• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Cleveland Rock Radio in 2012

C

CleveFan

With the change set to change WNWV from Adult Album Alternative to Smooth Adult Contemporary, along with WKRK going from Alternative Rock to Sports, the outlook on rock radio is pretty bleak. The only commercial stations playing rock of any sort as of now are WNCX (Classic Rock) and WMMS (Active Rock with Hot Talk mixed in).

WNCX is staying the course for now, but WMMS has been leaning more on the Alternative side lately. With the modern rock stations gone, the Buzzard has too focus more on newer music. I personally would like 'MMS to flip to Alternative while keeping the talk shows and Browns games. There's already plenty of Classic Rock to go around in Cleveland and Akron.

College radio is the only other option out there locally, and there are some pretty good stations on the left side of the dial. WBWC on Cleveland's West Side and WJCU on Cleveland's East Side good options for those looking for a good rock fix. Then there's WAPS out of Akron, which is a killer AAA station.

Basically, it's different today compared to when WENZ flipped from Alternative to Urban back in 1999. With Pandora, iPods, and other internet, phone app options, there seems to be not too much of an outcry for the formats that left the commercial side of the dial, even there are those who want to hear them on terrestrial radio.

I do wonder what will happen to rock radio in 2012. Will there be new options coming or fewer choices coming?
 
I agree that the outlook for rock radio in Cleveland is pretty bleak at this point. Your only options for hearing any kind of new rock music or any of the older slightly obscure songs is either the college stations or the various internet services. Unfortunately I don't see any of this changing anytime soon. While WMMS may have added a few alternative tracks, I don't think they will make any serious push to be the next radio923. In my opinion the mix of classic rock/active rock/talk is perfect for the "man-cave" format they are striving for. From what I understand they do pretty darn good with Rover and The Alan Cox Show. Seems as though music is just kind of a filler for them anyways.

It seems to me like the "new breed" of classic rock station should be one that plays heavy doses of 90s alternative music mixed in with newer artists. The people who grew up on that music are now in their late 30s and early 40s, seemingly a prime group for advertisers. From what I've seen that demo is open minded enough to give good new music a chance as well.
 
The labels are not cranking out rock product like 10, 15 years ago. They know there are little or no stations relying on this product for thier format identity. In the early 2000s Extreme 92.3 playing nu-metal was the last of the mohicans to rely on that type of " current " product.

The labels now focus on developing pop, country, hip hop/R&B acts because these radio formats exist in multiples that sustain the release of music in these genres. Said differently, why release rock product when there is no current radio radio stations (so to speak) which to market this genre?

Rock music stations will live off classic rock from the 70s and whatever you want to call the rock music from the 80s and 90s for decades to come.
This should insure Michael Stanley's DJ career for some time. :D

Other than Howad Stern's decade of dominance of morning drive for the rockers, WNCX was and is one of thee dullest stations ever in the history of this market. Yet that " classic rock " position is one CBS will not relinquish.
 
ClevelandRadioFan said:
Rock music of all types has basically gone internet only. Honestly, that's a good thing.
Click to expand...

Huh? News to me.

If anything, alternative rock's main problem now is that their main target audience - 18-34 - now suffers from persistent high levels of unemployment. Thus, have little buying power for advertisers to make it a remotely profitable one, regardless if they get reasonably decent ratings.

It's one of the unsung reasons why WKRK flipped to The Fan. In spite of lower (for now) ratings, CBS is still assured of more spending power than they ever could have gotten as "radio 92.3."
 
Nathan Obral said:
ClevelandRadioFan said:
Rock music of all types has basically gone internet only. Honestly, that's a good thing.
Click to expand...

If anything, alternative rock's main problem now is that their main target audience - 18-34 - now suffers from persistent high levels of unemployment.
Click to expand...

Nope........18-24 or 18-34 year olds have disposable income regardless of the economic climate.
 
Capulet said:
Nope........18-24 or 18-34 year olds have disposable income regardless of the economic climate.
Click to expand...

Ignoring the point.

Many of the 18-34 demo don't have jobs right now.

Because of this little thing called a prolonged economic recession.

It hasn't ended.

Thus, less disposable income.

And therefore, few if any advertisers are willing to spend money on said formatted stations. Alt-rock stations can't bill anything if their lives depended on it right now.

Rubber City easily could have flipped WNWV to alternative rock - and it was among the final three format possibilities - but opted not to because the advertising demos weren't there. They felt they had a better chance with smooth AC, for better or for worse.
 
Nathan's comments in the last posting are correct. This is something I work with every day, so I'm familiar with the discussion.

In 2011, teen and 18-24 year old men in particular, have unusually high levels of unemployment. That certainly improves as they age into the 25-34-year-old demographic, when they begin to get into the early years of a work career.

The sweet spot for most major ad buys is "women age 25-54", and "adults age 25-54"...with the key age cell being 35 to 44. That's not my opinion (I could care less)....that's the rule of thumb from the advertising community.

I guess what it comes down to is...when you only have 3 or 4 format choices available...you pick the one that has the best chance to succeed and generate revenue.

The two best formats of the 4 or so we've been discussing for months, which format's core listeners has and spends more money? Women 35-54 or 12-24 men? Ahhhhhh...not a difficult choice: far, far, far and away it's women 35-54 in 2011.

It's a business.
 
Tim said:
I guess what it comes down to is...when you only have 3 or 4 format choices available...you pick the one that has the best chance to succeed and generate revenue.

The two best formats of the 4 or so we've been discussing for months, which format's core listeners has and spends more money? Women 35-54 or 12-24 men? Ahhhhhh...not a difficult choice: far, far, far and away it's women 35-54 in 2011.

It's a business.
Click to expand...

I agree it's a business and the new owners knew that old is new again.

IMO Rubber Radio never even considered multiple " format options " as discussed here. They knew all along the Wave was branded as the " elevator music-doctors office-sonic wall paper -all day at work station " that had consistently been one of the top 10 stations in the Cleveland market for decades. They also knew The Wave ( before the AAA fiasco ) was consistently ranked in the Top 5 ( or higher ) in Women for decades.

They have a country and a rocker already. They knew when AAA debuted it was doomed because that's a niche format, no one on the product side had any AAA experience
( consultant, PD, jocks, sales speficially ) and it essentially was the 4th rock station choice in the market. Even Ray Charles could see that. :D

When they bought it they knew they were taking it back to the target audience it once served.
 
Capulet...Nobody spends millions of dollars on a radio station and not do a major audience/formats research project before deciding on what to do with the station. Rest assured, research was done.

Oh...the old 107.3 smooth jazz was not consistently in the top 5 in women in Cleveland. It actually leaned more male than female. I've seen the Cleveland books for years (not just the 12+ that's on many websites).

Wait til the new format debuts and then see how it sounds to all of you. If you love AAA or rock, you might not like it..but this format isn't targeting you. But the tempo might not be as sleepy/doctor's office as you might now think.
 
Tim said:
Capulet...Nobody spends millions of dollars on a radio station and not do a major audience/formats research project before deciding on what to do with the station.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Rubber Radio did some due diligence. I seriously doubt they spent money on an unnecessary research study. They did not have to do a major format search. My guess is they looked more at the stations books ( expenses vs revenue ) for the last 5 years before they made the purchase. Of this I am certain. Format search? Why? No need.
 
Capulet: Nope, they did do a research project. Other stations do this all the time even when they have no intention of changing formats....just trying to keep the pulse of their station (s) and get out ahead of any changes developing in the market.

But, remember...in any format change in just about any market...the research is much more than just about format holes and music testing. It's about revenue potential, market demographics, psychographics, population trends, comparison of similar formats in similar markets,and so forth.

And, every company who buys another company looks at financials going back 5 or 10 years (or longer)...that's typical in any type of business transaction...not just radio and TV stations.
 
Tim said:
Capulet: Nope, they did do a research project.
Click to expand...

Tim,

You seem to have an inside track on the activities of the new owners based on this and prevous posts.

You must work for Rubber Radio if you insist they did format research.
Which company did the study for them?
 
Let's just say, there's a few of us on this board who have, shall we say: strong contacts in the business everywhere.

Hopefully the bits of information we're able to post is of interest to the many who love the radio and TV industry, and not cause problems for ourselves.
 
Tim said:
Let's just say, there's a few of us on this board who have, shall we say: strong contacts in the business everywhere.
Click to expand...

You mean you still know people in radio who haven't been fired? ;D Cool!

Whatever. As I said I'm sure Rubber Radio looked at the financials. No way they paid anyone to tell them blowing up the Wave was stupid. You don't need to hire a research compnay to tell you where the revenue dollars came from.
 
CleveRadioInsider said:
If Bernie Kimble comes back to the WAVE I will be 100% convinced that the radio business is dead.
Click to expand...

CleveRadioInsider,

Why would that surprise you? ;D Don't you read this board?
He was a victim of management medling to the nth degree? ;D

Seriuosly, you're pretty funny! Thanks for the grins!
 
Nothing surprises me in Cleveland radio and TV. I am shocked that Adam the Bull was able to get a job at 92.3 doing sports talk. It is darn near impossible in this town for anybody new to break into the business whether it is from another market or even Akron/Canton working their way up. This area is obsessed with the same 30 names over and over. ;D
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom