Cleveland JACK FM Rumors Start Again

[OldAkronite]

<a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2005/07/report-jack-fm-rumored-for-cleveland.html>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2005/07/report-jack-fm-rumored-for-cleveland.html</a>

Copying my blog post below to start the discussion here:

------------

Those "JACK FM" rumors are flying again.

This time, it's Radio Business Report weighing in on the matter. In RBR's morning newsletter, they hear Infinity will "soon flip" one of its Cleveland FMs to the eclectic format otherwise known as "Variety Hits" or "Adult Hits".

RBR believes the "iPod on shuffle" format will land at either WQAL or WDOK, though it's tough to say whether they're getting this information from their sources, or are just guessing based on the format composition of Infinity's stations in the market. Their phrase: "We would estimate WQAL or WDOK."

For us radio observer types, it's time to dedicate our presets to 104.1 or 102.1 and see if we hear some guy interrupting the songs, declaring it's time to "play what we want"...<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[xiradiodotcom]

> RBR believes the "iPod on shuffle" format will land at
> either WQAL or WDOK, though it's tough to say whether
> they're getting this information from their sources, or are
> just guessing based on the format composition of Infinity's
> stations in the market. Their phrase: "We would estimate
> WQAL or WDOK."
>
> For us radio observer types, it's time to dedicate our
> presets to 104.1 or 102.1 and see if we hear some guy
> interrupting the songs, declaring it's time to "play what we
> want"...
>

I though WDOK did very well in its demos. WQAL would be the logical choice, its format isn't too far from a Jack.<P ID="signature">______________
Chris
Energy X - Modern & Alternative Rock
energyradio.fm</P>

 

[cmatthews]

> > RBR believes the "iPod on shuffle" format will land at
> > either WQAL or WDOK, though it's tough to say whether
> > they're getting this information from their sources, or
> are
> > just guessing based on the format composition of
> Infinity's
> > stations in the market. Their phrase: "We would estimate
> > WQAL or WDOK."
> >
> > For us radio observer types, it's time to dedicate our
> > presets to 104.1 or 102.1 and see if we hear some guy
> > interrupting the songs, declaring it's time to "play what
> we
> > want"...
> >
>
> I though WDOK did very well in its demos. WQAL would be the
> logical choice, its format isn't too far from a Jack.
>


Not WDOK. It's very strong P25-54, and makes $$$. I agee with the above, WQAL is the most likely of the two.
<P ID="signature">______________
Chuck Matthews Productions
www.KillerImaging.com
http://chuckmatthews1.voice123.com/</P>

 

[scoob]

Kind of a no-brainer.

WQAL is easily the weaker of the two. Question is, will Infinity retain the airstaff? Most of the JACKs are jockless.

I'd be surprised if Allen Fee gets to stay. What has he accomplished at Q over the past 4 years or so? Not much.

 

[nate81]

> > > RBR believes the "iPod on shuffle" format will land at
> > > either WQAL or WDOK, though it's tough to say whether
> > > they're getting this information from their sources, or are
> > > just guessing based on the format composition of Infinity's
> > > stations in the market. Their phrase: "We would estimate
> > > WQAL or WDOK."
> > >
> > > For us radio observer types, it's time to dedicate our
> > > presets to 104.1 or 102.1 and see if we hear some guy
> > > interrupting the songs, declaring it's time to "play what we
> > > want"...
> > >
> >
> > I though WDOK did very well in its demos. WQAL would be the
> > logical choice, its format isn't too far from a Jack.
>
> Not WDOK. It's very strong P25-54, and makes $$$. I agee
> with the above, WQAL is the most likely of the two.

Agreed. If the "Whatever Weekends" at Q are any sign...

(Though, to be fair, PD Allen Fee told the PD some time ago that THIS was due to listeners getting tired of "All 80's" and "All 90's" weekends all the time... whatever

Hell, I'd rather have had WQAL go with "Jammin' Oldies" back in 1999 and NOT WZJM, no? IIRC, "Jam'n 92.3" had it's highest ratings ever right before Chancellor/AMFM pulled the plug!

- nate81
<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[nate]

I am going to float WNCX as the winner...
It is in trouble without Stern, and if the rumors of Howard leaving BEFORE the end of the year are true, it would make sense to blow the whole thing up at once.

Or...(albeit unlikely)
Classic rock goes away, Extreme goes to 98.5, Jack goes to 92.3

 

[nate81]

> Kind of a no-brainer.
>
> WQAL is easily the weaker of the two. Question is, will
> Infinity retain the airstaff? Most of the JACKs are
> jockless.
>
> I'd be surprised if Allen Fee gets to stay. What has he
> accomplished at Q over the past 4 years or so? Not much.
>

I'd like Jen Toohey and John Conner to migrate to WDOK... maybe Fig to WXTM... but probably wouldn't happen. Bear in mind that when Baltimore's WQSR, Chicago's WJMK and New York's WCBS-FM all got hi"Jack"-ed, everyone was let go.

If Allan Fee gets to stay, there's something seriously wrong here. But he assuredly wouldn't be in AMD - the biggest flash of a PD's ego this side of an alleged "sports-talker" using THEIR PD as it's imaging voice

Just dreaming here... why not have Jim Davis program the soon-to-be "Jack"? I seriously would like to see how he would approach the format.

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[nate81]

> I am going to float WNCX as the winner...
> It is in trouble without Stern, and if the rumors of Howard
> leaving BEFORE the end of the year are true, it would make
> sense to blow the whole thing up at once.
>
> Or...(albeit unlikely)
> Classic rock goes away, Extreme goes to 98.5, Jack goes to
> 92.3
>

I'll top you with THIS:

The Q dies, 104.1 becomes "104X" with the Xtreme format (love to see the calls be changed to WXEN instead - the original 106.5 calls), and 92.3 still gets hi"Jack"-ed!

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[RMHinNEO]

> Hell, I'd rather have had WQAL go with "Jammin' Oldies" back
> in 1999 and NOT WZJM, no? IIRC, "Jam'n 92.3" had it's
> highest ratings ever right before Chancellor/AMFM pulled the
> plug!


"Jammin 92.3" was at it's highest numbers, yes. It would have been an interesting landscape had that happened. Would a WAKS have entered the picture? Would WKDD still be on 96.5?
Oh well, those are all what if's.

My money goes on WQAL. It could be WDOK too. It will be in that shack at 26th and East St Clair known as One Radio Lane.

(and I personally haven't met a "JACK" I liked. Ted in Columbus was the best that I have heard. Very HAC leaning)

 

[RMHinNEO]

> I'll top you with THIS:
>
> The Q dies, 104.1 becomes "104X" with the Xtreme format
> (love to see the calls be changed to WXEN instead - the
> original 106.5 calls), and 92.3 still gets hi"Jack"-ed!


IMHO, this makes sense. I think there is a market for Xtreme/X/WXTM/whatever in Akron/Canton.
It makes sense. So don't bet on it.

 

[nate]

92.3 and 98.5 are the only HD radio signals in the Infinity Cleveland cluster.
Does that matter? I dunno...

How would the sales depts of the stations work with Jack, xtreme, WDOK and WQAL?

Would it be better to package Classic Rock and Modern Rock in one bucket and Jack and WDOK in the other? Could Jack be successfully packaged with xtreme?

I think a classic/rock modern rock combo and a Jack/AC combo works best from a sales perspective, but I still think that Classic Rock is in deep trouble without a very strong morning lead-in.

 

[nate81]

> > Hell, I'd rather have had WQAL go with "Jammin' Oldies" back
> > in 1999 and NOT WZJM, no? IIRC, "Jam'n 92.3" had it's
> > highest ratings ever right before Chancellor/AMFM pulled the
> > plug!
>
>
> "Jammin 92.3" was at it's highest numbers, yes. It would
> have been an interesting landscape had that happened. Would
> a WAKS have entered the picture? Would WKDD still be on
> 96.5?
> Oh well, those are all what if's.

It's possible that WAKS could still have come into being. Note that it's predecessor, WZLE-FM, was a Christian Contemporary outlet that was just sold to CC from Vernon Baldwin weeks eariler. (Trivia: Len Howser, now the morning man at WFHM/95.5, had like duties at WZLE!)

WZLE's studios were located at the antiquated Antlers Hotel in downtown Lorain; whereas WAKS was at the old WHK/1420 studios with WMMS and WMVX at Tower City. So WAKS was probably a given.

But WAKS would have been jockless the whole time - no Dan Mason or Kasper. Maybe the pre-recorded Sean Valentine...

WCLV was going to broker a deal anyways with CC and Salem. The 95/5 signal was too much of a liability for Robert Conrad, and it had to be traded away. WAKS, if it still was jockless at that point - and with the established WZJM spanking 104.9 - *might* have just gone away.

(Just think: had WKDD stayed at 96.5, 98.1 could have become WAKS "98.1 KissFM" for the Canton area - to destroy WZKL. But WKDD did so anyways

Or... note that CC sued Radio One for the right to the "Kiss" name, just after WENZ was killed off and flipped to "Kiss 107.9..." Radio One gave up the fight and switched the postioner to "Z-107.9," and CC responded by flipping the WZLE calls to WAKS. Would CC have that same determination here? Maybe not.

> My money goes on WQAL. It could be WDOK too. It will be in
> that shack at 26th and East St Clair known as One Radio
> Lane.
>
> (and I personally haven't met a "JACK" I liked. Ted in
> Columbus was the best that I have heard. Very HAC leaning)

Ted is the best name of all of them, too. Right up with Ben.

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> How would the sales depts of the stations work with Jack,
> xtreme, WDOK and WQAL?

Same way they do now--lazy and uninspired.

But maybe I'm just cynical today.

 

[AllMightySting]

)
>
>
> Ted is the best name of all of them, too. Right up with Ben.
>

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the name Ben too.....but I have other reasons to be partial to it

I like the idea of the modern rock moving to 104 and going with the 104X imaging and the WEXN call letters...but please no more Cleveland's Extreme Radio, that needs to be changed. Kick the Hot AC/Jack/Play Whatever format back down to 92.3, where in my mind hit music still belongs seeing as if I grew up with Jammin' 92 being one of the top stations in town.

Why anyone would mess with WDOK is beyond me, seeing as if it is a ratings/money monster. What about switching WNCX from classic rock to a more AAA/Singer Songwriter based format. You could package the modern rock and jack together aimed towards the 18-35 and then package WDOK and WNCX towards the older crowd.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Cleveland JACK FM Rumors Start Again--and the State of Cleveland Rdaio PDs

> I'd like Jen Toohey and John Conner to migrate to WDOK...
> maybe Fig to WXTM... but probably wouldn't happen. Bear in
> mind that when Baltimore's WQSR, Chicago's WJMK and New
> York's WCBS-FM all got hi"Jack"-ed, everyone was let go.

Would their style be too (for lack of a better phrase here) "upbeat" for WDOK? I dunno the answer, so I'm just asking. WDOK did have Matt the Cat in afternoons for the longest time (why'd they get rid of him?)

> If Allan Fee gets to stay, there's something seriously wrong
> here. But he assuredly wouldn't be in AMD - the biggest
> flash of a PD's ego this side of an alleged "sports-talker"
> using THEIR PD as it's imaging voice

If HE went to WDOK, that would be, to quote my girlfriend's brother, "the pits". WDOK has a well-crafted, meticulously researched format, doing a great service by keeping Majic in check. It's essentially the Dave Popovich format book STILL (almost 6 years after he left 102). Fee would be nothing but trouble there--his act and programming skews too young, and ineffective.

> Just dreaming here... why not have Jim Davis program the
> soon-to-be "Jack"? I seriously would like to see how he
> would approach the format.

I fear, Nate, that you and I are the only ones here who would welcome that. Jim Davis is a great programmer, for lots of variety formats--his WRMR at 850, and the latter days at 1420, was a textbook way to add in new standards and easy listening, as well as a decent crop of oldies and lost gold, to what's perceived as a stagnant format.

But, seeing as how Davis is now, unceremoniously working for himself (and Ron Trycznski, of the Original Mattress Factory, who pays for the airtiem at 1300), it shows that todays radio management hasn't been willing to reach out to the successful programmers in markets.

Let's look at the PDs now sitting on the sidelines, all successful:

John Gorman
Denny Sanders (alright, he's making mega bucks as a Telos exec)
Jim Davis
Eric Stevens
Lynn Tolliver (he's as PD in Youngstown, granted)
Chris Quinn

And that's just off the top of my head. Gorman would be prime pickings for a Jack PD, except:

(a) he hates the format
(b) he likes personalities
(c) he's a freethinker, and
(d) he'd never step foot in an Infinity building.

But on paper, who else has had experience with the core Jack music: oldies (WMJI), 70s-80s classic rock (WMMS), and 90s rock (WMMS-The Next Generation). If it wasn't such a dud flash-in-the-pan format, I'd nominate John Gorman as Jack PD. But Jack has no sustaining power, and I have plans for Gorman to PD my oldies station after I win the Mega Millions jackpot.

 

[nate81]

> )
> >
> >
> > Ted is the best name of all of them, too. Right up with
> Ben.
> >
>
> Yeah, I'm a big fan of the name Ben too.....but I have other
> reasons to be partial to it
>
> I like the idea of the modern rock moving to 104 and going
> with the 104X imaging and the WEXN call letters...but please
> no more Cleveland's Extreme Radio, that needs to be changed.
> Kick the Hot AC/Jack/Play Whatever format back down to
> 92.3, where in my mind hit music still belongs seeing as if
> I grew up with Jammin' 92 being one of the top stations in
> town.

I have wanted this dream to happen for the longest time. And I agree: that "Extreme Radio" mouthful postioning needs to be dropped, well, yesterday...

Hey, if Infinity wants to hire me as a consultant for all this, I'm available - even for $5.75 per hour. All I just need to do is sit back, and let my mind wander ;D

> Why anyone would mess with WDOK is beyond me, seeing as if
> it is a ratings/money monster. What about switching WNCX
> from classic rock to a more AAA/Singer Songwriter based
> format. You could package the modern rock and jack together
> aimed towards the 18-35 and then package WDOK and WNCX
> towards the older crowd.

Interesting idea. Why not image such a format on WNCX as "98.5 The River" or "98.5 The Coast"?

Some change has to be coming soon to WNCX. They can't survive without Stern at all. It's a far worse case than with WMJI and Lanigan/Malone. (I don't care for those old rumors of a Rover simulcast on WXTM and WNCX - that ain't going to cut it.)

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[wscx200]

> 92.3 and 98.5 are the only HD radio signals in the Infinity
> Cleveland cluster.
> Does that matter? I dunno...
>
> How would the sales depts of the stations work with Jack,
> xtreme, WDOK and WQAL?
>
> Would it be better to package Classic Rock and Modern Rock
> in one bucket and Jack and WDOK in the other? Could Jack be
> successfully packaged with xtreme?
>
> I think a classic/rock modern rock combo and a Jack/AC combo
> works best from a sales perspective, but I still think that
> Classic Rock is in deep trouble without a very strong
> morning lead-in.
>
I think QAL is already so close to a jack. I'd keep DOK intact, put XTM on 98.5, Jack on 104.1 and NCX - Classic rock on 92.3. Ak/Canton already have 97.5 playing classic rock and WXTM on 98.5 could do well covering Cle/Ak/Canton.

 

[nate81]

Re: Cleveland JACK FM Rumors Start Again--and the State of Cleveland Rdaio PDs

> > I'd like Jen Toohey and John Conner to migrate to WDOK...
> > maybe Fig to WXTM... but probably wouldn't happen. Bear in
> > mind that when Baltimore's WQSR, Chicago's WJMK and New
> > York's WCBS-FM all got hi"Jack"-ed, everyone was let go.
>
> Would their style be too (for lack of a better phrase here)
> "upbeat" for WDOK? I dunno the answer, so I'm just asking.
> WDOK did have Matt the Cat in afternoons for the longest
> time (why'd they get rid of him?)

I have no real idea. He was in AMD first; then moved to PMD after Trapper Jack arrived in 1994.

He left at the same time Carolyn Carr came to host the 7-12 slot. Ironically, she debuted on WDOK at the same time WLTF flailed away with "Deliah" for a few weeks. Yes, the very same Deliah that eventually replaced Carr in 1999!

> > If Allan Fee gets to stay, there's something seriously wrong
> > here. But he assuredly wouldn't be in AMD - the biggest
> > flash of a PD's ego this side of an alleged "sports-talker"
> > using THEIR PD as it's imaging voice
>
> If HE went to WDOK, that would be, to quote my girlfriend's
> brother, "the pits". WDOK has a well-crafted, meticulously
> researched format, doing a great service by keeping Majic in
> check. It's essentially the Dave Popovich format book STILL
> (almost 6 years after he left 102). Fee would be nothing
> but trouble there--his act and programming skews too young,
> and ineffective.

I have no clue what his philosophy is at the Q. It appears to be a "Jack"-lite: no overall direction with the playlist, but, hell, let's play that same damn Lenny Kravitz or Goo Goo Dolls song over and over and over. A total mess.

And let's not get started on how he took a decent AMD show into one of the worst radio shows that Cleveland's ever seen (by virtue of longetivity...)

> > Just dreaming here... why not have Jim Davis program the
> > soon-to-be "Jack"? I seriously would like to see how he
> > would approach the format.
>
> I fear, Nate, that you and I are the only ones here who
> would welcome that. Jim Davis is a great programmer, for
> lots of variety formats--his WRMR at 850, and the latter
> days at 1420, was a textbook way to add in new standards and
> easy listening, as well as a decent crop of oldies and lost
> gold, to what's perceived as a stagnant format.
>
> But, seeing as how Davis is now, unceremoniously working for
> himself (and Ron Trycznski, of the Original Mattress
> Factory, who pays for the airtiem at 1300), it shows that
> todays radio management hasn't been willing to reach out to
> the successful programmers in markets.
>
> Let's look at the PDs now sitting on the sidelines, all
> successful:
>
> John Gorman
> Denny Sanders (alright, he's making mega bucks as a Telos
> exec)
> Jim Davis
> Eric Stevens
> Lynn Tolliver (he's as PD in Youngstown, granted)

Probably not for long. WRTK, according to OA, is being sold to the Glunt group.

> And that's just off the top of my head. Gorman would be
> prime pickings for a Jack PD, except:
>
> (a) he hates the format
> (b) he likes personalities
> (c) he's a freethinker, and
> (d) he'd never step foot in an Infinity building.
>
> But on paper, who else has had experience with the core Jack
> music: oldies (WMJI), 70s-80s classic rock (WMMS), and 90s
> rock (WMMS-The Next Generation). If it wasn't such a dud
> flash-in-the-pan format, I'd nominate John Gorman as Jack
> PD. But Jack has no sustaining power, and I have plans for
> Gorman to PD my oldies station after I win the Mega Millions
> jackpot.

I agree. Oh, if only I could set up a betting line on "how long will Jack last?"

Jack is nothing more that a gimmick - especially considering the great stations that Infinity has bludgoned on a nationwide basis to bring it on.

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[ATyler]

I don't see WQAL being the "Jack" station... I KNOW WDOK won't be, based on the cash that it brings in.

I'm more agreeable to the WNCX theory. With Stern possibly being gone before the Fall book, they will need answers for 'NCX... You would also have to think that many, if not most, of the advertisers that WNCX currently has are drawn by Stern, so they'll need a new segment of advertisers to go after.. Thus, "Jack" on WNCX makes sense.

Also, while we're throwing names around... How about "Drew?" Okay, never mind.
<P ID="signature">______________
Aaron Tyler
Afternoons / MD
WVZA / Marion - Carbondale, IL
www.kissfm927.com

Weekends / Swing
KSLZ / St. Louis
WAKZ / Youngstown, OH
</P>

 

[AllMightySting]

>
> I have wanted this dream to happen for the longest time. And
> I agree: that "Extreme Radio" mouthful postioning needs to
> be dropped, well, yesterday...

Amen to that. Not to mention it sounds pretty silly when you come out of the new Coldplay song calling yourself Extreme Radio.

> Interesting idea. Why not image such a format on WNCX as
> "98.5 The River" or "98.5 The Coast"?

Yeah, it'd be great to see a station come in here and pick up a non-generic moniker that actually has something to do with the city. I think WMMS is the only one here imgaging that has anything remotely to do with the area.

AAA is such a cool format, and can be done in so many different ways. WNCX could pull it off and still mix in some of the classic rock artists that are currently on its playlist...it would make the transition that much easier. I'm sure WMMS would jump in and adjust its playlist a little bit to fill in the void left behind. Only problem would be making sure the "new" WNCX didn't stray too far into WDOK territory.