coalition had to figure out how to force the digital switch.

[pocket-radio]

I found this link and started reading. It’s dated back to 02, but argues a clear point why HD radio’s haven’t been selling and addresses the issues surrounding jamming of competing weaker analog signals. What Savage has been saying.. Uh I get it..

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2002/03/12/1183311.php

The National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) is pressuring the Federal Communication Commission (FCC) to force acceptance of new version of Digital Audio Broadcasting, a kind of "Fax For Audio" on to the existing AM and FM broadcast bands. To accomplish this, the NAB plans to double the amount of space on the dial that a station uses, thus jamming the signals of weaker stations next to them on the dial.

[EDIT]

[EDIT-Citation exceeds amount of permissible content under Fair Use standards and has been truncated as a result.]

 

[4dude]

Sounds like the FCC is being forced into this garbage?

 

[clouseau]

I found this link and started reading. It’s dated back to 02, but argues a clear point why HD radio’s haven’t been selling and addresses the issues surrounding jamming of competing weaker analog signals. What Savage has been saying.. Uh I get it..

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2002/03/12/1183311.php

The National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) is pressuring the Federal Communication Commission (FCC) to force acceptance of new version of Digital Audio Broadcasting, a kind of "Fax For Audio" on to the existing AM and FM broadcast bands. To accomplish this, the NAB plans to double the amount of space on the dial that a station uses, thus jamming the signals of weaker stations next to them on the dial.

Pocket,

Seriously, is this the best you have to offer? This is a six year old piece citing http://www.DigitalDisaster.Org . This is an aticle about whether we should ADAPT the system. We did that a long time ago. The hysteria that is Digitaldisaster.org should be experienced by all. Please, Friend or foe, GO THERE. If ever there was a textbook example of I-BLOCK, Jamming, Destructive baseless hyperbole, this is the poster child. If we believed Digital disaster, all these second adjacent stations HAVE ALREADY BEEN DESTROYED!. Like the system or not, this site is just utter nonesense. I've worked together with CHristopher Maxwell on LPFM in the past and he is a good guy. But he just missed this one BIG TIME. I suspect he might agree with that, but I will not try to speak for him here.

But at least the article dois give you a way to respond. Be sure and respond quickly.

Broadcast Industry's OWN STUDIES prove that Independent Community and College Radio signals are about to be jammed. Deadline for public comments is March 21st.

That's 2002 BTW.

Be sure and not miss the deadline...

Grassroots defenders of independent radio have found proof that a new airwaves regulatory plan will jam and eventually destroy the signals of small community, religious, and college radio stations.

Unfortunately for their point of view, they were completely wrong. It just didn't happen. And again, the protected contour of the American Family station gets "ALMOST HALFWAY" to the complaining area. I am impressed to see the grassroots folks standing up for American Family radio, though. Hard to believe they were oat desperate for an example they had to use them.

It's Old, It's Tired and it just invalid. At least find a newer article that you can link to with newer nonesense.

This idea that FMHD is a big problem is just WRONG. If it caused a problem at it's current power levels they wouldn't be looking to raise it. (OK maybe they would, but...)

Of course that's just my opinion, maybe HD radio WILL jam these stations off the air when it starts. But I'll bet it doesn't.

BTW, wanna bet on some ESPN Classic games this weekend?

Clouseau

 

[TheBigA]

I found this link and started reading.

Oh please. When did you find this link? Certainly not recently, since you've been posting it on every web site you can find for at least a year, and have used it as proof of some kind of conspiracy.

This is an old story, written by a group of admitted anarchists whose main purpose is to incite anti-media groups. The story seems to quote official reports, but they don't exist.

There is no conspiracy against community, religious, and college radio, because they're all located in the non-commercial part of the dial. No commercial radio operator has any reason to covet or jam those frequencies. If ANY organization has an issue with these stations, it's NPR, not the NAB. It does harm to the cause of serious and educated engineers and broadcasters to associate with crap like this.

 

[KB1OKL]

Headline!!!!!

Just for the record: The original Pocketradio was spelled without a hyphen and has been banned from here for a long time, perhaps this fact should be put at the top of the HD header, it should be obvious from the differing styles of their posts, I like them both and both have (and had) good things to contribute, but the fact is the facts Jack.
I suggest people here get their facts straight before they go into attack mode.

Besides the point of this was to show that NAB has been trying to push this junk now for a long time, it isn't a new thing, NAB is more guilty than previously thought of purveying a junk technology which has bombed big time.

 

[clouseau]

Headline!!!!!

Just for the record: The original Pocketradio was spelled without a hyphen and has been banned from here for a long time, perhaps this fact should be put at the top of the HD header, it should be obvious from the differing styles of their posts, I like them both and both have (and had) good things to contribute, but the fact is the facts Jack.
I suggest people here get their facts straight before they go into attack mode.

C'mon, KB. Pointing out who wrote this story or where it's posted doesn't really equate to "Attack Mode". As for identities, no one really knows who is behind a generic screen name. Therefore you (or most of us) do not know who has posted what and where. Assuming they are two different people, there's no way you could know whether the individual did what was said or not. You just don't know. If you were to find that you and I had traded emails in the last year or so, you might have a different perspective. No one knows who's behind a screen name.

Besides the point of this was to show that NAB has been trying to push this junk now for a long time, it isn't a new thing, NAB is more guilty than previously thought of purveying a junk technology which has bombed big time.

What in the world are you alledging or talking about? That the NAB promoted IBOC in 2002? WOW, what a discovery. What's next, the realization that the sun has been rising and setting since before either of us were born? ooooooooh, amazing. It's public record and widely known that the NAB has been involved in the development of the existing system since long before there WAS Ibiquity. Since long before there was a prototype. Since back in the days of giving up the "Digital band" for DARS instead of digital terrestrial radio. (IIRC) This has been more than a decade long process. This isn't exactly Drudge or TMZ type news.

It seems to me that trying to change the subject is a little disingenuous. The fact remains, the article is an absolutely, fabricated piece of garbage from a group that has already predicted the end of the world at a certain time. And that time passed. THEY WE'RE WRONG.
Are there issues with the HD system? Yes, especially on AM. Is it an FM DigitalDisaster like predicted on the website? I'll ask you. Has the vast corporate conspiracy jammed all the little stations off the dial where you live? Surprisingly enough, I haven't seen any of that in my travels. Maybe the interference disaster only affects "Blue states"

Oh Well...

Clouseau

 

[Savage]

It sure as H-E-double-hockey sticks is affecting THIS "Bluer-Than-Blue" state. (Credit" (c) 1978 Michael Johnson. Think it was Big Tree Records.)

I don't believe for a minute that there was a "vast corporate conspiracy to jam all the little stations off the air." The record indicates that there was a kind self-defeating arrogance, actually. The big USADR players (later iBiquity) were warned: there is going to be an adjacent-channel skywave interference problem. They gritted their teeth and agreed among themselves to accept it, because they had deluded themselves into believing "radio can't survive unless it goes digital." When the inevitable question was asked, what about non-Alliance and smaller market stations and the harm to them? They just shrugged and said, in effect, "screw 'em." Don't believe that? Look at what's happened. There is utterly NO interest in or effort to mitigate harmful interference to other stations; it's part of the "interference? What interference?" rationalization. That's why 70-year old rules applicable to interference protection for analog AM broadcasting were conveniently grafted onto digital, which is completely invalid from an engineering standpoint. They all knew this. It was all part of the "oh well, the 'herd needs thinning anyway' mentality."

Vast conspiracy? No. Vast arrogance, dismissal of other operators' interests and myopic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stupidity? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And they're to dumb to admit they're hurting themselves and each other more than they're hurting us little guys.

 

[pocket-radio]

Some corporate conspiracy might be way over the top.

So I’m left to believe, its like the radio bus is driving down the road with no driver, and everybody in the back is screaming directions for the wandering little bus.

It’s difficult to reconcile and explain why the NAB, broadcasters and FCC would approve of and mandate a system, that causes MORE NOISE, not less on the AM band. After all, I’ve been taught to believe, listeners reject AM radio in part because of the static, clicks, pops, and noise. It makes no logical sense. Then again when did logic ever enter into this..

 

[KB1OKL]

Headline!!!!!

Just for the record: The original Pocketradio was spelled without a hyphen and has been banned from here for a long time, perhaps this fact should be put at the top of the HD header, it should be obvious from the differing styles of their posts, I like them both and both have (and had) good things to contribute, but the fact is the facts Jack.
I suggest people here get their facts straight before they go into attack mode.

C'mon, KB. Pointing out who wrote this story or where it's posted doesn't really equate to "Attack Mode". As for identities, no one really knows who is behind a generic screen name. Therefore you (or most of us) do not know who has posted what and where. Assuming they are two different people, there's no way you could know whether the individual did what was said or not. You just don't know. If you were to find that you and I had traded emails in the last year or so, you might have a different perspective. No one knows who's behind a screen name.


Clouseau

You are right Inspector about screen names, some of us have them and some of us don't and it is impossible to know who is behind them, I am easily traceable through my call sign and I did that purposely. There are only a few people that post here or who used used to post here who's real identity is known to me. Pocketradio is not here to set the record straight, and I'll leave at that, incidentally was our exchange cordial? ;D

 

[KB1OKL]

Some corporate conspiracy might be way over the top.

So I’m left to believe, its like the radio bus is driving down the road with no driver, and everybody in the back is screaming directions for the wandering little bus.

It’s difficult to reconcile and explain why the NAB, broadcasters and FCC would approve of and mandate a system, that causes MORE NOISE, not less on the AM band. After all, I’ve been taught to believe, listeners reject AM radio in part because of the static, clicks, pops, and noise. It makes no logical sense. Then again when did logic ever enter into this..

I don't believe there was an intentional conspiracy either although it is a tempting idea to believe that, I agree with Savage 100% but I don't know if they're too dumb to admit they're hurting themselves or too arrogant, maybe a little of both. I think the wheels are really about to come off the cart though, it's been hobbling down the road propped up by the Alliance for one leg and believers for the other but it seems that both are going away quickly.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

It sure as H-E-double-hockey sticks is affecting THIS "Bluer-Than-Blue" state. (Credit" (c) 1978 Michael Johnson. Think it was Big Tree Records.)

I don't believe for a minute that there was a "vast corporate conspiracy to jam all the little stations off the air." The record indicates that there was a kind self-defeating arrogance, actually. The big USADR players (later iBiquity) were warned: there is going to be an adjacent-channel skywave interference problem. They gritted their teeth and agreed among themselves to accept it, because they had deluded themselves into believing "radio can't survive unless it goes digital." When the inevitable question was asked, what about non-Alliance and smaller market stations and the harm to them? They just shrugged and said, in effect, "screw 'em." Don't believe that? Look at what's happened. There is utterly NO interest in or effort to mitigate harmful interference to other stations; it's part of the "interference? What interference?" rationalization. That's why 70-year old rules applicable to interference protection for analog AM broadcasting were conveniently grafted onto digital, which is completely invalid from an engineering standpoint. They all knew this. It was all part of the "oh well, the 'herd needs thinning anyway' mentality."

Vast conspiracy? No. Vast arrogance, dismissal of other operators' interests and myopic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stupidity? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And they're to dumb to admit they're hurting themselves and each other more than they're hurting us little guys.

Add to that an astonishing refusal to learn from their own history. If AM stereo...a medium that DIDN'T cause destructive interference, didn't require paying various body parts in royalties to a private company and could sound really good with minimal effort and cost (compared with HD)...couldn't succeed, what hope did AM-HD have?

 

[clouseau]

It sure as H-E-double-hockey sticks is affecting THIS "Bluer-Than-Blue" state. (Credit" (c) 1978 Michael Johnson. Think it was Big Tree Records.)

I don't believe for a minute that there was a "vast corporate conspiracy to jam all the little stations off the air." The record indicates that there was a kind self-defeating arrogance, actually. The big USADR players (later iBiquity) were warned: there is going to be an adjacent-channel skywave interference problem.

Bob, I know you hate the AM side. Digitaldisaster.org does not address the AM side. Their "Chicken Little" scenario predicted the end of FM. It's NOT AM.

They gritted their teeth and agreed among themselves to accept it, because they had deluded themselves into believing "radio can't survive unless it goes digital." When the inevitable question was asked, what about non-Alliance and smaller market stations and the harm to them? They just shrugged and said, in effect, "screw 'em." Don't believe that? Look at what's happened. There is utterly NO interest in or effort to mitigate harmful interference to other stations; it's part of the "interference? What interference?" rationalization. That's why 70-year old rules applicable to interference protection for analog AM broadcasting were conveniently grafted onto digital, which is completely invalid from an engineering standpoint. They all knew this. It was all part of the "oh well, the 'herd needs thinning anyway' mentality."

You're still on AM. FM really has not suffered, IMHO. Please don't misinterpret my condemnation of Digitaldisaster.org as a full blown denial of AM problems. I stated in my last post there were AM issues. I stand by that.

Vast conspiracy? No. Vast arrogance, dismissal of other operators' interests and myopic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stupidity? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And they're to dumb to admit they're hurting themselves and each other more than they're hurting us little guys.

Hurting themselves? Opinions vary, and that should be left to another thread. This 2002 era quoted article is a complete MISRREPRESENTATION of what "WILL" happen if FM IBOC is allowed. Rarely has anyone been so wrong about radio interference. (OK there's the NAB and LPFM, but...)

BTW aside from the "hurting themselves", I agree with your last paragraph above 100%. Hurting themselves? Less than 100%

Clouseau

 

[clouseau]

You are right Inspector about screen names, some of us have them and some of us don't and it is impossible to know who is behind them, I am easily traceable through my call sign and I did that purposely. There are only a few people that post here or who used used to post here who's real identity is known to me. Pocketradio is not here to set the record straight, and I'll leave at that, incidentally was our exchange cordial? ;D

KB,

I have no idea who you ACTUALLY are. What makes me think you are using your actual call sign? People "SEEM" to be who they are, but who really knows. Someone could use a callsign they made up, one randomly stolen out of the database, or a superceeded one from their college roommate. No one really knows anyone.

BTW, I'm assuming all your exchanges are cordial. Why would I be any different?

73's de KA8FYO. Or whatever...

Clouseau

 

[TheBigA]

So I’m left to believe, its like the radio bus is driving down the road with no driver, and everybody in the back is screaming directions for the wandering little bus.

That's what free enterprise looks like. There is no one person or one company in charge of radio. Not only do all companies operate independently, but even companies within the Alliance operate independently. We all know stations that operated independently within their ownership groups.

It’s difficult to reconcile and explain why the NAB, broadcasters and FCC would approve of and mandate a system, that causes MORE NOISE, not less on the AM band.

It has not been mandated.

 

[clouseau]

So I’m left to believe, its like the radio bus is driving down the road with no driver, and everybody in the back is screaming directions for the wandering little bus.

That's what free enterprise looks like. There is no one person or one company in charge of radio. Not only do all companies operate independently, but even companies within the Alliance operate independently. We all know stations that operated independently within their ownership groups.

I hate chiming in with "Yeah, what he said", but you nailed it, Big A. Herding cats is child's play compared to getting broadcasters to agree. Clearly with IBOC, they didn't get "EVERYONE" to agree. Apparently, though, they did get "Critical mass".

It’s difficult to reconcile and explain why the NAB, broadcasters and FCC would approve of and mandate a system, that causes MORE NOISE, not less on the AM band.

It has not been mandated.

Details. Don't confuse those postings with facts. They're on a roll.

Clouseau

 

[KB1OKL]

BTW, I'm assuming all your exchanges are cordial. Why would I be any different?

73's de KA8FYO. Or whatever...

Clouseau

I didn't know you were of the cloth Inspector ;D

QRZ.com

 

[KB1OKL]

That's what free enterprise looks like. There is no one person or one company in charge of radio. Not only do all companies operate independently, but even companies within the Alliance operate independently. We all know stations that operated independently within their ownership groups.

I hate chiming in with "Yeah, what he said", but you nailed it, Big A. Herding cats is child's play compared to getting broadcasters to agree. Clearly with IBOC, they didn't get "EVERYONE" to agree. Apparently, though, they did get "Critical mass".

Clouseau

Critical mass is a very apt term from IBOC, boom!

 

[clouseau]

BTW, I'm assuming all your exchanges are cordial. Why would I be any different?

73's de KA8FYO. Or whatever...

Clouseau

I didn't know you were of the cloth Inspector ;D

QRZ.com

I'm not. You missed the part about

"Someone could use a callsign they made up, one randomly stolen out of the database, or a superceeded one from their college roommate."

I am not the person you refer to in the QRZ listing. While I AM listed in QRZ, my callsign is NOT the one I listed for illustration earlier. (As I mentioned)

Who I am is not important.

BTW, your Massachusettes identity thing is great. You have done a great job concealing the fact that you probably live in Quartzsite, AZ and are cheif engineer for KBUX.

Clouseau

 

[Savage]

Inspector, sincerely: good to hear from you.

"FM really has not suffered, IMHO....."

Stay tuned! If they get their tenfold digital increase....umm......

 

[KB1OKL]

BTW, I'm assuming all your exchanges are cordial. Why would I be any different?

73's de KA8FYO. Or whatever...

Clouseau

I didn't know you were of the cloth Inspector ;D

QRZ.com

I'm not. You missed the part about

"Someone could use a callsign they made up, one randomly stolen out of the database, or a superceeded one from their college roommate."

I am not the person you refer to in the QRZ listing. While I AM listed in QRZ, my callsign is NOT the one I listed for illustration earlier. (As I mentioned)

Who I am is not important.

BTW, your Massachusettes identity thing is great. You have done a great job concealing the fact that you probably live in Quartzsite, AZ and are cheif engineer for KBUX.

Clouseau

I'm joking Inspector, I'm sure you picked that call out of thin air and when I found that it was a minister it was kind of funny, but I am that person in MA as I'm sure you already know and probably couldn't care less . I have nothing to hide.