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Columbus Under Water

C

ChiefEngineer

What is the current coverage of the flooding in Columbus?

My mom has lost everything and isn't in a flood area. The break of the Princes Lake Dam forced water into the Haw Creek it couldn't handle.

After the Dam break she watched a wall of water surge into her home, break windows, and now it's just a mess.

As I understand it, no specific warnings were issued. There is the general flood warning which always happens anytime it rains hard. These warnings are usually ignored when they are always issued for an area with no specific threat noted. There was no specific warning for the Haw Creek. No specific warning related to the Dam burst.

The rain ended early in the morning and the sun was shining at 3:30 in the afternoon when the water from Princes Lake rolled into Columbus. Even if you look at the vague Flood Warning does anyone else see how this is so inadequate because the Dam burst and the usual flooding from rain have no comparison? Even those who are vigilant about flooding would not have expected the hospital to be flooded.
 
I don't live in Columbus. But with all the rain we've had over the past week, and the major flood warnings, pictures on TV of Johnson County and others to the south with flooded cornfields, roads, etc., HOW COULD YOU BE SURPRISED THAT THERE WAS A FLOOD?

It rains in Indiana. It floods in Indiana. Indianapolis was built on a river bed in someone's infinite wisdom. You live in a flood plain.

Does someone need to warn you only when it's flooding in YOUR neighborhood? Otherwise all the flood warnings are to be ignored?

You say there was a 'vague Flood Warning' - well, a warning means IT"S HAPPENING!

Tornado warnings are 'vague' as well, they don't know where they will touch down, or which houses they will hit. But does that mean you should never pay attention? Should they give you a STRONGER warning when it's coming to YOUR house?

Why is it when there is a flood or natural disaster, everyone wants to blame someone for not sending a limo to pick them up before-hand? Sorry about your mother - but how is it RADIO'S FAULT!?
 
I don't believe he's upset at radio, but upset that an emergency alert wasn't issued downstream of a dam failure. I can see that argument.

Anyone in the Columbus area have any info on how local media is handling this. I'm listening to QMIX's stream, but White River doesn't appear to stream any of their stations. Just wondering what they're up to.
 
News Guy said:
I don't believe he's upset at radio, but upset that an emergency alert wasn't issued downstream of a dam failure. I can see that argument.

Anyone in the Columbus area have any info on how local media is handling this. I'm listening to QMIX's stream, but White River doesn't appear to stream any of their stations. Just wondering what they're up to.
Click to expand...

How long does it take for the water to get to your house when the damn breaks?

1 minute? 5 minutes? 20 minutes?

How much time does the person who activates the emergency alert system have from the time a damn breaks until it gets to your house? 30 seconds, 4 minutes?

It takes time to get the alert OUT! And my guess is the water traveled pretty quickly.

A FLOOD WARNING is a FLOOD WARNING. It doesn't mean, 'we'll let you know REALLY have to start paying attention!'

I get the point. But I think you'd have to look at the time frame, the unexpected occurance, and how long it was before anyone in that capacity would have know the damn broke. Then they have to dispatch that, then get it to the EAS, then get it to the media, then the media has to break from the MOODY BLUES to get that alert out to the public...

...the entire town could be underwater by then.

I do hope Chief's mother and her neighbors were all okay. That's an unexpected and terrible thing to have to go through.

But let's not blame those that work daily in order to save our lives and keep us from harm.

A Flood Warning DOES mean rivers, streams and lakes can overflow their borders. Damns and LEVY'S can and do break.

Even if you're not in a usual flood area, you can't ignore these warnings. A flood warning doesn't just mean your backyard is going to be a pond for a few days. Serious consequences other than standing water can occur during a flood.
 
I do agree that warnings should never be ignored. The problem with the EAS at unattended stations is that they go off once. If you tune in 30 seconds after the warning ends you'll never hear it again unless a new one is issued. Maybe the FCC should look at resending certain warnings every 5-10 minutes or so.
 
I'm sure I sound uncaring in this thread, but that's not the intent. not sure warning could have been given, with any time relevance, but there is a solution...

if the FCC ISN"T going to require that stations actually serve their COL and actually SERVE the public, then the FCC should take a channel and put the weather radio system in EVERY market.

That way, TO SERVE THE PUBLIC if you are going to allow all these cash-cows to sit back and watch their COLs distressed during bad weather and do nothing about it, at least the 24/7 weather radio alert system could be available FREE to ALL citizens with a radio.

Why even put up the joke of a premise that stations are going to serve the public? Someone mentioned it takes time to gather info, so they'll play a song, well, maybe that's when I'm scannign the dial looking for SOMEONE to tell me what's happening. how do I know after the song you'll be there?

WHY can't the weather station be on free radio? Or would that impede the profit vehicle of the PUBLIC AIRWAVES?
 
A reminder that EAS as designed requires rebroadcast of the national EAN, a monthly relayed test and a weekly local test (on weeks without a monthly or actual alert) and reception of tests from others. EAS does not require rebroadcast of weather warnings of any severity.

That is the first thing that needs to be changed - unless stations voluntarily comply with a rule that hasn't been written.

People do tend to take warnings lightly. They hear flood warnings and remember the last flood ... that came nowhere near their property. Dams breaking and severe weather change that. In those extraordinary cases extraordinary measures need to be taken.
 
I think these stations should have to serve their community in which they are licensed. They get permission to make money for free by the government via the FCC. The only thing they should have to do is alert local people when there is a danger.

When I was in Danville I used to rely heavily on WKLU for local information. Then they moved out and basically stopped their commitment to Hendricks County. Yet I hear their profits are through the roof. Many other stations are the exact same way. It is like they are getting rewarded for failing to serve us local listeners with basic information.
 
The problem was that despite the "Flood Warning" issued the day before it was a bright sunny day when the flooding started.

If you know what areas normally flood you avoid them. This is a flood bigger than anyone there has ever seen.

Columbus had 4 inches of rain. Princes Lake had 11. The Dam started breaking at 10:30 and Columbus was hit at 3-4pm.

While credit is not given on Youtube you can hear at the end of this video Jim Burgan's voice while the video shows a trip from Highway 7 into Columbus.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/columbus-in-flood-june-2008/1720049469

What no one seems to know is how insurance will treat this flood. It is clear it was a result of the dam break and areas that were damaged had never seen this much water even in 1913.

Flood stage is 12 feet on the White River and it is at 21 feet. Seeing Cummins Palnt 1 under water was something no one has ever seen, as the Hospital, and many hosing additions "safe" from flooding.
 
Any warning should be taken seriously, but I think for this a disaster siren should have gone off, I see what he means though. EAS alerts sometimes go off way too late anyway.
 
I get your grief. This is an awful situation. With that in mind ...

And if a WARNING SIREN went off, on a sunny day, would you have thought it was a test?

Chief, other than the obvious grief and pain this has caused many people, I'm not sure what your point of the post was, other than to point out the terrible situation those residents are now going through.

But was there suppose to be something that could have been done that wasn't?

You say "the problem was that despite the "Flood Warning" issued the day before it was a bright sunny day when the flooding started." -- But what are you saying the SOLUTION was?

Your initial point made it sound like public officials or the media let the citizens down - in what way?

If there was 5 minutes or so between the time the damn broke and it hit the neighborhoods, was there enough time to get the alert out? And was it actually OUT but you didn't hear it?

That would have to be taken into account before 'blame' can be assigned.

And where is the Dutchman on this? How did the stations respond to this happening?
 
I was on the air talking about the flood when the power went out at 9:30 PM. I had battery backup
to run the station for 30 minututes. But the electricity was off till 4 AM. There was water two miles
from our station when the power went off. But at 6 AM there was deep water just outside the door.
People were calling me desperate for help, stranded in businesses and homes. People were missing.
The cable went out. Cell phones did not work. Then, no power.

When the TV went out, I tuned to WRZQ. The people at QMIX did a great job of covering the
Columbus flood, I have to give them credit. I listened for hours.
 
radioindy said:
I get your grief. This is an awful situation. With that in mind ...

And if a WARNING SIREN went off, on a sunny day, would you have thought it was a test?
Click to expand...
No because they have specific times for tests, usually high noon the last friday of the month. Didn't as I recall September 11th was a clear, sunny day?
 
ChiefEngineer said:
What no one seems to know is how insurance will treat this flood. It is clear it was a result of the dam break and areas that were damaged had never seen this much water even in 1913.
Click to expand...
Not at all sure the Princes Lakes Dam ever did fail. Water flowed over it & the earth beyond it was washed away, but the lake is still fully contained...at least that's what WTHR's video showed Sunday June 8. Similar thing at Hope's Schaefer Lake...Dam is reported to be in fine shape, but the flood gates opened as they should have. Also, many reports that the 17th street bridge in Columbus collapsed...WTHR's live report this morning made no mention of that. It'll be interesting to see what the true facts of the flood really were/are after the dust...er, water settles.
 
**climbing onto my radio soapbox**

Bartholomew County Radio (and forgive me if I've missed any):
- 106.1fm - a few cut in's... probably an updated message every half an hour
- 104.9fm - same cluster... didn't hear any... but probably the same as 106.1
- 101.5fm - didn't listen... same cluster... see above
- 1010am - didn't listen... nobody listens to AM anymore (not serious about that statement and don't include this station in my rant)
- 107.3fm - A song... weather coverage... another song... weather coverage.

Johnson County
- 95.9fm - (during the times I listened) Dr. F'ing Laura... no cut in's.

Let me start off by saying that if QMIX or KORN were a public radio station, I would donate my next paycheck to them. I still may. I wasn't a fan of the guys who were on the air joking and what not (although some would say in situations like this, you have to hold up a sense of humor of sorts) but they were constantly breaking into the music and telling the citizens of Bartholomew County and surrounding areas what is going on. Hat's off to Reising and their two stations in Columbus... THEY are what radio is supposed to be!!!

I'm sure Bruce and his LPFM was also on top of things... but I don't have his station programmed into my dashboard and therefore forget the number and calls.

In Franklin... the FRANKLIN RADIO STATION 95.9fm "FREEDOM" Radio was running Dr. F'ing Laura! This is the worst flooding in INDIANA HISTORY, people... and you're running a syndicated program!?!?!?!?! Come on, guys!!! SERIOUSLY!!!! These are the times when local communities NEED THEIR LOCAL RADIO STATIONS for information... ROAD CLOSURES... things that are affecting THEM!!!! Even if you're the only one there, loop these messages... put them at the beginning AND the end of each commercial break... at the BEGINNING AND END of each song... PEOPLE COUNT ON YOU... and when all they get is music like "It's a Beautiful Day," "How to Save a Life," or "I'm Walking on Sunshine" (while, except for my dislike for anything U2, they are good songs) THEY DO NOT HELP YOUR LISTENERS IN A TIME OF EMERGENCY!!!!!

Why is this happening to a business that I used to love so dearly!?

...one of the reasons why I don't touch my QMIX!!!

</rant>
 
I'm curious what WCBK and WCLS did along the White river, and WSDM in Brazil. All generally are canned on the weekend.

I love my job, but it prohibits armchair quarterbacking now and then. :p
 
radioindy said:
WHY can't the weather station be on free radio? Or would that impede the profit vehicle of the PUBLIC AIRWAVES?
Click to expand...

It is. Lawrence county it's on 162.450. Jackson and Jennings county it's on 162.525. It's called the National Weather Service.

Working in radio I learned a long time ago, you cannot depend on them anymore. I am in Oldham county Kentucky and I have three weather radios in my home.

I have seen how the sausage is made, I do NOT depend on the broadcast media to get the warning out in a timely fashion. You can get a basic weather radio with alert at Radio Shack for $20.
 
I will sound harsh I am sure but here goes. Quit whining. Quit looking to the government to impose MORE rules and Legislation. Radio is already overcompetitive. There are too many signals in most areas. I see people wishing for the old days when COL were loved and treated better. Well cut the number of stations by 60% and have them serve the COL. They can then make $$ in there hometown and serve it well. Remember this still is a for profit industry, you do want to get paid right? You can't make any $ where you are and can move the station to a more lucrative area I see why they do it. Your poor COL is underserved well they should have been better at supporting the station which in turn would allow those local stations to hire reporters and cover local news. I know it is expensive I have worked at radio groups with fantastic AM news talkers where everyone tuned in when weather turned bad. News Flash EVERY STATE has bad weather events and if you are known for covering them your ratings and reputation are enhanced.
I am not ignoring the flood. It is was a tragedy for destruction of property and lives However, know where you live and if there are dams and levees in your area you need to have more than a second grade mentality and understand that no matter how well engineered and maintained nature will prevail over time. Live in a flood plain and you will get a flood, dam the rivers up and you will get a bigger flood abiet less often. Some areas are built up at bad areas and you make a choice to live there. Deal with it and when you lose it all it is not different than if you rolled snake eyes at the wrong time. The flood in New Orleans should have set an example. It was a flood and not a hurricane that caused the problems and it annoys me to no end when katrina is brought up as the excuse. Hey your city is below the river and you bury the dead above ground good chance you will be underwater at some point. Same goes for Columbus and many other areas around the country.
 
gmradio said:
I will sound harsh I am sure but here goes. Quit whining. Quit looking to the government to impose MORE rules and Legislation. Radio is already overcompetitive.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is blaming the stations for coverage. The town is not underserved.

Second grade mentality?

The retaining wall of several dams at Princes Lake broke. The lakes did not fully empty as Bob points out. They still retain water. The problem is the amount of water that was dumped. The live pictures from 13 showed one of the Dams overflow a causeway (the only road into the area) and on-air reference was made to the break of the other 2.

I suppose we should prepare for a glacier because one covered North America when Dinosaurs were here?

A lifeong resident I didn't know there was a dam. I thought they were lakes.

This is a flood that exceeds levels of 1913. Areas that flooded then have never flooded. Looking at the DNR site there is no mention of the Dams that were compromised.

Bruce mentions the initial rain flood that happened. The normal flood expected areas that come with spring rains people prepare for. They have permanent high water signs that they open or close depending on the rainfall.

As much planning as goes into Interstate Construction making it unaffected by any flood, the interstate system was affected by this. Railroads were not affected directly but some may be washed out, and they are checking. These are systems in palce since the 1800's.

There are homes that are in areas that have never flooded, even in 1913 that are total losses.

The solution to this?

EBS was revised because people largely ignored it. Routine tests , etc.

Flood Warnings are great if they are SPECIFIC. The warning issued before the dam broke people took action on. On a bright sunny day after the flooding had taken it's toll the effect of the dam break was not considered. No new warning was issued.

Now consider the NWS that used to have live staff instead of computer generated forecasts and live people.

Do they have 2 people at the NWS that instead of being on the phone with Channel 13 during the Dam break could instead be on the phone with local law enforcement and local radio? Or could they issue a specific NEW warning rather than just wait for the wave of water to roll in.

The government is there and should maintain the NWS or shut it down.

I suppose the fault should rest with them.
 
gmradio said:
Quit looking to the government to impose MORE rules and Legislation. Radio is already over competitive. There are too many signals in most areas.
Click to expand...

Remember who you're talking to.
 
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