Commercials on the Internet

[SuperRadioFan]

I don't recall seeing anyone address this subject... Can anyone tell me why some over the air radio stations that stream broadcast their regular commercials online ... (WDJO Cincinnati for example since I've been listening to their great 128kbps stream) while many other stations insert PSAs and/or other commercials that don't get aired on their OTA signal (KOLA Riverside-San Bernardino, CA for example). I realize some of this might have to do with ASCAP, but can you explain the inconsistancy?

 

[Starbucks]

You pretty much answered your own question. Over 5 years ago, voiceover people for commercial agencies complained that they should receive royalties or be paid for their voices being used on the internet streaming. Even though you the listener never wanted to hear commercials on line in the first place, the stations themselves had too pay them fortheir services that would simulcast....so they had to take off their streams unless they found fillers or filters for them. So those good old PSA's work and.........don't forget to put the zip code on your letter. Paid for by the government.

 

[jcolletta275]

By the way, that would be AFTRA, not ASCAP, that represented VO talent in that move.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

By the way, that would be AFTRA, not ASCAP, that represented VO talent in that move.

Thanks all those letters get jumbled up in my head, I thought I may have had it wrong

To Starbucks, I only answered part of my question... No one yet has explained the INCONSISTANCY!! Why some do and some don't??

 

[Starbucks]

You might need to clairify a bit of why some do and some don't. You can put anything on the spot break as long as it's been paid individually if that's what you mean. The same spot can be played or simulcast as long as it's been paid for air and internet only. Otherwise, play a PSA or a 3:00 minute song.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

You might need to clairify a bit of why some do and some don't. You can put anything on the spot break as long as it's been paid individually if that's what you mean. The same spot can be played or simulcast as long as it's been paid for air and internet only. Otherwise, play a PSA or a 3:00 minute song.

In my two examples at the beginning, KOLA radio (99.9 FM) in their online stream inserts PSAs and other promo ads for the station itself as well as a few commercials. It is totally different from what you hear over the air. On a side note, I own an agency and have had my many different clients' spots run on KOLA for the last 8 years so while I am concerned they are not on the Internet stream it's no big deal.

OTOH the Internet stream of WDJO Oldies 1160 Florence, Ky/Cincinnati, as far as I can tell (I live in Calif so I can't be 1000% sure heh heh) is identical to their over the air programming. When they go into a stopset, I hear all the local advertisers and they sure sound like what's going on OTA.

Other radio stations that also stream are inconsistent - some have "fillers" between programming while others apparently stream exactly what's on OTA including all the commercials.

So again I ask why the inconsistancy? Some stations do and some don't stream their regular commercials.

Does AFTRA have anything to say about this or does the organization even know?

BTW as an advertiser I've never been asked if I want the option (at extra cost) for my spots to run on the Internet either simulcast or at times other than when they are over the air.

 

[dbdigital]

While I'm aware of the AFTRA agreement concerning talent being paid an additional fee for web streaming, what I am unclear about is if this only applies to AFTRA signatories or to all VO artists?

If it's only for AFTRA members then that would also explain why some local ads are run on a radio station's web stream.

db

 

[4dude]

Its stupid as anything!!!

NO ONE LISTENING TO A STREAM FROM 1000s OF MILES AWAY IS GOING TO GIVE ANY BUSINESS $$$!!!!!

Its all about $$$ and its stupid as hell.....

THE USA IS THE BIGGEST SPAM GIVERS IN THE WORLD!!!!!

 

[Starbucks]

I see exactly what you mean Super Radio....local or studio commercials you can simulcast...it's those agencies or talented V.O. guys for national syndicate broadcast were the problems.

 

[Bongwater]

Its stupid as anything!!!

NO ONE LISTENING TO A STREAM FROM 1000s OF MILES AWAY IS GOING TO GIVE ANY BUSINESS $$$!!!!!

Its all about $$$ and its stupid as hell.....

THE USA IS THE BIGGEST SPAM GIVERS IN THE WORLD!!!!!

Sometimes local ads add local character to the stream. Not a fan of commercials really, but nobody listens to a internet stream from a terrestrial commercial broadcaster for just "the better mix" of the same Taylor Swift/Lifehouse/Ingrid Michaelson songs and voicetracked jocks you can hear everywhere else alone. For the homesick (usually the biggest listeners of terrestrial commercial broadcasters on the web), it's a connection when they hear an ad for a local business they remember (and I'm not talking about Wal-Mart or Macy's necessarily), just the Ma & Pas and regional chains they remember. Especially if they have an online sales department. (I know of a few people who buy products from the online catalogs of their hometown businesses as well as listen to their hometown station. Yeah, they should move back you might think, but when you're in the military, in a decent paying career that takes you everywhere or going to a university on a scholarship, well, that could be a LITTLE complicated....)

I'd rather hear local commercials than maudlin PSAs, ads from faceless dot-coms or dead air on an online stream. I'd like it to sound no different than if I was right there listening to the radio station as it really sounds there.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Bong, you have really nailed it correctly!! I couldn't agree more!! Thanks

 

[RadioFanBoy]

To answer the question as to why the inconsistency; it all comes down to the streaming provider the station uses. (Stream The World; Akamai; Streamaudio; etc.) They are the ones with the "ad-sertation" technololgy and software. If their system is really good, and works properly, you'll hear the PSA's and "web-only" content every time without fail. If their system mis-fires or breaks down a lot, you'll get dead air, PSAs while the music is playing OTA, or the system will just break down altogether and the OTA spots will go out onto the stream. Then its up to the webmaster to bitch to the streaming provider and ask why the station is shelling out so much every month for somthing that doesn't work. Finally, if your a mom and pop station and the local geek squard store down the street is doing your streaming, chances are they have no such software to replace the OTA commercials with and since you are a mom and pop station in a mid-size or small market, AFTRA is not going to bother with you, least they come off looking like some sort of bully.

Hope that answers the question.

 

[i_work_in_radio]

There's a new company called TargetSpot that helps internet broadcasters monetize their streams, whether they're internet-only stations or terrestrial stations. Basically, they sell a percentage of a radio station's streaming commercial inventory. Makes a lot of sense for station operators who are wasting that commercial time on their internet streams instead of selling it. And you'll never hear commercials for out-of-town advertisers because they can set up geographic parameters. Advertisers do everything on TargetSpot's website... create commercials, set budgets, set up targeting, generate reports, etc. All the station owner has to do is collect the money from the commercials. I can't imagine why anyone with an internet radio stream wouldn't take advantage of this. Their website is www.targetspot.com.

 

[Countrykev]

To clarify this thread even further, because I had to do a lot of research before our station started streaming.

It was AFTRA that pitched a fit about not being fairly compensated. The ad agencies told the radio stations to stop streaming the ads or they will have to pay what the voice over people wanted. However, they did eventually settle on a fair rate. In the meantime, however, technology made it easier to block out the ads. Some streaming providers will block the ads for you, in addition new automation software, such as Google's Scott Studios can substitute ads going to the stream.

In larger markets many of the voice talents belong to AFTRA, or receive ads from agencies that have AFTRA members voice spots. It's a lot easier to not deal with the hassle of weeding out which spot you can and can't play. So the vast majority of the large markets block their ads.

Smaller markets, like where I am, doesn't worry so much about that. Most of our ads are voiced in-house or are flagged by the network as not suitable for stream if need be.

 

[Tom Wells]

I too would rather have the stream content identical to the air content.
I would even prefer that AMs stream from an off-air tuner, where I could hear thunderstorm static if it were local to the station.
Anything that makes the product more like real radio. How about some 5 Hz intermodulated 10khz whine?
My podcasts are produced in this way, recorded from a real radio with continuous analog tuning and 15khz response .

The most recent:

http://thomasjwells.podOmatic.com/entry/2008-01-11T22_21_31-08_00

I'm not in love with commercials, but radio wouldn't be the same without them, so I put them in my podcasts.
Good spots are part of the art of radio.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Just catching up as I was on vacation a few weeks ago... Mrs SuperRadioFan took me on a week to Napa Valley... it was my birthday which BTW was Jan 16th when the two excellent posts above were made. Tom, nice touch about keeping it "real" and I agree I LIKE to hear webstreams of out of town stations play their regular commercials making them sound like I'm in town listening on the radio dial instead of off a computer. I do have a device (Kima Wireless made by US Robotics) that transmits any computer audio via a small transmitter on 88.1 or 88.3 FM which can be picked up by a nearby radio.

And thanks to Kev for the best explanation to my original question. It does make sense.

Props to all for the responses!!

 

[V.Riley]

There's a new company called TargetSpot that helps internet broadcasters monetize their streams, whether they're internet-only stations or terrestrial stations. Basically, they sell a percentage of a radio station's streaming commercial inventory. Makes a lot of sense for station operators who are wasting that commercial time on their internet streams instead of selling it. And you'll never hear commercials for out-of-town advertisers because they can set up geographic parameters. Advertisers do everything on TargetSpot's website... create commercials, set budgets, set up targeting, generate reports, etc. All the station owner has to do is collect the money from the commercials. I can't imagine why anyone with an internet radio stream wouldn't take advantage of this. Their website is www.targetspot.com.

TargetSpot looks like the company to do business with, they even acquired Ronning Lipset last month. However, Mike Dudas at TargetSpot told me "Unfortunately we are not currently able to integrate with Shoutcast broadcasters. We are looking to develop an integration with that platform by late 2008/early 2009. I will reach out to you at that point to discuss a possible integration."

So hopefully this is coming very soon.

 

[Carmine5]

To clarify this thread even further, because I had to do a lot of research before our station started streaming.

It was AFTRA that pitched a fit about not being fairly compensated. The ad agencies told the radio stations to stop streaming the ads or they will have to pay what the voice over people wanted. However, they did eventually settle on a fair rate. In the meantime, however, technology made it easier to block out the ads. Some streaming providers will block the ads for you, in addition new automation software, such as Google's Scott Studios can substitute ads going to the stream.

In larger markets many of the voice talents belong to AFTRA, or receive ads from agencies that have AFTRA members voice spots. It's a lot easier to not deal with the hassle of weeding out which spot you can and can't play. So the vast majority of the large markets block their ads.

Smaller markets, like where I am, doesn't worry so much about that. Most of our ads are voiced in-house or are flagged by the network as not suitable for stream if need be.

Here is an article that makes a little clearer the matter of licensing spots using AFTRA talent:

http://www.rbr.com/features/ideas-working-now/jennifer_lane_internet_radio_and_the_aftra_issue.html

Note this sentence in particular:

"The right to use the commercial on the Internet is compulsory and the advertiser or agency must pay a license fee for new media use. It's very simple now to obtain that license."

So according to this statement it is the advertiser or agency who pays the fee, not the broadcaster.

C5