As time has marched on, I've gotten away from listening to Metal music as much as I used to, although when I hear it, whether it is Melodic Metal, Death, Speed or Thrash I like it, but there's no big desire to seek it out. So, I'm a bit out of the loop and wonder how close Active Rock stations ever got or get to playing Death Metal in their regular format... not specialty shows. I would think they wouldn't have played any of the so-called underground Metal bands like Obituary, Cannibal Corpse or even Biohazard and Piledriver, but did they-- or do they -- dabble in Slipnot. Now Slipnot is not Death Metal, but they can be abrasively hard. I would think there's been room for bands like Pantera. Did they ever play any Slayer which is Death Metal in my book thanks to the Satanist-based and anti-Christianity lyrics often found in their compositions. A classic of the Death Metal genre is Deicide. When we're talking Death Metal, Megadeth and Metallica do not apply. Iron Maiden is on the melodic side of things even though they have been credited by some as the door openers to Death and other modern Metal sounds.
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Commercial Death Metal?
- Thread starter johnbasalla
- Start date
johnbasalla said:As time has marched on, I've gotten away from listening to Metal music as much as I used to, although when I hear it, whether it is Melodic Metal, Death, Speed or Thrash I like it, but there's no big desire to seek it out. So, I'm a bit out of the loop and wonder how close Active Rock stations ever got or get to playing Death Metal in their regular format... not specialty shows. I would think they wouldn't have played any of the so-called underground Metal bands like Obituary, Cannibal Corpse or even Biohazard and Piledriver, but did they-- or do they -- dabble in Slipnot. Now Slipnot is not Death Metal, but they can be abrasively hard. I would think there's been room for bands like Pantera. Did they ever play any Slayer which is Death Metal in my book thanks to the Satanist-based and anti-Christianity lyrics often found in their compositions. A classic of the Death Metal genre is Deicide. When we're talking Death Metal, Megadeth and Metallica do not apply. Iron Maiden is on the melodic side of things even though they have been credited by some as the door openers to Death and other modern Metal sounds.
I've never heard anything that could be remotely described as "death metal" on any station in Pittsburgh or Atlanta. Those are the only cities whose radio stations I am familiar with. I'm aware of more than a few death metal bands performing in the local music scenes in both cities, but they tend to attract something of a small but enthusiastic (some might say "rabid") fan following.
I remember reading about a station in Myrtle Beach, SC called 93.5 Asylum which lasted only a year. They were more extreme than most active rockers. But they had a lousy signal. They went soft AC/oldies in 2000 and then simulcast country and now they're Spanish.
Also, this isn't about radio, but did anyone see "The Good Guys" on Fox last Friday? That one bad guy had really extreme musical taste.
I thought of another station. I don't remember what it was called then, but in the 90s WXRC Charlotte, NC was playing a lot of songs where the vocalists sounded like they were coming straight out of ... you know.
In regular rotation, the heaviest thing I've heard would probably be some Pantera. As for other metal or otherwise obscure heavy songs I've heard on commercial radio over the years:
Number of The Beast- Maiden (on Halloween- Satanic references)
Clean My Wounds- COC
Balls to the Wall- Accept
Ace Of Spades- Motorhead
Revolution- Judas Priest (back when Angel of Retribution came out)
Not sure about Hatebreed. And, with bands like Slipknot and Killswitch Engage, their heaviest stuff never got much airplay. Also, I never heard Black Label Society on rock stations before "Stillborn" came out.
Number of The Beast- Maiden (on Halloween- Satanic references)
Clean My Wounds- COC
Balls to the Wall- Accept
Ace Of Spades- Motorhead
Revolution- Judas Priest (back when Angel of Retribution came out)
Not sure about Hatebreed. And, with bands like Slipknot and Killswitch Engage, their heaviest stuff never got much airplay. Also, I never heard Black Label Society on rock stations before "Stillborn" came out.
Iron Maiden's "Number of The Beast" is probably their most used tune on radio.
No, I'd say "Run To The Hills" is Maiden's most played song on the radio.
I have never heard it, but from what I've heard Rebel Radio in Illinois [might reach Chicago, not sure] is about the hardest-metal station these days. They mention Slayer and Pantera and others on their website.
www.rebelradio.com
www.rebelradio.com
I stand corrected. "Run To The Hills" definitely wins as Iron Maiden's most played song. I forgot about it.
Almost none of the band's mention are considered by musicians to be "Death Metal". They are Heavy Metal. They fit into some of the other metal music sub-genres, but by the standards musicians use to classify music into pigeon-hole genres (which most musicians refuse to do because it is pretty stupid), they aren't death metal.
Of course, even the musicians who do (reluctantly) accept having music forced into stupid little pigeonholes insist on classifying songs, not entire bands. The members of a band might describe their latest album as having a death metal song, a melodic metal song or two, a few goth metal songs, a plain heavy metal song, and maybe even a techno-metal song. But if you talk to members of a band and attempt to force them to pigeonhole themselves into some narrow, restrictive category, you'll not get the polite answers you might expect.
Probably the best litmus test to separate people who actually know anything about music from people working in radio who simply treat music as "product" is to ask for a definition of a particular style of music. A musician will use songs as examples to make a point, a suit who doesn't really understand music would use bands as examples.
I recall one interview with Sharon Den Adel, lead singer of the Dutch Band Within Temptation. She joked about the fact that their label attempted to cast them as "Gothic Metal", which the band thought was ridiculous. But, to honor the label's requests, she started wearing heavier eye-liner.
Of course, even the musicians who do (reluctantly) accept having music forced into stupid little pigeonholes insist on classifying songs, not entire bands. The members of a band might describe their latest album as having a death metal song, a melodic metal song or two, a few goth metal songs, a plain heavy metal song, and maybe even a techno-metal song. But if you talk to members of a band and attempt to force them to pigeonhole themselves into some narrow, restrictive category, you'll not get the polite answers you might expect.
Probably the best litmus test to separate people who actually know anything about music from people working in radio who simply treat music as "product" is to ask for a definition of a particular style of music. A musician will use songs as examples to make a point, a suit who doesn't really understand music would use bands as examples.
I recall one interview with Sharon Den Adel, lead singer of the Dutch Band Within Temptation. She joked about the fact that their label attempted to cast them as "Gothic Metal", which the band thought was ridiculous. But, to honor the label's requests, she started wearing heavier eye-liner.
I understand where Talk-Dude is coming from, and can appreciate the viewpoint, however I would not agree that those who "pigeon-hole" music do so because they don't really know about it. Being in radio, there's no doubt that I often listen to things with a 'fit-doesn't fit' a format viewpoint. My definition of Death Metal is music or groups whose primary output are songs about death, destruction and evil, particularly those with satanist lyrics. Add to that growling, gutteral vocals and you have the whole package. Yes, I can see how artists don't want to be pigeonholed, however I don't see how you can't "pigeonhole" groups like Bathory and Deicide when that's all they ever sing about.
johnbasalla said:I understand where Talk-Dude is coming from, and can appreciate the viewpoint, however I would not agree that those who "pigeon-hole" music do so because they don't really know about it. Being in radio, there's no doubt that I often listen to things with a 'fit-doesn't fit' a format viewpoint. My definition of Death Metal is music or groups whose primary output are songs about death, destruction and evil, particularly those with satanist lyrics. Add to that growling, gutteral vocals and you have the whole package. Yes, I can see how artists don't want to be pigeonholed, however I don't see how you can't "pigeonhole" groups like Bathory and Deicide when that's all they ever sing about.
Your definition is also meaningless to a musician, and, from a musician's perspective, inaccurate.
Well, even if it may be meaningless to a musician, since musicians are not the only people in the world, my definition may be meanigful to those who are not musicians. If musicians are not willing to categorize their music, others will. In explaining the sound of a group or their recorded output to a person who has not heard them/it, saying their music cannot be categorized may lead the other person to think it must be some wierd, unlistenable stuff. It's hard to turn people on to music if you can't give them an idea of what it sounds like. So the categorizations do serve a purpose. Of course, this is predicated on using the explanation to encourage them to listen in the first place.
johnbasalla said:Well, even if it may be meaningless to a musician, since musicians are not the only people in the world, my definition may be meanigful to those who are not musicians. If musicians are not willing to categorize their music, others will. In explaining the sound of a group or their recorded output to a person who has not heard them/it, saying their music cannot be categorized may lead the other person to think it must be some wierd, unlistenable stuff. It's hard to turn people on to music if you can't give them an idea of what it sounds like. So the categorizations do serve a purpose. Of course, this is predicated on using the explanation to encourage them to listen in the first place.
What I was referring to was the fact that you made no mention of whether the music was in a major or minor key, whether it relied on pentatonic or diatonic scales, whether or not the "devil's third" (tritone) was used, etc. Many classical operas were about death, destruction, and evil, and many death metal songs make no reference to Satan. Many old blues singers used growling, guttural vocals.
There is a much, much easier way in the 21st century to explain the sound of a particular song besides inaccurate word descriptions. Just play it for them. I'll grant you that when you're taking about the major categories, like Rock, Pop, Hip Hop, R&B, Country, etc., a verbal description is sufficient. But when you start going down two or more levels of taxonomic classification, then you either need to be precise & accurate or just let the person hear a sample. You can get away with a vague verbal description of metal as a sub-category of rock, but beyond that, attempting to describe one particular type of metal so that the person hearing you can tell the difference between death metal and gothic metal requires a much higher degree of precision and accuracy.
Can you honestly say that based on your description of death metal, no one would hear a song that was gothic metal or industrial metal or techno metal or thrash metal or speed metal or metalcore or black metal or power metal or doom metal and mistake it for death metal?
It is always best to play it for people which will let the music describe itself, but sometimes one is not in a position to play it, such as while at work.
In reference to Death Metal, the differences with Industrial or Techno metal are recognizable. However, Black and Doom are part of Death Metal as far as I'm concerned, or just another name for the same thing. I've seen some promotional material that refers to groups who are rabidly anti-Christian and sing about satan as "Black Metal". Topic and lyrical content may make for some of the names as there are Death Metal sounding groups that say they are Christians. Goth Metal can easily be mistaken for Death Metal due to the horror movie-like subject matter. While it is true that some Blues singers used gutteral vocals, I've never heard them growling like in Metal.
In reference to Death Metal, the differences with Industrial or Techno metal are recognizable. However, Black and Doom are part of Death Metal as far as I'm concerned, or just another name for the same thing. I've seen some promotional material that refers to groups who are rabidly anti-Christian and sing about satan as "Black Metal". Topic and lyrical content may make for some of the names as there are Death Metal sounding groups that say they are Christians. Goth Metal can easily be mistaken for Death Metal due to the horror movie-like subject matter. While it is true that some Blues singers used gutteral vocals, I've never heard them growling like in Metal.
johnbasalla said:It is always best to play it for people which will let the music describe itself, but sometimes one is not in a position to play it, such as while at work.
In reference to Death Metal, the differences with Industrial or Techno metal are recognizable. However, Black and Doom are part of Death Metal as far as I'm concerned, or just another name for the same thing. I've seen some promotional material that refers to groups who are rabidly anti-Christian and sing about satan as "Black Metal". Topic and lyrical content may make for some of the names as there are Death Metal sounding groups that say they are Christians. Goth Metal can easily be mistaken for Death Metal due to the horror movie-like subject matter. While it is true that some Blues singers used gutteral vocals, I've never heard them growling like in Metal.
As far as you are concerned. I see. So, when were you elected to be in charge of the Commission to Define Musical Genres? Or is that an appointed position?
I use descriptions of music to make it reasonable to be able to explain it to others.
johnbasalla said:I use descriptions of music to make it reasonable to be able to explain it to others.
That sounds like a good idea. Now, if you just take it the next step and make your descriptions accurate and meaningful, you'd be accomplishing something.
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