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Closest "Full" Markets To Each Other

What are the two closest "Full" TV markets to each other?

By "Full" I mean having all major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW and PBS) to each other. I also mean on sepearte TV stations. Not having a newtork on a subchannel or moving their schedule to a different time.

I am thinking it probably is Baltimore and DC or Boston and Providence. Are there any other closer ones?
 
Cleveland and Dayton are missing CW/My respectively, but are probably the closest along with DC/Baltimore.

- Trip
 
Mark said:
What are the two closest "Full" TV markets to each other?

By "Full" I mean having all major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW and PBS) to each other. I also mean on sepearte TV stations. Not having a newtork on a subchannel or moving their schedule to a different time.

I am thinking it probably is Baltimore and DC or Boston and Providence. Are there any other closer ones?

Hartford & Springfield (if you include their CBS LPTV and Fox subchannel), at 30 miles.

If you only consider full-power standalone network affilates, maybe Louisville-Lexington would be #3 after Baltimore-DC (35 miles) and Boston-Providence (50 miles).
 
tripinva said:
Cleveland and Dayton are missing CW/My respectively...

Don't you mean Cincinnati and Dayton? Also, as mentioned before, both cities have their own CW / My channels -- in Cincy, CW is on a sub of WKRC, while My is on WSTR; in Dayton, CW is on WBDT, with My on a sub of WRGY (though Wikipedia mentions that WSTR has a LPTV repeater in Dayton).
 
Try three markets in North Carolina within a 150 mile range up I-85. The Triangle (Raleigh/Durham), the Triad (Greensboro/Winston-Salem), and Charlotte, all of which with ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, CW, and MyNet stations. The markets are only 50 miles from each other.
 
azumanga said:
tripinva said:
Cleveland and Dayton are missing CW/My respectively...

Don't you mean Cincinnati and Dayton? Also, as mentioned before, both cities have their own CW / My channels -- in Cincy, CW is on a sub of WKRC, while My is on WSTR; in Dayton, CW is on WBDT, with My on a sub of WRGY (though Wikipedia mentions that WSTR has a LPTV repeater in Dayton).

I was blinking at that post of Trip's. :D

But the OP said all networks, and included CW/MyNet, without subchannels. That might be a more difficult level to reach, but Cincy/Dayton would fit otherwise.

Cleveland and Youngstown are pretty close, but only the original "Big 3" and PBS are standalone OTA stations in Y-Town. Fox is on an LPTV duo and now a subchannel of the CBS affiliate, CW is on a subchannel of the NBC affiliate, and MyNet is on a subchannel of the ABC affiliate.

Which, is operated in an LMA by the CBS affiliate. :D
 
D'oh! That's what I get for writing a post as I attempt to run out the door!

- Trip
 
Mark said:
What are the two closest "Full" TV markets to each other?

By "Full" I mean having all major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW and PBS) to each other. I also mean on sepearte TV stations. Not having a newtork on a subchannel or moving their schedule to a different time.

I am thinking it probably is Baltimore and DC or Boston and Providence. Are there any other closer ones?

If you would had counted ION as a "Major" network that leaves out Baltimore but the others, yeah I think Baltimore & DC could be the winner.

What about....

San Diego-Los Angeles ?
Buffalo-Rochester ?
Richmond-Hampton Roads ?

I was going to say...
Indianapolis-Fort Wayne and Denver-Colorado Springs but I think FW and the "Springs" some of their networks are taking the subchannel route.
 
The Colorado Springs/Pueblo market has had all it's own 'big 5' network affiliates for decades now. CW and My are more recent additions via subchannel. But KRDO-13 (ABC), KKTV-11 (CBS), KOAA-5/30 (NBC), KXRM-21 (Fox) and KTSC-8 (PBS) have served this market for decades. CW-57 is a sub of KXRM and I am not sure who's carrying "My" in The Springs now. Ironically, KTSC and KRMA Denver are now consolidated under the "Rocky Mountain PBS" brand now and show pretty much the same thing. That was formerly not the case.

Anyhow, these markets (Denver and COS) are about 60 miles apart and separated by the Palmer Divide and are thus not nearly as closely spaced as the likes of Washington/Baltimore, Hartford/Springfield, Boston/Providence or Dayton/Cincinnati. Los Angeles and San Diego are a good 90 miles apart and are thus no closer together than New York and Philly. Toledo and Detroit are also closer together.
 
mleach said:
What about....

San Diego-Los Angeles ?
Buffalo-Rochester ?
Richmond-Hampton Roads ?

I was going to say...
Indianapolis-Fort Wayne and Denver-Colorado Springs but I think FW and the "Springs" some of their networks are taking the subchannel route.

FW has a full complement of the big 4; CW and My are on subchannels. But if you want to go that route, Rochester has CW on a subchannel and My on an LPTV.

In any event, it's 100+ miles from Fort Wayne to Indy, and 70 or so, downtown-to-downtown, between Buffalo and Rochester.

DC-Baltimore is much closer, so much so that when I was in the area last summer, I had no trouble seeing most of the Baltimore DTVs on a set-top indoor antenna within the District, and most of the DC DTVs on the same antenna from a hotel room on the northeastern fringe of Baltimore.
 
How about San Francisco and Stockton/Sacramento, Walnut Grove the Home to all Stockton/ Sacramento transmitters with All networks on main channels NBC 3, PBS 6, ABC 10, CBS 13, CW 31, FOX 40, MY 58 is roughly 60 miles to the Mt. Sutro super tower in SF with FOX 2, CBS 5, ABC 7, PBS 9, NBC 11, CW 44,and MY 4.
 
Although Peoria's CW affiliate is on a subchannel of WHOI (19.2-- CW 100+), you could add the Quad Cities (Davenport, IA/Rock Island-Moline, IL) and Peoria/Bloomington to this list. It's roughly about 80 miles on Interstate 74 between the outskirts of Moline and the city limits of Peoria (but probably only about 60 miles "as the crow files" as I-74 is southbound until Galesburg, then curves east-southeast toward Peoria afterwards). In fact, parts of northwestern Peoria County even can receive a Grade A signal from some of the Quad Cities' stations (particularly WQAD-8, both digital and analog), while the Grade B signals for practically all of the QC full-power stations (TV and radio) even reaches Peoria city proper (including the soon-to-be former analog signals of WHBF-4 and KWQC-6, whose analog towers are in Bettendorf, IA), particularly those with sticks near Orion, IL.

Despite Peoria being an all-UHF market while the Quad Cities has had their "Big 3" on all-VHF (4, 6, 8), could a case had been made, say, 50 years ago (before officially becoming the Peoria/Bloomington market with the 1982 sign on of WYZZ-43), to have combined Peoria and Quad Cities into a single market a la Springfield/Decatur/Champaign, IL (particularly considering the similar distance between Springfield and Champaign as opposed to the Quad Cities and Peoria)? This would have been particularly true before the Peoria UHF stations boosted their power and coverage area during the '60s, and when viewers even in parts of rural Peoria County who purchased their first TVs when the first QC stations, WOC-6 (now KWQC and originally channel 5) and WHBF-4 signed on in 1949 and 1950, respectively, might have still relied on watching the QC stations rather than shelling out money for a UHF antenna/converter (you could still see occasional evidence of sets of active or long-defunct home outdoor antennas pointed southeast toward the Peoria stations, and northwest toward the Quad Cities, in parts of rural Peoria County--and I'm sure valiant efforts to try to bring in Chicago stations back in the early TV days).

And also something I've wondered about--I wonder if the Peoria stations in the past have ever raised vehement objections to some of the QC stations placing their transmitters at the Orion transmitter farm (particularly WQAD-8 and the pre-1983 transmitter for WHBF-4, as well as KLJB-18 and WQPT-24, and now KWQC-DT and, YES, even Iowa Public Television station KQIN-DT, all with their towers in Orion and all can bring at least a Grade B signal into the city limits of Peoria).
 
mleach said:
Mark said:
What are the two closest "Full" TV markets to each other?

By "Full" I mean having all major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW and PBS) to each other. I also mean on sepearte TV stations. Not having a newtork on a subchannel or moving their schedule to a different time.

I am thinking it probably is Baltimore and DC or Boston and Providence. Are there any other closer ones?

If you would had counted ION as a "Major" network that leaves out Baltimore but the others, yeah I think Baltimore & DC could be the winner.

What about....

San Diego-Los Angeles ?
I vote for San Diego/LA, OC as well. Heck the only thing separating us is Camp Pendleton and its a lot less than 30 miles from the south border of Orange County to the start of San Diego County.
 
philosofy said:
I vote for San Diego/LA, OC as well. Heck the only thing separating us is Camp Pendleton and its a lot less than 30 miles from the south border of Orange County to the start of San Diego County.

But it's a good 90 miles from downtown SD to downtown LA, and even more than that from the SD transmitter sites to Mount Wilson.

Compare that to Baltimore and Washington, where it's less than 40 miles from the DC transmitter sites to TV Hill in Baltimore, or to Hartford and Springfield, where it's barely 30 miles from the WFSB tower in Avon CT (Hartford market) to the WWLP tower in Agawam (Springfield market).

And while LA and SD have a definite gap between the two markets (in the form of Camp Pendleton), the DC/Baltimore and Hartford/Springfield situations have no gap at all...rather, lots of overlap between the two.
 
The Chicago-South Bend-Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek areas are very close to each other, mainly helped by the fact that Lake Michigan is just a huge conductor spreading station signals farther than they usually would be. Grand Rapids is farther up from Chicago, but if the wind and weather is just right, their stations are viewable across the lake.
 
mrschimpf said:
Grand Rapids is farther up from Chicago, but if the wind and weather is just right, their stations are viewable across the lake.

As would be Milwaukee as well -- in fact, WOOD-TV had to set up a LPTV repeater in Muskegon, due to interference from the digital signal of WMVS, which broadcasts on channel 8, the same as WOOD's analog signal.
 
mleach said:
Mark said:
What are the two closest "Full" TV markets to each other?

By "Full" I mean having all major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW and PBS) to each other. I also mean on sepearte TV stations. Not having a newtork on a subchannel or moving their schedule to a different time.

I am thinking it probably is Baltimore and DC or Boston and Providence. Are there any other closer ones?

If you would had counted ION as a "Major" network that leaves out Baltimore but the others, yeah I think Baltimore & DC could be the winner.

What about....

San Diego-Los Angeles ?
Buffalo-Rochester ?
Richmond-Hampton Roads ?

I was going to say...
Indianapolis-Fort Wayne and Denver-Colorado Springs but I think FW and the "Springs" some of their networks are taking the subchannel route.

I would go with South Bend, IN - Chicago before I would say Indianapolis-Fort Wayne.
 
OK..exactly why is it that Baltimore and Washington are two totally seperate markets?

Not only one can pick up each others TV there but radio too. Even the low powered stations. And when the old Washington Star went out of business in 1981, the BALTIMORE SUN actually advertised on TV is DC saying "...you may have lost a "Star" but you have gained a "SUN".

On top of of that all of the old DC retail chains like Giant Food Stores and the now defunct department store chains like The Hecht Company and "Woodies", they sure did a lot of business in Baltimore.

For many years the reason and the only reason why I have heard that Baltimore and DC aren't "one market" was that DC is "goverment" while Baltimore was "blue collar".

Sorry but I don't buy it.

If there are any two markets who should had become "one" its Washington DC and Baltimore.
 
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