry itself, faced with an untenable level of interference, will be forced to police itself and voluntarily stop the jamming.

The only way the FCC might act is if my prediction of interference complaints from foreign governments materializes. That is why I advocate adoption of AM IBOC as quickly and completely as possible, night and day. Deregulate transmitter power while they are at it, we might as well really stir up the electrons. When WLW and WOR and WGN all are at a few million watts each and still can't be heard more than a mile from the transmitter, the point will be made: AM IBOC cannot possibly work if all stations covert.

I disagree that there is no problem on FM. First adjacent interference is unacceptable. There are many listeners disenfranchised from NPR stations that are very angry - I wonder how much Ibiquity had to pay to get the web sites down that complained about it - like digitaldisaster.org

 

[PocketRadio]

... I wonder how much Ibiquity had to pay to get the web sites down that complained about it - like digitaldisaster.org

"VIRGINIA CENTER FOR THE PUBLIC PRESS PRESENTS: DigitalDisaster"

http://members.aol.com/deathurbia/indexdigitaldisaster.html

It's skeleton is still there, for all to see !

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Oh come on, of all URLs to post, that site is loaded with so much misinformation it fell down on its own from lack of interest. Nobody is mandating an end to analog FM. No stations are required to add IBOC. If you believe the "information" in that site, you probably also believe in the horror stories of imminent Global Cooling from the 60s and 70s.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

The FCC will never "de-authorize" a technology.

Never say "never." I give you two words in rebuttal: CBS color.

 

[Tom Wells]

Wishful thinking, rbruce. The FCC will never "de-authorize" a technology. Besides, what's wrong with IBOC isn't Ibiquity's fault anyhow, it's the FCC's for mandating an "in band, on channel" system as the only acceptable solution. With 200khz FM channels, no problem. With 10khz AM channels, well....

The FCC is wishy washy, incompetant, corrupt, and useless. It should be dissolved as irrelevant, because it no longer follows the mandate under which the FRC was established, and that is to prevent interference.

The only way the FCC might act is if my prediction of interference complaints from foreign governments materializes. That is why I advocate adoption of AM IBOC as quickly and completely as possible, night and day. Deregulate transmitter power while they are at it, we might as well really stir up the electrons. When WLW and WOR and WGN all are at a few million watts each and still can't be heard more than a mile from the transmitter, the point will be made: AM IBOC cannot possibly work if all stations covert.

I disagree that there is no problem on FM. First adjacent interference is unacceptable. There are many listeners disenfranchised from NPR stations that are very angry - I wonder how much Ibiquity had to pay to get the web sites down that complained about it - like digitaldisaster.org

Amen to abolishing the FCC, or authorizing a NEW FRC established to stop interference.
I think AM analogs being "stepped on" should immediately begin broadcasting 15 to 20 khz clip splatter to see if they can splat back on their own edge of
coverage, and perhaps unlock HD decoding of the offender. The FCC has authorized emissions well past audio, it looks like.
At least they should ignore the NRSC mask and let fly with wideband +125%.
I may put solid core spark wires in my car now.

I drove to central Wisconsin today, and listened to WOKY 920 HD AM in analog. They have gone to an oldies format, and it sounded like music on hold
back in the 80's. In "Ruvy Tuevday" all of the con onant were completely mi ing or indiftiguifable. Well done!
They sounded just as bad at night with the HD off.

WSCR was trashing WSM in Milwaukee tonight, and also radio disney 1640 which has been testing iBoc was without today daytime.

The FM does put a multipath like noise into stereo analog FM no doubt. I can live without stereo.
I leave others to fight the FM beast. With my DNR unit I can strip off most FM multi-pathesque noises.

Sure am glad I don't have to choose between implementing such a travesty vs. my paychecks.

 

[R.F. Burns]

The FCC will never "de-authorize" a technology.

Never say "never." I give you two words in rebuttal: CBS color.

IN the case of the CBS color wheel, the reason for its loss to NTSC color was due to it not being compatible with existing black and white (Think drm) It wasn't as much that the FCC decided to disallow the CBS color system as it was the FCC's decision to choose a competing system as the color standard for the US. In that respect it's similar to what's taking place today.

 

[PocketRadio]

Statement of Jeff Littlejohn
Senior VP Engineering Services
Clear Channel Communications
Regarding AM IBOC Field observations

"However, if the results found in our abbreviated field test are representative, we feel the impact of adding IBOC to existing AM band will have a profoundly deleterious effect and will effectively end sky wave listening."

http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/NRSC eval iBiquityAM/Clearchannelrprt.pdf

Well, I can certainly vouch for WTOP/WTWP 1500 AM-HD clobbering WTRI 1520 AM - time to check out the Grundig Mini 300PE SW radio at Radio Shack !

"AM IBOC Nighttime Compatibility"

"... nighttime AM IBOC will have little or no impact on analog listening in the majority of cases."

http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/iBiquity AM nighttime studies/AM Nighttime Compatibility report.pdf

iBiquity's B.S. response !

 

[Mike Walker]

Up is down, black is white. If 'Baghdad Bob' says it, the opposite is true.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Up is down, black is white. If 'Baghdad Bob' says it, the opposite is true.

Thanks for your comment, Baghdad Bob/Mike Walker.