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Cleveland VS Philly: Birthplace of Rock 'n Roll

50's & 60's music is the perfect place for this debate. After reading the a post in the "name game" thread, it came to me to cause new controversy, just for fun of course.

I shiver everytime I hear about the "Rock 'n Roll Hall Of Fame" in Cleveland. Why is it there? Everyone knows that Rock music was spread like"cheese on pizza" by Dick Clark from WFIL-TV6 in Philadelphia. Who ever heard a jock say "there's the sound of Cleveland'? As opposed to "there's the Sound Of Philadelphia". The first Rock HIT was "Rock Around The Clock" by the Comets from nearby Chester PA. (Holiday 88 was an obscure R&B record) The first successful FULL-TIME Top 40 station in a major market was WIBG in Philadelphia.

Why does it keep inducting marginal, at best, acts that NEVER deserve to be in what SHOULD be a hallowed place of recognition. they induct too many every year.
 
amfmsw said:
50's & 60's music is the perfect place for this debate. After reading the a post in the "name game" thread, it came to me to cause new controversy, just for fun of course.

I shiver everytime I hear about the "Rock 'n Roll Hall Of Fame" in Cleveland. Why is it there?
There is a lot of debate among music fans over why Cleveland ended up being chosen, and most industry professionals agree that it is because the city offered the best financial package. (In 1983 civic leaders in Cleveland pledged $65 million in public money to fund the construction of the home for the Hall Of Fame). As one music critic noted, "It wasn't Alan Freed. It was $65 million -- Cleveland wanted it here and put up the money."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame

amfmsw said:
Everyone knows that Rock music was spread like"cheese on pizza" by Dick Clark from WFIL-TV6 in Philadelphia. Who ever heard a jock say "there's the sound of Cleveland'? As opposed to "there's the Sound Of Philadelphia". The first Rock HIT was "Rock Around The Clock" by the Comets from nearby Chester PA. (Holiday 88 was an obscure R&B record) The first successful FULL-TIME Top 40 station in a major market was WIBG in Philadelphia.
Several records of this period have been most frequently cited by different authorities as "the first rock’n’roll record". These include:
Wynonie Harris' "Good Rockin' Tonight" (1947); "Rock The Joint" by Jimmy Preston; Rocket 88", Jackie Brenston's 1951 original; Bill Haley's "Rock Around The Clock" (1954); and Elvis Presley's "That's All Right (Mama)" (1954). However, there are many other candidates; the book "What was the first rock'n'roll record" by Jim Dawson and Steve Propes discusses 50 contenders, from Illinois Jacquet's "Blues, Part 2" (1944) to Elvis Presley's "Heartbreak Hotel" (1956), without reaching a definitive conclusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_rock_and_roll_record
BTW: You mentioned "Holiday 88". Were you referring to "Rocket 88"? If so, you are correct in that it was an R&B platter, however - what Alan Freed played on his famous night time radio show was indeed considered R&B by today's historians.

amfmsw said:
Why does it keep inducting marginal, at best, acts that NEVER deserve to be in what SHOULD be a hallowed place of recognition. they induct too many every year.
A nominating committee composed of music historians selects names for the Performers category, which are then voted on by roughly 1000 experts. Performers receiving the highest number of votes greater than 50% of the votes received are selected for induction; each year, about five to seven nominees make the cut. The main criticism is that the nomination process is controlled by a few individuals, reflecting their tastes rather than the views of the rock world as a whole. A former member of the nominations board once said: “…I saw how certain pioneering artists of the 50s and early 60s were shunned because there needed to be more name power on the list, resulting in 70s superstars getting in before the people who made it possible for them.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame

I have used one resouce (Wikipedia) for these responses, although many are available. Initially I thought of composing my own viewpoints, but they would have been too long and complicated and perhaps boring. This subject is a broad one with many answers - which then involve more questions, and many contradictions. Rather than try to encompass one genre, i.e., Rock and Roll, one needs to break it up into the many sub-genres and their various regional influences. If I may, I’ll recommend the following reading, which most Rock/Roll enthusiasts should find interesting:
Rhythm & Blues (New Orleans)”, by Broven
Good Rockin’ Tonight” (Sun Records and the Birth of Rock ‘n’ Roll), written by Colin Escott with Martin Hawkins
 
We all know that politics won out in this, and Cleveland was selected. It shouldn't have made the top 5. Philly, Memphis, Pittsburgh, and several others were better choices. Now Memphis is getting a off shoot of the original hall of fame.
 
Thanks for the correction. Rocket 88. I was thinking "Oldsmobile", just the model was off! But as far as popularity, "Haley's Clock" was the groundbreaking HIT record.

In response to WTAE, I'd rather see an Iron City HOF. What talent came from the area: The Skyliners, Del Vikings, Edsels, Como, Vinton, Vogues, Jaggerz and so many more.
 
1250WTAE said:
We all know that politics won out in this, and Cleveland was selected. It shouldn't have made the top 5. Philly, Memphis, Pittsburgh, and several others were better choices.
I agree completely.
 
amfmsw said:
Thanks for the correction. Rocket 88. I was thinking "Oldsmobile", just the model was off!
No problem, we all get a brain freeze more often than we would care to admit.
amfmsw said:
But as far as popularity, "Haley's Clock" was the groundbreaking HIT record.
This is true - I, with my friends, used to go up to the Greyhound Bus Station to play the jukebox - and this tune was our most played. (Damn, I think I just gave away my age.)
 
In response to WTAE, I'd rather see an Iron City HOF. What talent came from the area: The Skyliners, Del Vikings, Edsels, Como, Vinton, Vogues, Jaggerz and so many more.

Add The Marcels, Lou Christie, Donnie Iris, and Pittsburgh takes claim to Tommy James, where the song "Hanky Panky" broke loose, and then hit nationally.
 
amfmsw said:
The first Rock HIT was "Rock Around The Clock" by the Comets from nearby Chester PA. (Holiday 88 was an obscure R&B record) The first successful FULL-TIME Top 40 station in a major market was WIBG in Philadelphia.

Why does it keep inducting marginal, at best, acts that NEVER deserve to be in what SHOULD be a hallowed place of recognition. they induct too many every year.

I don't believe that we we should be talking "hits" or "full time Top 40" when talking about the birth of R&R. That's like giving American Airlines credit for the invention of flight. Rock & Roll would have never been born if DJs on small independent stations hadn't stuck their necks out and played the stuff. And Alan Freed generally gets the credit for being the first to do that.
 
And Alan Freed was in Cleveland when he said those words "rock n roll" and that's another reason why the RRHOF is located there.

Freed was born in Windber, PA, and worked in radio in New Castle. Both pretty close to Pittsburgh!
 
1250WTAE said:
And Alan Freed was in Cleveland when he said those words "rock n roll" and that's another reason why the RRHOF is located there.

Yup. I guess most readers of this board are too young to remember that. There's a whole generation of people out there who think the Beatles invented Rock & Roll.
 
TheFonz said:
I don't believe that we we should be talking "hits" or "full time Top 40" when talking about the birth of R&R.
Trivia: The Top 40 Format was the innovation of WHB in Kansas City.
TheFonz said:
Rock & Roll would have never been born if DJs on small independent stations hadn't stuck their necks out and played the stuff. And Alan Freed generally gets the credit for being the first to do that.
Alan Freed didn’t cause what happened, but he was in the right place at the right time. DJs in the cities played rhythm and blues and they played what their audiences wanted to hear – blacks listened to music by blacks and whites listened to music by whites. Teenagers sought out music that felt good to them, and especially music that their parents disliked, the old rebellion thing. Freed began playing black R & B music, howling on live mike like a “Moondog”, banging telephone books to the time of the music, and was an immediate hit with the white teens, along with the music he played. Freed was more charismatic on air than the other white DJs and could attract more of the white teen audience than the black DJs. Once in the limelight, he found a way to remain there, with his radio show and live concerts. His first concert/dance called “Moon Dog’s Coronation Ball” (March 21, 1952) in Cleveland sold out 10,000 seats but roughly twice that number got in. Fire and Police officials called off the concert half way through, referring to it as a “riot”. The publicity worked, making Freed into a cult figure, and he followed the first “fiasco” with sold-out concerts in Akron (July 1952), Cleveland (July 1953) and Newark (May 1954).

Unfortunately, Freed’s success came to an end in 1959, when the practice of payola came under the scrutiny of the Harris Commission. Although payola was not against the law, it was considered unethical enough to cause new standards to be adopted by the industry. Freed, along with notable other DJs such as Tommy “Dr. Jive” Smalls and Peter Tripp were casualities. Dick Clark cooperated with the commission and was able to weather the storm. Alan Freed remains a legacy of the 50s and Rock & Roll music.
 
TheFonz said:
1250WTAE said:
And Alan Freed was in Cleveland when he said those words "rock n roll" and that's another reason why the RRHOF is located there.

Yup. I guess most readers of this board are too young to remember that. There's a whole generation of people out there who think the Beatles invented Rock & Roll.


The Beatles along with Dylan and the Byrds saved us from all that doo wop baloney!


Cleveland or the state of Ohio is the home of the Pretenders, Pere Ubu, and last but certainly not least, Guided By Voices. Captain Robert Pollard!
 
drpickle said:
The Beatles along with Dylan and the Byrds saved us from all that doo wop baloney!


And Disco saved us from THAT drug-infested, social protest music era. So goes the world of popular music.
 
correction: disco along with Punk saved us from bloated prog rock like Gentle Giant!
 
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