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CNN Headline News from 1986, with tech question


At 6:40 timestamp on this YouTube, which is from an unknown market that partially includes part of ON, Canada, there is almost a very quick telephone dialing kind of sound. 4 "digits" in less than 1/2 sec. It was something I'd encounter a lot as a tween in the mid-80's. Just curious if anybody knows what this is?

(Sorry if this is the wrong subforum)
 
I believe those DTMF tones were used to trigger insertion of local spots at the cable headend (or local broadcast affiliate, as in this case). The American Cancer Society and Fund for Animals PSAs look like filler for a 60-second local avail. Had the Buffalo station sold that time, the tones would have cued the local VTR to play the spots.
 
I think I knew what this was. I always found it fascinating. It was (just saw the answer from Brian Lowe as I was writing this) the tones for going to and coming back from local spots - they ran about 8-10 seconds before the flip point, which was about the amount of time it would take for a VTR to turn on, wind up to speed and start the video. That's why they played during or just prior to an 8-10 second ID or the end of a commercial.

Around that same time (the early years of cable, although there are still some networks that do this) I worked around radio stations that could cue local spots by the network running a subaudible tone that didn't stand out like DTMF. I wonder why TV networks didn't adopt that same technology.
 
I believe those DTMF tones were used to trigger insertion of local spots at the cable headend (or local broadcast affiliate, as in this case). The American Cancer Society and Fund for Animals PSAs look like filler for a 60-second local avail. Had the Buffalo station sold that time, the tones would have cued the local VTR to play the spots.
That is correct. The DTMF tones were used on numerous cable networks in the 1980s to trigger local spots. MTV was the first network I specifically recall using this system, though the main CNN network also used it at the time.

CNN Headline News was carried by many OTA stations as time filler, as its 30 minute program wheel fit into their schedules.
 
Around that same time (the early years of cable, although there are still some networks that do this) I worked around radio stations that could cue local spots by the network running a subaudible tone that didn't stand out like DTMF. I wonder why TV networks didn't adopt that same technology.
Those “subaudible” tones on the radio (25 Hz was common) would often come through on better speaker systems as a sort of rattle, so not always “silent”.

Having multiple tones trigger a break playout was probably safer than a single low tone, as otherwise there might be an unintentional “false trigger” by low frequency effects in program audio.
 
In the history of Radio & TV we have seen all sorts of tones & schemes used for cue purposes, like the Mutual BeDos, what the heck did they do? We could use a comprehensive post on cue tones, if not one already? I miss Headline News & their DTMF tones! Why did only certain TV channels use those tones. The tone post could include some wild stories about optical tones too, like when someone took a picture!
 
In the history of Radio & TV we have seen all sorts of tones & schemes used for cue purposes, like the Mutual BeDos, what the heck did they do? We could use a comprehensive post on cue tones, if not one already? I miss Headline News & their DTMF tones! Why did only certain TV channels use those tones. The tone post could include some wild stories about optical tones too, like when someone took a picture!
Please start one!
 
Please start one!
I was thinking about this when David posted those Drum like reproducers which were leased to the Bell System & other companies. I went on to reading more about the broadcast cart, thought of the old Radio Automation systems, and even how Motion Pictures used that blinking black dot or splotch to cue and alert the projectionists. The history of the cue & the cue tone is way above my sum of knowledge

Yesterday I mentioned optical & then I remember metal was also used in the history of cues too!
 
In the history of Radio & TV we have seen all sorts of tones & schemes used for cue purposes, like the Mutual BeDos, what the heck did they do? We could use a comprehensive post on cue tones, if not one already? I miss Headline News & their DTMF tones! Why did only certain TV channels use those tones. The tone post could include some wild stories about optical tones too, like when someone took a picture!
What some don't know or have forgotten is that cart machines often (depending on the brand) had up to three tones. One was used to stop the cart after playing at the start of the audio, ready for the next play. All had that.

Another tone was used to fast forward the tape to the start point. And another could be used to cause a lamp or bulb to flash; I used those to warn the jock that the song was 15 seconds till the end and we'd flash 3 or 4 times for that. I had the flash tied into a ceiling lamp in the studio and another in the bathrooms.
 
Yesterday I mentioned optical & then I remember metal was also used in the history of cues too!
The most fun was when the metallic tape fell off, making the next even be "silence".
 
I worked at one station in the later 80s that was completely on cart. Was all ITC (3M) machines and Fidelipak carts. They were essentailly 3 track (left, right and cue.) The record tone was 1kHz and was there to cue up the cart for the next play. When you hit "record" it would put this tone on the cue track. The secondary was (I think) 150Hz and in our usage was what triggered the next event/next cart. If you were slick you could put together some decent segues because as long as the tone was on the triggering tape that audio would still play, while the next cart started. Once you released the secondary cue when recording that audio it would mute that deck. We didn't have a fast-forwarding capability in our decks, so it was important to use 70 second carts for :60 spots, 40s for :30 second spots, 3:40 carts for 3:30 songs and so forth. The tertiary (8kHz?) was used like David did, to wake up the jock 20 seconds before the song ended. Flashed lights in the air studio, bathroom, production studio and smoking deck.

You could also put logging info on the cue track, which we did. That would log every event as it went on air. Not sure what fequency was used there.

In theory you wouldn't hear any of these tones at all. But if a head got out of alignment you could sometimes via crosstalk. David would be proud- in the air studio we had two 3-stacks and a spare, along with detailed instructions on how to hot swap them.

You could daisy-chain 6 carts to run back to back. Just a little toggle switch by each cart inserion location. Toggle to the right and the next cart would play when the deck heard your secondary tone. Used this mostly for stop sets. (Though I am sure the overnight guys probalby ran 6 songs back to back and did whatever night jocks otherwise do.)

SENSING TAPE- Every cart has a splice, and you didn't want your song/spot recording over the splice. The metal tape that held the splice together also was tied to a machine in the production studio that sensed the splice and cued up the cart so it would be ready to be recorded onto. If the splice broke you shouldn't get dead air unless someone was lazy and didn't splice sense before reording a spot.

And for gawd's sake do NOT put your wallet next to the deguasser!
 
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That is correct. The DTMF tones were used on numerous cable networks in the 1980s to trigger local spots. MTV was the first network I specifically recall using this system, though the main CNN network also used it at the time. CNN Headline News was carried by many OTA stations as time filler, as its 30 minute program wheel fit into their schedules.
Those 1980s DTMF cue tones were never actually meant to be audible to the public, ever. They were only heard on some cable channels, on some cable systems, due to human error.

Cable network feeds on C-band satellite transponders back then employed analog subcarriers for sound. The frequencies for the subcarriers, and the total number of them, was arbitrary from one transponder to the next. 6.2 MHz for left, 6.8 MHz for right, and 5.8 MHz for mono was common, but not always the case. Cable TV networks that offered local ad insertion avails to cable systems would typically transmit a duplicate copy of their normal audio, one containing their DTMF cue tones, on a dedicated audio subcarrier frequency meant only to drive cable company VTR banks. For example, Nickelodeon might have 5.8 MHz mono plus 5.2 MHz mono with cue tones. And MTV might have 6.2 left, 6.8 right, 5.2 mono, and 5.8 mono with tones. Well, cable head end technicians would always receive technical literature telling them which subcarriers to modulate onto the coax for their subscribers, and which to route to their VTR banks for cue detection. But they didn't always read those faxes carefully. If your cable company head end tech setup the MTV IRD by blindly dialing in 5.8 for mono out of habit, but didn't notice his fax sheet from MTV indicating "public" mono on 5.2 MHz (with 5.8 MHz actually being its cue-toned mono), then everyone in your city would constantly be pestered by those tones. But only on MTV, and not on any of the other channels he tuned his head end's IRDs correctly for. Meanwhile, the next city over's cable system might have their IRD tuned for MTV correctly, sparing viewers from hearing anything amiss. But then they might have screwed up A&E...

The phenomenon of hearing DTMF cue tones slowly began to desist in the second half of the '80s, when the cable networks began adopting VideoCipher II scrambling for their C-band feeds. VCII carried the audio digitally and only supported two channels (left and right). At that point, cues became separate connectors on the backs of satellite IRDs that lazy or clumsy technicians could not easily mistake for subscriber audio outputs.

You can see an example of the VCII's digital audio in this screen capture. VCII basically turned the horizontal blanking interval into one very tall QR code.
 
I think that Antenna TV still sends out DTMF tones- at least they did a few years ago when I was cleaning up some things at KCPQ. A previous engineer set up the automation (affiliates get one break every half hour at about the :15 and :45 mark) to cue off of the DTMF or SCTE cue (they send out both, I think it was off the SCTE cue) but the Antenna TV cues have a :02 pre-roll and our automation had a :00 pre-roll. This led to the spots downcutting the segments and :02 of the last net commercial in the break airing.
That looked terrible and like nobody cared so I set about trying to delay the SCTE cue but couldn't get that done. I then turned to the DTMF tones (now sub audible to the TV viewer as they are on a separate audio PID) and used a Broadcast Tools DTD-16 to delay the cue trigger. Our local ad insertions looked great again and you never knew that they were locally inserted ads because the local insertion was so seamless. Adding a few frames of black to the spots that aired often on Antenna TV helped keep the flashes of the covered ads to a minimum. This system was in use for over two years until they stopped doing local inserts in Antenna TV.
So DTMF is still in use and useful- it's much easier to delay an analog signal than a digital one such as a SCTE trigger. The DTD-16 devices were sitting around unused but even if we had to purchase some they are just a few hundred dollars making it a cost effective way to make the local insertions look good.
 
I think that Antenna TV still sends out DTMF tones- at least they did a few years ago when I was cleaning up some things at KCPQ.
KFLA channel 8 in Los Angeles, while it was carrying NewsNet until just recently, also had a PID misconfiguration like that. I could hear NewsNet's DTMF tones going out on the air every second or third commercial break. Considering how hilariously "retro cable news" that channel looked and sounded, I thought it was a hilariously apt mistake.
 
KFLA channel 8 in Los Angeles, while it was carrying NewsNet until just recently, also had a PID misconfiguration like that. I could hear NewsNet's DTMF tones going out on the air every second or third commercial break. Considering how hilariously "retro cable news" that channel looked and sounded, I thought it was a hilariously apt mistake.
I think that was just NewsNet, because I had their actual app for Roku and the DTMF tones would go out over the main feed like every other break.
 
Those “subaudible” tones on the radio (25 Hz was common) would often come through on better speaker systems as a sort of rattle, so not always “silent”.
By the way, those subaudible tones are still alive and well in radio. On my Google News feed ("Hey Google -- play the news") I have ABC's top of the hour network newscast as my first story source. Sometimes it runs about 5 or 6 minutes later in the day. The last story is usually followed by an ad spot, then (it is especially noticeable in the car) the rumble of the 25 Hz tone. I assume that is the call tone that ABC uses to signal to affiliates that it is the end of the newscast.
 
That is correct. The DTMF tones were used on numerous cable networks in the 1980s to trigger local spots. MTV was the first network I specifically recall using this system, though the main CNN network also used it at the time.
I first heard it on the Satellite Program Network, which seemed to make quite liberal use of it.

Ah, for the days of Video Concert Hall !

CNN Headline News was carried by many OTA stations as time filler, as its 30 minute program wheel fit into their schedules.
It often appeared overnights as well.
 
By the way, those subaudible tones are still alive and well in radio. On my Google News feed ("Hey Google -- play the news") I have ABC's top of the hour network newscast as my first story source. Sometimes it runs about 5 or 6 minutes later in the day. The last story is usually followed by an ad spot, then (it is especially noticeable in the car) the rumble of the 25 Hz tone. I assume that is the call tone that ABC uses to signal to affiliates that it is the end of the newscast.
During the brief time in 2022 that VCY programmed 92.7 in the San Francisco Bay Area, you could hear the 25 Hz tones, apparently used to trigger the TOH IDs.
 
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