• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Commercial Count

S

Santa fe

Almost everyone agrees that the amount of commercials on radio today can be overwhelming.
But a recent study published on Barrett claims he counted an average of 10 and a half minutes an hour, 6a to 7p, on stations he studied.
That doesn't seem possible. The old FCC max was 18 minutes and I remember when WMMS ballyhooed they were allowing no more than 8 an hour.
He also observed usually 2 stop sets an hour of roughly 5 minutes each. When I listen to old airchecks from the "classic" era of 60 years ago, I noticed they often played a few commercials after every song. It was WIXY I recall that was one of the first here to promote plàying two or more records in a row, the famous WIXY triple play.
So are stations playing 22 minutes an hour or what?
 
Santa fe said:
Almost everyone agrees that the amount of commercials on radio today can be overwhelming.
But a recent study published on Barrett claims he counted an average of 10 and a half minutes an hour, 6a to 7p, on stations he studied.
That doesn't seem possible. The old FCC max was 18 minutes and I remember when WMMS ballyhooed they were allowing no more than 8 an hour.
Click to expand...
The FCC would raise questions during license renewal if any hours in the composite week (see footnote below) exceeded 18 minutes. But if there was a valid reason like political season or even a pre-holiday Friday where there was some excess, they generally allowed for renewal. So, there was no hard and fast 18 minute limit.
Santa fe said:
He also observed usually 2 stop sets an hour of roughly 5 minutes each. When I listen to old airchecks from the "classic" era of 60 years ago, I noticed they often played a few commercials after every song. It was WIXY I recall that was one of the first here to promote plàying two or more records in a row, the famous WIXY triple play.
Click to expand...
Most of the stopset positioning has to do with the way ratings are done. The PPM seems to dictate just 2 stops.
Santa fe said:
So are stations playing 22 minutes an hour or what?
Click to expand...
No. Most successful ones are running 13 to 14 minutes, though.

Footnote COMPOSITE WEEK from Google AI

The concept of a "composite week" was historically used by the FCC for broadcast license renewals but was phased out in the 1980s
. It was a tool to review a broadcast station's programming to ensure it was serving the public interest.

How the composite week worked
  • Purpose: The FCC would randomly select a "composite week" from the preceding license term. This week consisted of seven days, with each day of the week (e.g., Monday, Tuesday) being a randomly selected date from different weeks or quarters.
  • Function: Broadcast licensees would have to submit a detailed log of all their programming for that specific composite week. This allowed the FCC to review a representative sample of the station's performance in categories like news, public affairs, and local programming.
  • Rationale: The FCC used this information to verify that a station was providing programming that served its local community. Failure to do so could jeopardize a station's license renewal
 
Last edited:
RadioGuy1864 said:
10-12 minutes is a long stop set. I understand the economic realities, but that's a lot of spots to get through for the listeners.
Click to expand...

Everybody knows and understands that. For PDs, it's a necessary evil, because they want to get paid. There is a lot of research done on that kind of thing. The reaction is different in talk vs music. The current view in music is it's not the length of the break, but the break itself that's objectionable. That's why a lot of current music stations do one long break an hour. But the break length is different in talk. I think if you listen at night, the breaks are shorter because there are fewer advertisers who want that time.

But all of us who work in radio know that listeners hate the breaks, and the fact is there's nothing we can do about it. It's the only way we have to make money. Unless you're willing to give me your credit card number.
 
skiwest said:
As soon as the station I'm listening to goes to commercials, I switch to another station knowing I won't be missing anything for quite a while.
Click to expand...

That tactic only works until all the stations you listen to schedule their stopsets at the same approximate time to maximize PPM impact (see David's post earlier).

Sorry, but as I am fond of saying, we are in the advertising business. It's how we stay on the air and it is necessary for us to counter any tactics such as you describe to avoid hearing our sponsor's spots. As BigA said, this is how we provide the entertainment programming free of charge to you.

TANSTAAFL. (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.)
 
Yabadabado1 said:
You have a conflict of interest. You play his "Cruisin' The Decades" show. 😁 [Good choice, by the way.]
Click to expand...

not only that, but I and KSKO had a hand in it going into international syndication.
 
Santa fe said:
Almost everyone agrees that the amount of commercials on radio today can be overwhelming.
Click to expand...

In another thread, someone posted a log from one hour of programming in LA from 55 years ago. Count the breaks and spots:

Here's what aired in the noon-1:00 p.m. hour with Charlie Tuna on KHJ February 27, 1970:

LEGAL ID (12:00 Noon)
Creedence Clearwater Revival-Proud Mary
Bobby Sherman-Easy Come, Easy Go

BREAK 1:
Burger King (LIVE COPY)
KHJ "Heavy Wheels" Promo (KHJ giving away a 1970 Pontiac Firebird filled with cash)

Simon & Garfunkel-Keep The Customer Satisfied

BREAK 2:
Sears Radial Tires
PSA: International Poster Show at California Museum of Science and Industry (LIVE COPY)

Dean Martin-Everybody Loves Somebody

BREAK 3:
Ford Motor Company Dealer Service Departments
WEATHER (LIVE)
Thom McAn Shoes (LIVE COPY-:10)

Jackson 5-ABC

BREAK 4:
Kentucky Fried Chicken

Elvis Presley-Kentucky Rain (LIVE "Heavy Wheels" promo over intro)

BREAK 5:
London Britches (local clothing store chain) (LIVE COPY)
Joseph Magnin

Marilee Rush & The Turnabouts-Angel of the Morning
Edison Lighthouse-Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes
LEGAL ID (12:30)
Jr. Walker & The All-Stars: Gotta Hold On To This Feeling

BREAK 6:
Kinney Shoes (LIVE COPY)
Delaney & Bonnie in Concert at Santa Monica Civic

Perez Prado-Patricia (LIVE "Heavy Wheels" promo over intro)

BREAK 7:
Burger King (LIVE COPY)

Three Dog Night-Celebrate

BREAK 8:
Robert Hall Clothiers (LIVE COPY)
PSA: Venice Free Clinic (LIVE COPY)
Friends of Distinction-Love or Let Me Be Lonely

BREAK 9:
Dodge Challenger
WEATHER (LIVE)
Miller High Life Beer

Bob Kuban & The In-Men: The Cheater

BREAK 10:
CONTAC Cold Relief
Thom McAn Shoes (LIVE COPY)

Vic Dana-If I Never Knew Your Name

BREAK 11
Zestabs Chewable Vitamins
Tashan Super Skin Creme

Jaggerz: The Rapper

BREAK 12
Jeans West (local clothing chain) (LIVE COPY)

Little Anthony & The Imperials: Hurt So Bad

LEGAL ID (1:00 PM)

This is just one hour. Sixteen records, 12 commercial breaks, 18 pieces of commercial copy.

Keep in mind that at the time, most commercials were :60 each. You think there are too many commercials now?
 
And that variety of music! Vic Dana and Perez Prado alongside Creedence and Junior Walker! That's back when Top 40 was really the 40 best selling records no matter how they clashed. Doing that today would be called crazy, innovative or non-commercial.
I'd like to see someone research what KHJ charged per minute, adjusted for inflation, then compare it to what stations like that charge today. Back then, they say everybody made money, KHJ, RKO, Charlie Tuna, the sales staff, even the receptionist.Today to hear them cry nobody is making any money in broadcasting. At least not those who are crying!
 
Santa fe said:
I'd like to see someone research what KHJ charged per minute, adjusted for inflation, then compare it to what stations like that charge today.
Click to expand...

A lot has changed since 1970. Back then there were fewer radio stations, and really only a handful per city with any audience. That situation has changed greatly. It started to change in the 1980s, which is why a lot of radio owners sold their stations. Take a look at the names of the sponsors. Very few of them buy radio advertising today. The audience has been diluted by the number of radio stations and other options available. As a result, the amount the stations can charge is lower. In the meantime, due to inflation, the costs have continued to rise. That combination is why radio is where it is now.
 


Back
Top Bottom