hi....very interested in learning more about the charleston and columbia markets. dont know as much about SC radio as other parts of southeast. who is the leader? who's the old leader that's been rundown? who's got the talent? who's got upside? teach an old radio dog about these 2 markets.
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Columbia & Charleston
- Thread starter CumulusBuilder
- Start date
Please. Cumulus would have to enter Florence and Myrtle Beach before considering larger markets.
They can't handle what they already have.
They can't handle what they already have.
C
chickontheradio
Guest
Wabbit Season said:Please. Cumulus would have to enter Florence and Myrtle Beach before considering larger markets.
They can't handle what they already have.
I'm no expert on Florence or Myrtle Beach but doesn't Cumulus have WYNN in Florence? Arbitrons got them at number one.
DudeFan said:Clear Channel almost doesn't have any talent. See through building.
in markets this size clear channel can pipe directly to the transmitter better talent without a local studio.
If you do a little research. A Citadel/Cumulus deal has been kicked around a couple times, including Nashville, where CumulusBuilder has posted a bit. CDL is rumored to be preparing a Chapter 11 filing that would also likely involve divestment of smaller properties. Cumulus operates in Athens and Atlanta. The two markets mentioned by "CumulusBuilder" -- Columbia and Charleston -- have only two operators that have both markets in common: Citadel and Clear Channel.
As for Columbia and Charleston being too small for good local talent, I call BS on that. 15-20 years ago there were a lot of talented folks on the air in both markets. Not at every station, but certainly lots of folks better than Seacrest or any of the folks piped in from Charlotte on WNOK. The lack of local talent lies completely at the feet of Clear Channel and other operators who stopped recruiting, hiring, and training new talent. Imagine this: Seacrest would probably be 100x better on the radio if he had been trained by a Rick Dees or a Jay Thomas, rather than simply thrashing about like he's done.
As for Columbia and Charleston being too small for good local talent, I call BS on that. 15-20 years ago there were a lot of talented folks on the air in both markets. Not at every station, but certainly lots of folks better than Seacrest or any of the folks piped in from Charlotte on WNOK. The lack of local talent lies completely at the feet of Clear Channel and other operators who stopped recruiting, hiring, and training new talent. Imagine this: Seacrest would probably be 100x better on the radio if he had been trained by a Rick Dees or a Jay Thomas, rather than simply thrashing about like he's done.
chickontheradio said:Wabbit Season said:Please. Cumulus would have to enter Florence and Myrtle Beach before considering larger markets.
They can't handle what they already have.
I'm no expert on Florence or Myrtle Beach but doesn't Cumulus have WYNN in Florence? Arbitrons got them at number one.
They SHOULD be #1 - Florence is 40% black population. In both Florence and Myrtle Beach, Cumulus has whittled their staff down to a skeleton crew - last I heard, the Florence cluster had three - count 'em, three - programming staff running things.
sorry...i forgot. this is the inferiority-based radio business where everyone's a conspiracy theorist.
i was simply asking a question -- trying to learn about the markets -- areas of the southeast i didn't know about. didnt realize my question would result in a merger.
i was simply asking a question -- trying to learn about the markets -- areas of the southeast i didn't know about. didnt realize my question would result in a merger.
C'mon, CB, get real. You knew what you were doing when you posed the question. What would an "old dog" from Nashville with a screen name like yours be doing trolling the South Carolina boards unless one of two things were true, that is: #1-You actually are employed by Cumulus and were consciously stirring the pot a bit contemplating a future gig should Cumulus move into either area or, #2-you aren't employed by Cumulus but you're contemplating a future gig with Cumulus should they move into either area and you're unconsciously stirring the pot. The fact that you act like you know the business gives credence to the former rather than the latter...in which case, your denials make you sound the tiniest bit disingenuous. It's cool though. Despite the fact that both areas have been gutted by Clear Channel(among others) talentwise over the past 8 or 9 years, South Carolina(and specifically the two areas you mentioned) actually has been a radio talent factory over the years. Be forewarned, however, as I've said time and time again, the road into and out of Columbia is littered with the carcasses of programmers from other areas who thought that South Carolinians still squatted to piss and, therefore, didn't know what "good" radio was. So, when each of them graced us with their superior knowledge, experience and talent, without fail they tried to cram their so-called "programming" down the listeners' collective throats...and suffered dismal ratings and, consequently, pinkslip flu.
That's pretty much all anyone needs to know. Do with it what you will. Good luck.
That's pretty much all anyone needs to know. Do with it what you will. Good luck.
well...not to get in pissing match with you...but no...YOU ARE WRONG. I've been in radio for years...and I didnt know much about these two markets. Know NC, TN, KY, AL radio pretty well...and wanted to know some about these two.
You're right. I have been in radio for awhile...my entire working life...teenager to now...approaching 25 years. I love the industry. However, I read something recently on Radio Ink that is so true. One of the biggest problems with radio is that we are an industry that's got an inferiority complex. We're the ones who doom ourselves...because we're caught up in self doubt....insecurity....which is borne out in your conspiracy theories #1 and #2. Just this week...when the NBC-TV correspondent mentioned radio as a dying industry...there were emails and articles...with radio people trotting out statistics...like some wimpering kids on a playground. "That's not true...that's not true....75% of Americans listen to radio....we're not dying...we're not dying."
Instead, what we should have said is...."I don't think I would talking about dying communications/media businesses if I worked for a network that just shaved five hours out of its prime time programming every week." Part of radio's problems -- in addition to Cumulus, Clear Channel, Citadel trying to make huge gains on an industry that's never going to produce it -- is that we do not ignore those that try to bully us. We react as though we have to prove we are useful. In short, we need more balls.
And we need a return to more local owners in Columbia, Raleigh, Knoxville, Birmingham....where radio DOES matter...if we focus on WHY it matters. These bean counters have tried to turn radio into McDonalds....same burger in every town in America. That's not what radio is. It's personal. As you said ssumers, it's about seeing what the people in Florence or Columbia or Charleston or wherever wants...understanding those city's unique needs and qualities...and delivering. How many of us have heard a top-rated radio station in a market....and said..."why do they do x??? That's weird." Then, we find out later...that station has done x and the people there have come to expect it.
But, we've got to do more than just critcize the Fahrids and Dickeys of the world. Each one of us who is a broadcaster has to take personal responsbility. Quit the belly-aching. Quit the conspiracy theories. End the spiraling gossip. Have pride in our industry.
Sorry, ssummers. This isnt meant at you personally. And yes, maybe Im dreaming. Maybe my mistake was not personally seeking out people in these markets to help me learn. I hoped there would be people on this board who, like me, would like to share knowledge. Maybe today's environment is not the one in which to ask.
You're right. I have been in radio for awhile...my entire working life...teenager to now...approaching 25 years. I love the industry. However, I read something recently on Radio Ink that is so true. One of the biggest problems with radio is that we are an industry that's got an inferiority complex. We're the ones who doom ourselves...because we're caught up in self doubt....insecurity....which is borne out in your conspiracy theories #1 and #2. Just this week...when the NBC-TV correspondent mentioned radio as a dying industry...there were emails and articles...with radio people trotting out statistics...like some wimpering kids on a playground. "That's not true...that's not true....75% of Americans listen to radio....we're not dying...we're not dying."
Instead, what we should have said is...."I don't think I would talking about dying communications/media businesses if I worked for a network that just shaved five hours out of its prime time programming every week." Part of radio's problems -- in addition to Cumulus, Clear Channel, Citadel trying to make huge gains on an industry that's never going to produce it -- is that we do not ignore those that try to bully us. We react as though we have to prove we are useful. In short, we need more balls.
And we need a return to more local owners in Columbia, Raleigh, Knoxville, Birmingham....where radio DOES matter...if we focus on WHY it matters. These bean counters have tried to turn radio into McDonalds....same burger in every town in America. That's not what radio is. It's personal. As you said ssumers, it's about seeing what the people in Florence or Columbia or Charleston or wherever wants...understanding those city's unique needs and qualities...and delivering. How many of us have heard a top-rated radio station in a market....and said..."why do they do x??? That's weird." Then, we find out later...that station has done x and the people there have come to expect it.
But, we've got to do more than just critcize the Fahrids and Dickeys of the world. Each one of us who is a broadcaster has to take personal responsbility. Quit the belly-aching. Quit the conspiracy theories. End the spiraling gossip. Have pride in our industry.
Sorry, ssummers. This isnt meant at you personally. And yes, maybe Im dreaming. Maybe my mistake was not personally seeking out people in these markets to help me learn. I hoped there would be people on this board who, like me, would like to share knowledge. Maybe today's environment is not the one in which to ask.
CB you know as well as anyone else that alot of people in the radio business are all for themselves and no one else. Therefore trust is a very hard thing to work with in times like these. I am not saying that everyone in the radio business is self centered but you have to admit that just about everyone out there as probly been affected by someone or some company that at one time or another didn't give a D**n about their lives familys or what was important to them so naturally your going to get answer to your question just like the one you got. I wish the radio industery as a whole could trade information and ideas to help build a better media and even thou there are alot of good people out there don't look for it to happen.
CumulusBuilder said:well...not to get in pissing match with you...but no...YOU ARE WRONG. I've been in radio for years...and I didnt know much about these two markets. Know NC, TN, KY, AL radio pretty well...and wanted to know some about these two.
You're right. I have been in radio for awhile...my entire working life...teenager to now...approaching 25 years. I love the industry. However, I read something recently on Radio Ink that is so true. One of the biggest problems with radio is that we are an industry that's got an inferiority complex. We're the ones who doom ourselves...because we're caught up in self doubt....insecurity....which is borne out in your conspiracy theories #1 and #2. Just this week...when the NBC-TV correspondent mentioned radio as a dying industry...there were emails and articles...with radio people trotting out statistics...like some wimpering kids on a playground. "That's not true...that's not true....75% of Americans listen to radio....we're not dying...we're not dying."
Instead, what we should have said is...."I don't think I would talking about dying communications/media businesses if I worked for a network that just shaved five hours out of its prime time programming every week." Part of radio's problems -- in addition to Cumulus, Clear Channel, Citadel trying to make huge gains on an industry that's never going to produce it -- is that we do not ignore those that try to bully us. We react as though we have to prove we are useful. In short, we need more balls.
And we need a return to more local owners in Columbia, Raleigh, Knoxville, Birmingham....where radio DOES matter...if we focus on WHY it matters. These bean counters have tried to turn radio into McDonalds....same burger in every town in America. That's not what radio is. It's personal. As you said ssumers, it's about seeing what the people in Florence or Columbia or Charleston or wherever wants...understanding those city's unique needs and qualities...and delivering. How many of us have heard a top-rated radio station in a market....and said..."why do they do x??? That's weird." Then, we find out later...that station has done x and the people there have come to expect it.
But, we've got to do more than just critcize the Fahrids and Dickeys of the world. Each one of us who is a broadcaster has to take personal responsbility. Quit the belly-aching. Quit the conspiracy theories. End the spiraling gossip. Have pride in our industry.
Sorry, ssummers. This isnt meant at you personally. And yes, maybe Im dreaming. Maybe my mistake was not personally seeking out people in these markets to help me learn. I hoped there would be people on this board who, like me, would like to share knowledge. Maybe today's environment is not the one in which to ask.
I still don't think you're being as forthcoming as you could be, but it doesn't really matter. Don't worry, I didn't take anything you said personally, mainly because I don't suffer from an inferiority complex...personally or radio-wise. See, radio may suffer from an inferiority complex overall, but not because of South Carolina broadcasters. It's the monolithic broadcast entities with high debt ratios that have bought radio properties so fast that they weren't even aware of what stations they owned. They were required to turn profits ASAP and, to do that, they gutted the infrastructure of the broadcast model and gave rise to the popularity(amongst those same monolithic broadcast entities) of "cookie cutter" formats, djs and promotions. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't Clear Channel that started it, but they perfected it. And when I say the broadcast landscape is "littered" with fired PDs from days gone by, I'm not even referencing any Clear Channel programmers at all. In fact, CC has several quality programmers and Toby Knapp was one of them. But before CC, there was Audobon Broadcasting, HMW, Emerald City, AM/FM, Southern Star, Capstar...and that's just the lineage of one radio station in the Columbia market. Each new owner came into town, promising the world and that nothing would change, and people kept believing that same line of BS from each new regime and were continuously disappointed until now, when we've arrived at the present state of radio in Columbia(and you can make the same case for the other markets, too), when they've run WNOK into the ground and moved the WNOK franchise, Jonathan Rush, to WCOS. And if you truly don't know anything about the market and you take one thing away from this discourse, let it be that the LAST time WNOK was programmed by a PD who understood the market and the tools he had at his disposal, it was Jonathan Freaking Rush.
So, when do you start?
Let me try to explain this to you thusly...its radio. We're all passionate about it because we've all been there.This market is like all other markets. Good radio, better radio people. And we're all doing the same thing...trying to survive in uncertain times. If you know something, please, enlighten us. If not I hope you find what you seek.
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