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Coming soon to a Volvo near you!

This isn't exactly a breakthrough for Ibiquity. Ford bought Volvo's car division in 1998 (the truck, bus and construction equipment divisions are still under Swedish ownership). Remember that Ford is already an Ibiquity licensee (as well as a stakeholder), so you could think of this as no different from having "HD" as an option in a Mercury or a Lincoln.

And one web site reports that Ford is considering selling its Volvo auto division to BMW, which is already an Ibiquity licensee, too. (See http://www.tengears.com/home/2007/11/12/volvo-may-be-sold-to-bmw.html)

And it's still only an option!

So how is this a coup for Ibiquity?
 
This board is just priceless. Anyone remember when Ford announced HD as a "Dealer Installed option". That was crap because it was dealer installed. Now we have factory installed - apparently if I read it right, some "Standard" radios. And it's offcially "Not A Coup". (Can anyone find a place in the release or the post where it was claimed to be?)

radioskeptic said:
This isn't exactly a breakthrough for Ibiquity. Ford bought Volvo's car division in 1998 (the truck, bus and construction equipment divisions are still under Swedish ownership). Remember that Ford is already an Ibiquity licensee (as well as a stakeholder), so you could think of this as no different from having "HD" as an option in a Mercury or a Lincoln.

And one web site reports that Ford is considering selling its Volvo auto division to BMW, which is already an Ibiquity licensee, too. (See http://www.tengears.com/home/2007/11/12/volvo-may-be-sold-to-bmw.html)

And it's still only an option!

So how is this a coup for Ibiquity?
Click to expand...

Good point. Let's just retitle this "The Last Nail in the HD Radio Coffin". :)

Clouseau
 
From the Radio Ink article, I believe it will be standard in some models, not an option.

Regardless of who owns the company, it's another brand of vehicles that will incorporate HD Radio technology.
 
Yep, it's "another brand." A financially troubled brand. One that's being shopped to help stop the bleeding at Ford, along with Jaguar, Aston-Martin, et al. One with a negligible world market share.

Now, if GM, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, or Daimler-Chrysler announce HD as a standard feature on factory audio systems, you'll have a real story.
 
Savage said:
Yep, it's "another brand." A financially troubled brand. One that's being shopped to help stop the bleeding at Ford, along with Jaguar, Aston-Martin, et al. One with a negligible world market share.
Click to expand...

Actually, Ford is trying to sell the boutique brands because they are not core to rebuilding the company and they have great value. They need the money to pay for the bleeding at Ford. In fact, the sale of Aston Martin allowed Ford to make a profit in the second quarter and to reduce by a half-billion the projected $3 billion dollar loss for 2007.

As to negligable market share, keep in mind that the most profitable car company is Porsche... "Porsche most profitable automaker, makes $28k per car sold" (mobile Magazine). It is about margin, not volume. Volvo is the profitable part of the Ford PAG and has helped cover a bit of Ford's huge losses.
 
I certainly agree with you that the Ford specialty marques - Volvo, Aston, Jag, Rover - all have terrific value. I never claimed otherwise. And I likewise agree that Ford needs to get back to basics to get the company back on track and that the niche brands pose a likely management distraction from core issues.

But the point here was whether Volvo's making HD a standard or optional feature would get an appreciable number of mobile HD receivers into the market. I would argue that it does not, owing to the marque's low unit sales. The issue is number of functioning HD receivers in consumers' hands, not the profit margin per vehicle sold.
 
Savage said:
I certainly agree with you that the Ford specialty marques - Volvo, Aston, Jag, Rover - all have terrific value. I never claimed otherwise. And I likewise agree that Ford needs to get back to basics to get the company back on track and that the niche brands pose a likely management distraction from core issues.

But the point here was whether Volvo's making HD a standard or optional feature would get an appreciable number of mobile HD receivers into the market. I would argue that it does not, owing to the marque's low unit sales. The issue is number of functioning HD receivers in consumers' hands, not the profit margin per vehicle sold.
Click to expand...

You are right that Volvo is a low unit sales vehicle; it is also a trendsetter vehicle which gives it a few more points in my opinion. As often is found in new products, adoption can come from fringe players looking for uniqueness. When CD players started appearing in vehicles, they came from the top down and from fringe to mainstream.
 
DavidEduardo said:
You are right that Volvo is a low unit sales vehicle; it is also a trendsetter vehicle which gives it a few more points in my opinion. As often is found in new products, adoption can come from fringe players looking for uniqueness. When CD players started appearing in vehicles, they came from the top down and from fringe to mainstream.
Click to expand...

I have to admit, I haven't been in a Volvo for years, but I have owned three of them. They were very good cars, but the radios always were terrible sounding. The last one I had was so awful I threatened to return the car to the dealer for a refund. (It was the "Premium" version). I finally came to terms with the dealer on the issue, but I also never purchased another Volvo automobile because of the incident. A few years later I did purchase a couple of Volvo trucks which were great transporters, but the radios sucked in them too.

I hope their radios have improved under Ford. Or is a poor sounding radio a long-standing tradition with Volvo?
 
Radioman100 said:
BMW, Ford, Hyundai, Jaguar, Volvo
Click to expand...

... and Sirius will have factory-installed radios in 70 percent of Ford vehicles next year:

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2007/11/27/ford_boosting_sirius_radio_exposure/

How much longer will it take for HD Radio to have that level of penetration? Or even 5 percent?

Sirius was founded (as Satellite CD Radio Inc.) in May 1990, only a year before "Project Acorn" (USA Digital Radio) began, yet the satellite broadcasters have done a much better job of getting receivers on the market.

Did any of you read the article "Radio in 2017 Explored" in the latest issue of Radio World? Steve Davis of Clear Channel boldly predicts that, in just ten years, "Likely analog will be gone, so we'll no longer be operating in hybrid mode, meaning the issues of interference with analog will be behind us."

With all due respect to Mr. Davis, I don't understand how can he can afford to shut off analog within the next ten years when perhaps one percent of 2007 vehicles is equipped with IBOC receivers and the average age of a registered passenger car (2006 statistic) is 9.2 years? Are Clear Channel's executives planning to enact new "cutbacks", "downsize" the audience and "terminate" the analog listeners?
 
Play Freebird said:
Radioman100 said:
BMW, Ford, Hyundai, Jaguar, Volvo
Click to expand...

... and Sirius will have factory-installed radios in 70 percent of Ford vehicles next year:

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2007/11/27/ford_boosting_sirius_radio_exposure/

How much longer will it take for HD Radio to have that level of penetration? Or even 5 percent?

Sirius was founded (as Satellite CD Radio Inc.) in May 1990, only a year before "Project Acorn" (USA Digital Radio) began, yet the satellite broadcasters have done a much better job of getting receivers on the market.

Did any of you read the article "Radio in 2017 Explored" in the latest issue of Radio World? Steve Davis of Clear Channel boldly predicts that, in just ten years, "Likely analog will be gone, so we'll no longer be operating in hybrid mode, meaning the issues of interference with analog will be behind us."

With all due respect to Mr. Davis, I don't understand how can he can afford to shut off analog within the next ten years when perhaps one percent of 2007 vehicles is equipped with IBOC receivers and the average age of a registered passenger car (2006 statistic) is 9.2 years? Are Clear Channel's executives planning to enact new "cutbacks", "downsize" the audience and "terminate" the analog listeners?
Click to expand...

Get real. While Sirius may have been founded "only a year" before Project Acorn started, it started broadcasting with a full slate of channels in 2002. The very first HD stations started broadcasting in 2004, the first commercially available HD radios became available in late 2004 and the very first HD2 channels started appearing in late 2005.

The number of HD2 channels didn't start to grow at any significant rate until mid 2006.

Satellite radio is also extremely popular with truckers. I have no idea how many truckers there are in the USA, but I bet the number correlates very closely with the number of legitimate satellite radio subscribers, not the false numbers hyped with free subscriptions given with new cars. My parents got a free year of XM with their new Chevy last year. Did they renew? Nope. I listen to Dave Ramsey semi-regularly. He's one of the few talk hosts on satellite radio that actually says the caller is listening on XM or Sirius. Without exception, every time he takes a call from a satellite radio listener, that person is driving a truck.

Satellite radio has had truckers in their pocket since day one. Why not? It's a great service for truckers. If I was behind the wheel for 12 hours a day, driving between cities, I'd want one.

This comparison between satellite radio and HD Radio just isn't valid.
 
A couple of things, Radioman. Regarding the number of marques making HD available as options, Ford-Volvo-Jaguar are the same corporate family. BMW is a good premium market for HD, no question. And I'm aware of Hyundai's optioning of HD, but let me tell you my experience with that.

Rochester has two Hyundai stores, one of which is an advertiser. I did the "mystery shopper" thing (admittedly this was back in August) and asked about HD when I heard that the brand was going to offer it.
At Store A, the salesman denied that HD was available as an option. I insisted and was referred to the sales manager, who likewise said he never heard of HD radio. He suggested I buy a new car and have the aftermarket radio of my choice installed at a car stereo specialist.

At Store B, I was told that they'd "heard" of HD radio but didn't understand why it was being made available or why I would want it. I patiently explained the concept to the salesman and the manager. They asked, so what's the advantage? I said, "better sound, right?" The retort was, so it's digital, but when you're 60 miles down the road you'll still lose the local station just like if you were listening in analog, right? Furrowed brows indicated they were completely flummoxed as to why I would want such a thing. Whereupon they launched into a passionate pitch for a premium sound system featuring multi-CD changer, mp3 capability, iPod input and - "say it with me" - satellite radio. "You'll get over a hundred channels and the super-duper system will make regular AM or FM (analog) sound as good as anything you'd get from that 'high-def radio' thing," they confidently told me.

Obviously this is anecdotal. But I think most posters here could relate similar stories. And it's indicative of why HD radio is having such a hard time. There just has to be a more effective pitch, and a more relevant product relative to consumer expectations, if HD is going to fly.

As far as your assertion that "comparisons between satellite and HD radio aren't valid," I would beg to differ. HD is competing for consumer interest and disposable dollars with other entertainment vehicles which arguably offer more and align better with needs and expectations. I don't think anyone could seriously argue that satellite radio hasn't far outstripped HD terrestrial radio in terms of marketing effectiveness. And it's not just because sat-radio had a head start, either.
 
Savage said:
As far as your assertion that "comparisons between satellite and HD radio aren't valid," I would beg to differ. HD is competing for consumer interest and disposable dollars with other entertainment vehicles which arguably offer more and align better with needs and expectations. I don't think anyone could seriously argue that satellite radio hasn't far outstripped HD terrestrial radio in terms of marketing effectiveness. And it's not just because sat-radio had a head start, either.
Click to expand...

The other day, I was hanging out at the local Chevy dealer while they serviced my car. One of the sales people, who knew I ran the local radio station, came up and told me that XM was now standard equipment in the 2008 Chevy line. It figures, since GM has a large investment in XM. GM may be in the toilet, but they still sell a lot of cars and trucks.

I know for certain that the majority of people do not continue their satellite subscription when the free trial runs out, but if only 30% do, it eventually will be enough. Sure, the satellite companies are hemorrhaging money, but I'll bet that the Sirius-XM merger goes through and satellite radio will survive.

The point is, like it or not, satellite is a competitor to HD. If you do have satellite, there is probably nothing on HD that will interest you, at least not enough to get your check book out again. People really do keep their cars for a long time. If GM started offering HD as standard equipment on Monday, it will be a long time before there is enough penetration to make any difference. Of course, they are not offering HD right now, and every day that goes by gives other competing technologies a "leg up" on HD. Tempus Fuget.
 
Savage, you're old enough and smart enough to know the reactions you got from the Hyundai salesmen were a direct result of what they had on the lot to sell at that moment.

Surely you've bought a few cars in your life. When I bought my most recent vehicle, an SUV, the first dealership I shopped didn't have any in stock with 4 wheel drive. Instead of checking around and trying to locate a 4x4 for me, the salesman immediately tried to convince me why I didn't want or need the feature.

The next dealership had one, but it was dark green. Dark green may look fine on walls at the country club, but I hate it on cars. Again, that dealership really tried to sell me what they had in stock. He gave me some spiel about how difficult it was to find 4 wheel drives around here, much less ones in the color I wanted. Only after I made it abundantly clear that I would never buy a dark green vehicle and was leaving unless they could find what I wanted did the salesman relent and start checking other dealership inventories. Lo and behold, he found exactly what I was looking for just a few hours away.

I assure you, if the Hyundai dealership had any in stock, you would have heard a very different tune about HD Radio.
 
Thanks, Radioman, for noticing that I'm both old AND smart! And yes, I've bought quite a few vehicles over the years (as well as restoring old ones.)

You missed my point. Your experience with car salespeople trying to sell what they have in stock certainly represents a truism when it comes to the car-buying experience. Obviously they want what they've got on the lot, OFF their floorplan by midnight tonight, so the interest charges stop. But that's not what I'm talking about.

The difference between your and my experiences: your salesmen had HEARD of 4-wheel drive and of dark green and other colors. My point was, at two Hyundai stores featuring a brand HD proponents trumpet as spearheading a successful launch of the technical standard, nobody had HEARD of HD. And they weren't trying to sell me a car they had on the lot. They were clearly disinterested in HD radio as a saleable feature.

Clearly the sales orientation at these two dealerships was that when in came to audio entertainment options, that sat-radio and personal music-storage inputs were easier "sells." You know car salespeople. They follow the path of least resistance to get the sale closed and move on to the next prospect; "200 commercial free channels" is an easy concept to grasp, even if it's not literally true. And from many other accounts my experience appears typical when you're hunting for HD at the car dealership.

If we as an industry want showroom sales of HD to take off, the dealers offering the feature first have to understand and support it.
 
Chuck said:
The other day, I was hanging out at the local Chevy dealer while they serviced my car. One of the sales people, who knew I ran the local radio station, came up and told me that XM was now standard equipment in the 2008 Chevy line. It figures, since GM has a large investment in XM. GM may be in the toilet, but they still sell a lot of cars and trucks.

I know for certain that the majority of people do not continue their satellite subscription when the free trial runs out, but if only 30% do, it eventually will be enough. Sure, the satellite companies are hemorrhaging money, but I'll bet that the Sirius-XM merger goes through and satellite radio will survive.

The point is, like it or not, satellite is a competitor to HD. If you do have satellite, there is probably nothing on HD that will interest you, at least not enough to get your check book out again. People really do keep their cars for a long time. If GM started offering HD as standard equipment on Monday, it will be a long time before there is enough penetration to make any difference. Of course, they are not offering HD right now, and every day that goes by gives other competing technologies a "leg up" on HD. Tempus Fuget.
Click to expand...

I'll gladly concede that it will take a while for HD to replace most of the analog radios people use by attrition. To say otherwise would be foolish and overly optimistic, but I do believe it will eventually happen if iBiquity ever decides to get reasonable about the licensing fees they charge manufacturers. Since corporate radio has a huge stake in iBiquity, I think they'll eventually be forced to get reasonable with manufacturing interests by the major radio groups. Since manufacturers that don't even offer HD Radio are building radios right now using HD Radio chipsets with the HD feature disabled, it's really a no brainer as to why - money.

The reason comparing HD to satellite is invalid is the operational differences and cost. I mentioned a few posts ago the "free" XM radio my parents got with their latest new car, and the fact that they didn't choose to renew their XM subscription when the free one ran out. To listen to XM, my parents had to switch over to a new, totally unfamiliar way of tuning their radio. Even when they were getting it free, they didn't bother. This is much the same problem AM has right now. Many people, especially younger people, think of radio as FM radio and getting them to push that AM button seems difficult. This is one reason why successful AM news/talk outlets with monster signals are slowly migrating to FM ala KTAR Phoenix.

HD2 on FM integrates seamlessly with the radio experience people expect. You tune an HD radio the same way you tune a conventional radio, only more stations appear. If those new stations are playing something you want to hear, you listen. It's as simple as that.
 
Radioman100 said:
HD2 on FM integrates seamlessly with the radio experience people expect. You tune an HD radio the same way you tune a conventional radio, only more stations appear. If those new stations are playing something you want to hear, you listen. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...

You think so? My Chevy radio with XM has six banks of pre-sets, each with six buttons. Just push one, and a channel comes up almost instantaneously. Otherwise you can spin the "tuning" knob, just like a conventional radio. My Sangean HDT-1 takes more effort than that because it pauses on each station for 7-8 seconds waiting for the HD signal to buffer. I know that 8 seconds doesn't sound like much, but when you are tuning the radio, it seems like an eternity. It seems even longer when each channel is something you have no interest in listening to.
 
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