Cleveland and NE Ohio Media in 2023

[Yabadabado1]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Big 3 radio media companies in town have a wink & a nod relationship of "We promise we won't change any of our stations formats to compete with your station formats if you promise to do the same."

 

[DavidEduardo]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Big 3 radio media companies in town have a wink & a nod relationship of "We promise we won't change any of our stations formats to compete with your station formats if you promise to do the same."

Very doubtful. And illegal as all h--l. More likely is that the cost of a format change is so high that it is much more profitable to adjust and fine tune an existing format than to change one totally.

A format change has initial start-up costs, including severance for employees who don't fit the new proposition, and change-over costs such as initial music research, hiring expenses like relocation costs, and more. The billing drops to near zero, so there is loss for many months, and no guarantee that the new format will do any better... so count on nearly a year's revenue being lost.

 

[Yabadabado1]

And illegal as all h--l.


Yeah.....illegal, once they get caught. I do remember the PD at one station I was at way back in the 70s mentioning "discussions" with another station about "swapping" formats with said station or maybe "tweaking" their playlists so one wasn't playing as much of the same music as each other [which made me think "why swap?"] But I was a baby DJ at the time and brought up "That doesn't seem very ethical in my book." [Boy, did I learn latter on about some stations "ethics"] and he clammed up about it. I don't think anything ever happened between the two.

 

[radiofollower]

Here’s the thing: format changes are less and less likely as ownership groups don’t see a need to change what works for them. And for many stations, they are set up to do well in target demos and to flank their co-owned properties: WMMS and The Fan are perfect examples of this. Welcome to economy of scale.

The days of rivalries between stations a la G98 vs. WMMS are pretty much extinct. Audacy isn’t going to flip one of their stations to country and iHeart isn’t going to flip one of their stations to mainstream AC, and Salem won’t flip any of their AMs to anything that could draw an audience (as tiny and old as it would be).

The only true oddball station in the market is WNWV. It’s changed format twice since 2019 and hasn’t really made any impact. Mostly because it’s a stand-alone rimshot that can’t compete with the other chains. Aside from #whoisjeny, they don’t have the resources to front a marketing budget of any sort. I don’t know how long they’ll last.

Plus, with the alternative format, they are aiming for an audience of younger people who generally don't listen to radio for music anymore. Note that they blew up the only commercial alt station in New York City to create WINS-FM. If you can't make it with alt in New York City, where else?

 

[vw86]

Or at least change some call letters, for Pete's sake. The "WMMS" of 2023 is nowhere close to the "WMMS" of the 70s, nor is WMJI anywhere near it's Majic AC format of the 80s or their Oldies format thereafter. Let go of the legendary call letters if you obviously don't respect nor acknowledge their origins anymore.

And what would the purpose of that be? Those calls are meaningless in any other market. And both of the stations are still running the modern day version of the format they made famous with those calls. Both stations are doing great and have loyal followings. Why on earth would they change their calls?

 

[Yabadabado1]

And what would the purpose of that be? Those calls are meaningless in any other market. And both of the stations are still running the modern day version of the format they made famous with those calls. Both stations are doing great and have loyal followings. Why on earth would they change their calls?

And what station even bothers with their call letters anymore except for the legal ID at the top of the hour? It's all "positioning" now.....:Kiss", "Star 102", The Buzzard", "Majic" "Alternative Cleveland", "K-Rock", "The Lizard", "The Blizzard", and so on and so forth. And they're all coming to you from "Ruptured Hemorhoid Treatment Center" studio or some other stupidly named studio.

 

[The Diamond]

And what station even bothers with their call letters anymore except for the legal ID at the top of the hour?

And I have noticed over the past few years that the legal ID sometimes doesn't even make it............ with automation, sometimes it is overlooked.........What happens if you don't do the legal ID anymore????????? Does the FCC really care? Just a thought!

 

[skiwest]

WCCD, when they were still on the air, used to ID as Cleveland Heights instead of Parma.

 

[vw86]

And I have noticed over the past few years that the legal ID sometimes doesn't even make it............ with automation, sometimes it is overlooked.........What happens if you don't do the legal ID anymore????????? Does the FCC really care? Just a thought!

I still hear the Legal ID. It is becoming more common to hear it compressed and buried in a stopset, which often means you don't hear it on a stream.

And they're all coming to you from "Ruptured Hemorhoid Treatment Center" studio

Now *that* is a Casey Kasem outtake I would like to hear.

 

[radiofollower]

And what would the purpose of that be? Those calls are meaningless in any other market. And both of the stations are still running the modern day version of the format they made famous with those calls. Both stations are doing great and have loyal followings. Why on earth would they change their calls?

WMJI is doing well, but WMMS' current ratings (outside of sports play-by-play) are only mediocre.

 

[skiwest]

Or at least change some call letters, for Pete's sake. The "WMMS" of 2023 is nowhere close to the "WMMS" of the 70s, nor is WMJI anywhere near it's Majic AC format of the 80s or their Oldies format thereafter. Let go of the legendary call letters if you obviously don't respect nor acknowledge their origins anymore.

And how about WNWV since they are no longer "The Wave".

 

[MegaBlue]

After a while, call letters don't really carry that much weight, except if you're launching a new named format and can secure the letters. It's not anything like how it used to be in the old days, especially given that you can stream about 80% of terrestrial radio stations - if not more - in some capacity through a given app. Now, if you completely flip a format and still keep the same branding? That's where I'd have an issue... Unless it becomes comical, like all-alternative jenY 107.3.

Personally, instead of the to-do over call letters, let's bring back the specialized top-hour station identifiers! It's wildly inappropriate now given what happened back in 2001, but 92.3 The Beat's launch top-hour identifier was literally "Broadcasting live from the top of a really tall building with red lights so planes don't fly into it, this is the new 92.3 The Beat! Cleveland's Jammin' Oldies!" Shoot, even the old KISS 104.9/96.5 top-hour identifiers with the artists coming on and saying "Hey, this is [so-and-so], and you're listening to KISS-FM!" Yes, it was just stock audio clips, but it felt good to hear the variety they'd put together at the top of any given hour. Also, all of this is saying nothing about the station-specific versions of certain songs some artists would put out. Remember when Shania Twain did "That Don't Impress Me Much" and had specific DJs put in? "Okay, so you're Dan Deely... That don't impress me much!"

Radio of the late '90s and early '00s truly was something.

 

[Nathan Obral]

Call letters ceased being important once PPM was implemented; you no longer needed to write down calls in diaries. If stations like WMMS, WGAR and WTAM didn’t have legacies with call letters as brands, they’d be “Rock 100.7”, “Country 99.5” and “News Talk 1100”.

That being said, WMJI’s “Majic” name feels like it doesn’t fit with the classic hits format as the music inevitably shifts further to 80s-90s. If iHeart renamed the station “Greatest Hits 105.7” I wouldn’t shed a tear.

 

[Northcoast43]

Call letters ceased being important once PPM was implemented; you no longer needed to write down calls in diaries. If stations like WMMS, WGAR and WTAM didn’t have legacies with call letters as brands, they’d be “Rock 100.7”, “Country 99.5” and “News Talk 1100”.

That being said, WMJI’s “Majic” name feels like it doesn’t fit with the classic hits format as the music inevitably shifts further to 80s-90s. If iHeart renamed the station “Greatest Hits 105.7” I wouldn’t shed a tear.

Maybe "Tragic 105.7" as that stations format has gone downhill over the past ten years.

WTAM still strikes me as 3WE, and that was long ago. Despite WGAR being a country station since the mid-1980's (earlier on the FM side), it's calls still remind me of it's time as the Adult Contemporary/"Lanigan" A.M. station of the 1970's and early 80's. WHK and KS100 still remind me more of the Country stations in the area.

Also, WLTF, WMVX, or WHLK??? The WMVX 106.5 still seemed the better choice of those three.

 

[vw86]

Maybe "Tragic 105.7" as that stations format has gone downhill over the past ten years.

You mean it has followed the trends and evolved into a modern day Classic Hits station that comes in as one of the top 3 stations in the market most months? But because you don't like the music it is a downhill tragedy.

Also, WLTF, WMVX, or WHLK??? The WMVX 106.5 still seemed the better choice of those three.

Well, when it was Lite it was WLTF. When it was Mix it was WMVX ("The Variety is in the Mix!") and now that it's The Lake it is WHLK. It makes sense to me.

 

[Nathan Obral]

You mean it has followed the trends and evolved into a modern day Classic Hits station that comes in as one of the top 3 stations in the market most months? But because you don't like the music it is a downhill tragedy.

Not uncommon among threads devoted to other classic hits stations here and elsewhere (WCBS-FM is often a target despite the best ratings they’ve ever had in the format). It’s change so therefore It Must Be Bad®️.

WMJI actively avoided evolving by the directives of past management. That’s all well and good but they were among the oldest-skewing stations in the format. The morning show couldn’t realistically remaining running on the fumes of Lanigan forever, either.

Well, when it was Lite it was WLTF. When it was Mix it was WMVX ("The Variety is in the Mix!") and now that it's The Lake it is WHLK. It makes sense to me.

No average person refers to The Lake as WHLK. They could have kept the WMVX calls, buried them in a :50 stopset, and no one would care.

I forget when Akron and Canton converted from diary to PPM but that’d be the only rationale for the change.

 

[Yabadabado1]

You mean it has followed the trends and evolved into a modern day Classic Hits station that comes in as one of the top 3 stations in the market most months? But because you don't like the music it is a downhill tragedy.

Well, when it was Lite it was WLTF. When it was Mix it was WMVX ("The Variety is in the Mix!") and now that it's The Lake it is WHLK. It makes sense to me.

And they had the call letters WZZP [Zip 106] starting in March 1977. If I recall correctly, they had a Top 40 format which soon became Top 20 [or seemed like it did] I can remember hearing some songs 3 times an hour, specifically "Tragedy" by the Bee Gees and some Rod Stewart song whose name I can't recall right now. They started doing that and I started tuning out.
By the way, the WZZP call letters now reside on a rock radio station in Clarksville, Tennessee along the TN and Kentucky border.

 

[Northcoast43]

You mean it has followed the trends and evolved into a modern day Classic Hits station that comes in as one of the top 3 stations in the market most months? But because you don't like the music it is a downhill tragedy.

The entire station: DJ's, music, paid advertisements (and length), lack of steady weekend programming. Became too corporate over the past decade. That would be I-Hearts privilege when they own a chunk of stations in the same market.

I'd almost be curious as to how their demographic changed over the past two decades. Those listener's aged and probably are of no concern to the station heads and advertisers. (Money, money, money). Also, when so many stations in a market are owned by a single entity. I'd imagine they have a "balancing act" of keeping each with ratings and revenue. (Personally, wouldn't envy that task. WHLK & WMJI are probably closest to having matching formats, so there is a decent mix of formats among the six.)

Ironic, as I remember WBBG losing it's "Big band" format in the mid-1980's. The 60+ age group weren't too happy with that either.

 

[vw86]

(Money, money, money)

Because it's a business, business, business.

Just like you don't work for free for your employer, expenses don't come free for Majic 105.7 just because they are a radio station.

Do I miss local jocks on a station like Majic? Of course. Do I understand that a live jock in the Majic studio or a tracked out of market jock are essentially going to say the same thing and play the same music, therefore rendering the live, local jock irrelevant for 95% of the listening audience? I do.

If playing 50s and 60s hits with live jocks brought in the money, stations would be doing it.

 

[thenetwork]

Let me use this analogy:

There is a legacy Italian Restaurant in Cleveland that has been around for decades called Tony's. The dishes and recipies have remained the same, with a a few minor changes to keep up with the times (ie, adding a gluten-free menu). The restaurant has renovated their appearance over the years to look nice and modern. The restaurant has had changes in owners and managers, but have kept the name of the restaurant the same because people know the name for it's Italian food.

Now the restaurant was bought by a new owner who either decides to turn it into a Chinese restaurant or a sports bar serving just a fraction of the legacy food they used to offer -- but they will keep the name of the restaurant the same.

Meanwhile, a person decides to go to the new Tony's expecting a great Italian meal that used to be the best in town for decades, only to find out that Tony's only serves Asian dishes or sub-par Italian meals in a bar where beer is now preferred over wine and the service and ambiance is nowhere close to what it was. Most older people who remember the original Tony's are now saying, "What The ______??? Why do they still call it Tony's?".

Meanwhile the new Tony's only makes a fraction of what they did compared to it's biggest years in the 80s and 90s. But they are content at their lackluster product and keep saying it's about the Tony's and it's legacy, because the ownership is a team of investors that owns many restaurants across the country and are turning Cleveland's Tony's into an exact clone of their other restaurants. Yet they don't cater to the older crowd, or more importantly spend time to introduce the younger generation what made Tony's original food so great (the food, the atmosphere, the service to the customers).

Something to think about.